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I want to try diving Falmouth next week (on a light mix). According to the report on this site, it appears to be in fairly good condition. But the cave condition report also says "closed to access". Is it closed to cave diving? It certainly has easy access to the spring.
No one had a problem with us diving it last year (or was it the year before).
There's no sign indicating Falmouth is closed to diving, and I've been in a few times this year without problem. However, several weeks ago I was at the nearby Suwannee River State Park, chatting with the ranger, and when I mentioned I was heading over to Falmouth for a dive he said something like "Isn't that closed to diving? I thought they shut it down when that guy drowned last year." Honestly, I'm not sure what the real story is, or where to seek an authoritative answer.
p.s. The line is in pretty good shape between there and Cathedral now, with poly running most of the way and superfluous lines removed. There's a few spots where it's buried for 10ft or less that could stand to be patched, but not until you get out around Aquarius and beyond.
Should be open with viz around 20ft +/- I recommend taking a lot of gap reels since their are sections of line that are buried that are longer than a person's reach.Quote:
Originally Posted by jpdiver
Falmouth is a County Park and is not open for cave diving. However there are rarely people there and the locals just ignore us. Mid week when less people use the area is best. In the winter you can pretty much just go if the gate is open. Don't cause an incident and you won't have any problems. It's a lot like Charles Spring, no one really cares so they don't make an issue. Todd Leonard and his crew just repaired the line between Falmouth and Cathedral. They are working in that area now so please allow them to work if they are there. We have relined the Cathedral System from the river to the Horror Hole. We are all trying to meet in the middle and make a connection into Edwards. We hope to make the system a little safer with this effort and improve the knowledge of this wonderful cave system. Cindy Butler Karst Terrain Explorations.
When we went we checked the sign and asked the ranger and both said: go ahead.
How about a dive report when you're done, I'm heading up that way in a couple of weeks.Quote:
Originally Posted by jpdiver
Bill Rotella
I dove Falmouth last week, and the visibility was closer to 40 feet. It's real dark in there like manatee, and it eats up your light, but while my buddy was closing a 3 foot gap in the line, I hovered up near the ceiling, and I could see him perfectly from way up at the ceiling. We were diving 32%, so we had to turn the dive on depth. But the vis was suprisingly clear.
That is good news because it sure has been needed to be done. I hope the line can be placed off the floor so keep it from getting under mounds of silt from flooding events.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cindy
When I read Gary's post about this area being open to diving I emailed the man in Charge of Public Use of the spring. I knew what Gary said was wrong but I wanted to check and make sure so I emailed Mr McCook. He just emailed me back. Falmouth is NOT open for either open water diving or cave diving. If you dive there do so with the understanding that it is against the wishes of SRWM and you can be arrested for trespassing. Now it has not happened yet but if someone does say something please just leave and don't give them a hard time. They don't have a ranger at the current time. The ranger Gary spoke to either was lost or a trash guy. They have the Sherrif patrol the area and now and then the DEP people. You won't get away with the open waterway argument there.
Cindy Butler
Wow!
Well it wasn't the trash guy. Either things were different then (over a year ago) or the guy was "misinformed".
Well, what ever he was, he was wrong. I am not saying if people should dive there or not but I want everyone to know that there can be consequences. What people decide is their choice. I just want them to have the correct information. Cindy
Now that we have the information, what do we do to get them to open this spring to cavedivers?Quote:
Originally Posted by Cindy
There seems to be so much effort on other springs, that ones like this, silver glen, rock springs, Apopka Blue, etc get left behind for only a select few who can apply for permits...
Just a thought... Wondering why efforts for caves farther way from "cave country" are higher on the list then those in the backyard of a couple of agencies... :?:
Hey Tegg, I think with Falmouth, Anderson, Ruth, etc. , and other lands owned by Suwannee River Management the people in charge have always just ignored us. Of course we will have to manage to get Springs open at some point to legal diving but it's not a high priority issue right now. Part of the problem is that right now people are diving at the sites so no one really wants to rock the boat. They (SRWM) also does not have the manpower to open sites to the public where they would have to check certifications, get waivers etc. as most of these sites are undeveloped. None of us can really help them pay for that so as long as possible we are all just diving and keeping quiet. What would work the best would be for one of the agencies to "pull a permit" and take care of the paperwork themselves. The modern busy world is fast encroaching on these little sites and at some point we (meaning cave divers) will have to do something. Till then all anyone can do is make sure they are not in anyones way, be polite and leave things clean. I just want the facts straight. People can decide for themselves how to handle the situation. Cindy :)
sounds like they arent really caring about people diving on there sites as of right now. so how about we drop the conversation about it and leave it as "if you dive it, keep it to yourself." which i know is damn near impossible for most people on this forum...but at least its worth a shot. :roll:Quote:
Originally Posted by Cindy
We are talking about it because it was posted on this forum. If you go there and get your bu.. busted I don't want to listen to you or anyone else whine about I heard that it was open on the Cave Divers Forum. If you don't want to read what people have to say then click on the TV. Cindy
When we dove it a couple of weeks ago, we had no idea it was closed for diving. There was no signs indicating as such, and it's just a small park, and there was no ranger around. We had a great dive, took our time breaking down our gear, and only encountered one person all afternoon.
I dont whine about much, and when I do I dont do it on the internetQuote:
Originally Posted by Cindy
Gee....I got no opinion about the above thread other than it's interesting because I was planning to dive Falmouth soon. I thought it would be a great dive despite the limited visibility. I noticed that some official online State/County Park sites state that diving is allowed at Falmouth.
Perhaps some things are better left alone?
I could never see Falmouth being a high traffic area anyway. It's not for the casual diver.
Oh well, I do have one comment. Cindy does have a permit for diving the area. She's probably most up to date on SRWM diving policy. Probably more so than most SRWM employees. :?
I hope that now you know it is a "closed" site that you will no longer plan on diving there.Quote:
Originally Posted by Angie Reim
It would be a travesty to have a CDF moderator doing sneak dives at a well known closed location.
I hope all the cavedivers on this site who have now been informed of the closed access will simply be the "good cavediver" and follow the rules.
I would hate for a bad light to be cast on cavedivers because some people want to break the rules...
Just a thought... Wondering why efforts for caves farther way from "cave country" are higher on the list then those in the backyard of a couple of agencies... :?:[/quote]
Maybe so that there are places open all over since both agencies are National. That meaning to work on places besides just Cave Country. Many states have some great places to dive but need help with geting the propper work to get them open to the public to dive. Work should be done in all states all over the world and not just spend the time and effort in FL (cave country)
SLIM
Agreed,and it is done. I know of work to open sites in South Georgia and in TAG country.Quote:
Originally Posted by SLIM
What other sites need opened?
I can think of several in the mid west, MO, AR, and IN.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelly Jessop
I always have a few in mind. One that can't be used to dive at this time.
Hornesby, Cindy :D
Do you mind sharing the info on the IN systems? PM or email if you need to, but I would lo0ve to check out something close to home. I am more than willing to speak with the landowners to explain how they can benefit from opening their property up to diving.Quote:
Originally Posted by FW
I guess its official. it is closed to diving....I took this picture this afternoon, the sign is right inside the entrance gate on the right hand side before the parking area. Its a shame because the water there was beautiful :roll:
http://pic18.picturetrail.com/VOL895.../138387252.jpg
I suspect that by asking here publically and hence the phone call /email that was generated afterwards was impetus enough to find FUNDING to place this sign. SIGN SIGN EVERYWHERE A SIGN; DO THIS, DON'T DO THAT, CAN'T YOU READ THE SIGN?
I can only read Spanish so I guess I can still dive it.
Might also have something to do with folks making stupid remarks about 'sneak' diving too - here and on the Fill Station. Like that is going give the general public confidence in a cave divers' sense of responsibility. :roll:
Thanks - whoever is responsible - for getting another cave closed!
If you couldn't hold back onto your "enthusiasm" - did you try to portrait the whole cave diving in public parks objectively? Did you present the Eagles Nest - FWC (another state agency) property model for cave diving? Or did you just tell the officers - "ohhh you are up for some serious liability issues if you don't make cave diving illegal at Falmouth?" Are you worried that some other young talented cave divers will be more capable than you are?
I've never been in Falmouth myself but I liked the feeling that I can go and dive there if I want to. Freedom gone.
Jitka Hyniova
well put!!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by jitka
I cant understand why it would have been closed to cave diving just like that. Whats the difference between some of the other state parks that have caves on them and allow cave diving and Falmouth that has great facilities, boardwalk to the spring, but prohibited Cave Diving now? Whats gonna be next? Little River is a state park. Is it just gonna take 1 phone call to close that to cave diving as well?
That sign will look really good in the landscaping in front of my house.Quote:
Originally Posted by Titen
I believe this subject and the circumstances and fact that the cave was closed was exhasutively discussed months ago. It this goning to be another re-hash or can we just re-read the old thread?
It seemed pretty clear to me that it was no ones "fault" and the sign was likely coming (if not alredy posted) and that for anyone who wanted there was a legal solution thru an active project.
Shame it's not open but not anything new. I'd like to hear more on the State thing requiring maximum access to recreational use of state resources being used to open places for cave diving - but geeze this isn't even a change - just a sign.
Thanks for the picture. Good to know it's offical.
The timing seemed to be very suspcious.... wasn't it?Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary
It's kind of like when someone "breaks" into said company building by simply walking in an open front door at midnight and steals some important financial documents and the next week there is a 24x7 guard now at the front of said building... hmmm
There were questions of the "security breech" but the company said "There was not a security issue, this guard staff position has been in the works for several months".... sure it has.... :roll:
Yeah and I'm sure it had nothing to do with the death there last year either. :roll: Cindy
You mean the one that took place in the OW on 01/2004.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cindy
I would suspect that if that was the issue a $200 sign would not have taken over 2 years to erect.
Was there a death after this that was not discussed?
I do not now nor have I ever had a permit to dive Falmouth. I did not get the cave closed. The sign was in the works when I called and asked if the cave was open or not. What amazes me is that anyone thinks the SRWM takes less than a year to put a sign up. They must live in another country because in this one the Government has to see a problem, have a meeting, add it to the budget, hire the sign made, get someone to place the sign and then finally some one has to take the photo three months after the sign is in place.
If I wanted caves to myself I could have dived Hart Springs forever instead of busting my ass and causing a lot of my freinds a lot of work to open it.
If I wanted caves closed I would not keep trying to keep Alachua accessable and nice.
I spend around 25 hours a week working on getting caves open and trying to protect them. I don't appreciate this kind of accusation aimed directly at me on this forum and others. It continues to be by the three same people. Who by the way don't even know me as a person or have ever been in the water with me. They get their information and opinions second hand. I sometimes wonder why I even care about any of this or defending myself. When I get on these forums and ask for help the people who do know me have always been very helpful and I have met some great folks on this forum. For now I will post my "side" of the story. People can take the information and decide for themselves. Cindy Butler
boy you guys are silly that was an early april fools joke, I was board one day at work and made the sign and put it at the park.
Happy diving.
It worked! Cindy :-D
alright april fools is over...go remove your sign so we can dive it now :smt041Quote:
Originally Posted by Caver95
Little River is run by Suwannee County it is not a state park.
Diving bans and "management" at state (and WMD)-managed parks are flatly indefensible from a liability perspective (the state and park management is already indemnified against problems.) The sole defensible reason for them is lack of resource to mitigate impact (e.g. steps, high-risk wildlife of one form or another, etc) The latter (e.g. steps) is easily mitigated by diver desire and checkbooks.
To the extent that we, the people, permit this without LOUD protest, we get what we deserve.
That is true folks. There is NO WAY in the world that Cindy got that cave closed. That sign probably was in 'the works' for ages. Gov't is verrry slooooowww about stuff like that. It's all very sad because there were mixed messages online, in the rule books, etc. about whether or not that system was Officially Closed. No one did anything wrong just to ask what the official rules were.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cindy
Maybe somebody who isn't already overwhelmed by current projects and other obligations can take on the task of trying to get it reopened.
Meanwhile, I have to agree that this Falmouth thread has been beat to death. Further input without action is counterproductive. So I'm going to lock it and you all can start fresh on another thread better focused.
Peace.