Speaking of switching regs from one tank to another

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10-10-2005 08:57 AM
Tegg

Speaking of switching regs from one tank to another

I see alot of people talk about this as something that they would do, even I have done it to "test" how long it took.

What I am pondering is, How many incidents have involved actually switching a reg from one tank to the other? As in how many people have done it because they "had" to, not for testing...??

I figure in 30 or so years that cavediving has been around, there must be ONE incident where this was needed, or why else would it be "practiced"?

I have spoken to alot of "old cavedivers" and I can't remember an incident of that nature ever being discussed.

So, have YOU had to actually use the skill of swapping a reg from one valve to another in water? If so, what were the failures that led up to the needed switch?

Thanks.
10-10-2005 09:09 AM

I have a better idea. Buy quality regulators, and have them serviced annually by a trained professional.

:roll:
10-10-2005 09:14 AM
Tegg

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sludge

I have a better idea. Buy quality regulators, and have them serviced annually by a trained professional.

:roll:

I agree. :-D

I figure that if this is really something that needs concern, surely someone would have expierenced a failure that needed this skill within the last 30yrs or so of cavediving...
10-26-2005 09:05 AM
jason

reg swap

if you're diving sidemount (for real, not just to be showy) and get shell material or gravel under one of your diaghrams - your going to have a full tank of gas that is inaccessible. Now suppose you got stuck and drained the majority of your other tank while extricating yourself and you might be in a position where swapping regs underwater is looking a bit more like a good idea - no amount of regulator servicing is going to help prevent that situation....
10-26-2005 09:14 AM
OFG-1

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sludge

I have a better idea. Buy quality regulators, and have them serviced annually by a trained professional.

:roll:

You will never go far with this type of thinking. Do you mean that my 1978 version calypso IVs, my SAS sub 10, and my White Stag stage regs that I store in the trunk of my car are not adequate?

BTW, have you looked at the "trained professionals" in some of these dive shops lately?? Just remember, until recently Caver95 was one of these.
10-26-2005 09:20 AM
Angie Reim

Yep. I've had a few dives where something was stuck in a reg (tight nasty, got crap blown into it) or I had a free flow from a burst o-ring. I didn't have to switch the reg on the tanks but further from the exit, it might have become an option. I would've tried fluttering the tank valve first, etc.

I'm pretty sure that I would've been 'seeing stars' by the time I was through. On the other hand, in both cases I did have a buddy with me from whom I could've sipped some gas during the switch (Though I would've taken a sip from my wing first.)

In either case there would've been plenty of time to remove the defective 1st stage from the inaccessible tank, etc. while swimming out before making that switch.

I hope I never get in this situation for real. I hope no one does.
10-26-2005 09:43 AM
Rich

Re: reg swap

Quote:

Originally Posted by jason

if you're diving sidemount (for real, not just to be showy) and get shell material or gravel under one of your diaghrams - your going to have a full tank of gas that is inaccessible. Now suppose you got stuck and drained the majority of your other tank while extricating yourself and you might be in a position where swapping regs underwater is looking a bit more like a good idea - no amount of regulator servicing is going to help prevent that situation....

Some long time sidemounters I know (who don't do it for show!) use an H-valve on one of their tanks with an extra pressurized reg attached, kinda eliminates the having to switch first stages deal.

Safe diving,

Rich
10-26-2005 09:45 AM
Tegg

Re: reg swap

Quote:

Originally Posted by jason

if you're diving sidemount (for real, not just to be showy) and get shell material or gravel under one of your diaghrams - your going to have a full tank of gas that is inaccessible. Now suppose you got stuck and drained the majority of your other tank while extricating yourself and you might be in a position where swapping regs underwater is looking a bit more like a good idea - no amount of regulator servicing is going to help prevent that situation....

True but a little "MacGyver" work will help... :-D

I use some high quality panty hose just under the cover of my Apeks 2nd stage. It seems to block out the sand/gravel/shells good enough, while allowing air to pass out just fine... It takes some practice to get it to stay good, but once you get it, its easy...
10-26-2005 10:27 AM
lonestarfl

If you have a regulator problem for whatever reason/malfunction without a backup plan or an underwater repair you will have a tank of gas that is essentially unavailable. This senario is not a "death sentence" since you should have managed your gas so that only one tank is required for a safe exit... a buddy can help if this is not a solo dive or one man tunnel. But in more extreme diving I prefer self rescue at all times and access to all my gas at all times. Exiting on just one bottle leaves no room for error or delay and will throw you WAY out of trim. An H valve with the extra regulator on one tank is cheap insurance.
As to the original question...has a regulator switch ever been required underwater on a dive? I have gone to the back up reg when the primary on the H valve started leaking water. Turned out to be a tear in the mouth piece. If it had been the primary on the Kvalve, I would have made the switch while still breathing a good regulator. So, it is only by chance that I did not have to do an underwater switch...but even then, it would not have been a breath holding situation. Think of your own diving experiences even on doubles. If you have ever had a problem with your primary regulator and gone to your back up you still had access to all your gas. Had you done this dive in sidemount, you would lose access to one complete cylinder unless at some point you do a regulator transfer.
Lee
10-26-2005 10:30 AM
Angie Reim

Re: reg swap

Quote:

Originally Posted by jason

if you're diving sidemount (for real, not just to be showy) and get shell material or gravel under one of your diaghrams - your going to have a full tank of gas that is inaccessible. Now suppose you got stuck and drained the majority of your other tank while extricating yourself and you might be in a position where swapping regs underwater is looking a bit more like a good idea - no amount of regulator servicing is going to help prevent that situation....

Who would sidemount 'just to be showy'? It's a pain in the butt to switch to sidemount and takes longer to get into the water. Anyone I know that sidemounts does it for good reason. Pbtttttt! :P
10-26-2005 10:32 AM
Angie Reim

Re: reg swap

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rich

Some long time sidemounters I know (who don't do it for show!) use an H-valve on one of their tanks with an extra pressurized reg attached, kinda eliminates the having to switch first stages deal.

Safe diving,

Rich

That's a good idea. Especially if you are doing a lot of the 'might as well be solo' kind of diving. Spare 1st stage. Redundancy.....duh. 8)
10-26-2005 10:46 AM
Jim Fishback

I have not had to change regulators underwater but I have thought about it. When Turning the GAS back on I would do it slowly and push and release the purge button a couple of times. So any water that got into the First stage with blow on through. If you hold it down it could freeze up on you. Also I would expect the SPG to go bad. That could happen a couple of dives later. I would have the regulator service.
10-26-2005 11:20 AM
lonestarfl

Jim,
I don't put a pressure gauge on the back up regulator. If I have to do a switch underwater...I am on the way OUT. Monitoring the gas is not that important...You've got what You've got. Know what I mean. :(
Lee
10-26-2005 11:26 AM
Rob

A buddy and I had to do it once while doing our 70 foot deco stop in a raging current after doing a 320 ft wreck dive. It wasn't fun and it really took both of us to get it accomplished. Since he needed that deco gas we didn't have a choice. We took the reg from his 120 bottle and moved it to the 70 bottle. I was putting the 'good' reg now filled with saltwater on the tank and was really hoping that it was going to work. We use all DIN for everything so once I had the reg screwed in about half way I cracked the valve far enough open to get some positive pressure in the first stage, while purging the second finished screwing the reg in. Opened the valve all the way slowly and finished purging the water out. He said it breathed a little sluggish through deco but not too bad all things considered.

After getting both regs rebuilt he showed me the orings and seat out of the bad one, one oring was torn and the seat had a serious indentation from the knife edge of the piston. We figure that he had bumped the second stage at depth and purged the reg allowing the water pressure to force the piston into the seat. On an interesting note there didn't appear to be any water in the pressure guages and I believe he still uses them today. This happened about three of four years ago.
10-26-2005 11:56 AM
jason

An H valve with the extra regulator on one tank is cheap insurance.
As to the original question...has a regulator switch ever been required underwater on a dive?

Assume for a moment (purely hypothetically of course) that the tank that was drained (due to being stuck in high flow) had an H valve on it (probably because there was some no-mount stuff that was being pushed...) And then the remaining tank has a reg that got shell material in it while squeezing through another restriction in high flow (and clearing that second restriction might be slightly hampered by the H-valve dragging in the sediment in the high flow). In this fictional scenario, the diver might have thought to put panty hose over their reg to prevent this from happening, but given the high flow and work rate - the panty hose might make breathing a bit harder and cause the diver to remove the offensive hose.... Let's make this scenario happen in about 160 feet of water just to keep the discussion interesting. This is all purely hypothetical....
10-26-2005 12:51 PM
Limestone Cowboy

Re: Speaking of switching regs from one tank to another

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tegg

What I am pondering is, How many incidents have involved actually switching a reg from one tank to the other? As in how many people have done it because they "had" to, not for testing...??

I had to assist a dive buddy at the Nest swap regs between his 20 and 70 ft bottles. Yokes are much easier than din when you have to do this. Switch went fine, regs survived, and SPGs survived. Of course, he just went to back gas to do this, so it wasn't rushed. Saved him probably close to 30-45 minutes of extra deco.

Drew
10-26-2005 10:44 PM
MikeH

This one time....at band camp.... :-D

Mike
10-27-2005 06:55 AM
Gary

Re: reg swap

Quote:

Originally Posted by jason

if you're diving sidemount (for real, not just to be showy) and get shell material or gravel under one of your diaghrams - your going to have a full tank of gas that is inaccessible. Now suppose you got stuck and drained the majority of your other tank while extricating yourself and you might be in a position where swapping regs underwater is looking a bit more like a good idea - no amount of regulator servicing is going to help prevent that situation....

Meaning one of your regs breathes a little wet? Hardly inaccesable.

You still have 2 tanks with breathable gas in them regardless of how inconvienient it is to get at that gas. Breath one reg (since one is all you should need to get out safely). If you consider it worth the extra effort remove the face plate on the other and clear out the piece of debris that is the problem.

People have developed all sorts of extreme senerio situations and fixes but basically unless both tanks explode you've still got air to get out.