Missing a backup light?
I found one on Saturday near the start of the goldline in the eye.
Let me know what you're missing and if it matches I'll send it to you.
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Missing a backup light?
I found one on Saturday near the start of the goldline in the eye.
Let me know what you're missing and if it matches I'll send it to you.
I found one also, in about the same place. If you can describe it, you can have it.
This?
Quote:
Originally Posted by cavewoman
wonder if this mite be mine..
I had my pocket rip out this weekend
I actualy lost both my backup lights two small silver ones
one took a123's and the other took 3 aaa.
they where less than 6" long and silver
one had a clip tied on with cave line and the other had no way to tie anything too it
I reckon I have one of them. The one with no attachment. I think I'll be at peacock this weekend. I can drop it of at DO or CE. If that's no good PM me an address and I'll mail it to you.Quote:
Originally Posted by plapin
Sounds like we may have sorted it out. Glad Peter jumped on to clarify.
Huh? your backup lights for cave diving are in the same pocket, and one has a clip (you don't use I guess)? I don't recall that as proper gear configuration. And when you noticed that both were gone, did you turn the dive? Or did you even notice if they were gone during the dive? Who was your instructor?Quote:
Originally Posted by plapin
skip
Wow. A happy ending turned sour. Thanks Skip.
Skip, I'm trying to get someone there light back here not bash the way they dive.
If you want to do that start your own thread on light clipping. This is not the place for it.
I'm sorry for hijacking the thread, but when someone loses both backup lights and they are not carried correctly by any agency standards it seems to me the time and place to question the practice. I'm glad he/she got them back, but I'd still like to know the answers to my questions. right here, in this thread where the information originated. and while I'm thinking about it..."had a pocket ripped out??"
There's been threads here and other forums decrying the poor training, the poor skills, the poor knowledge of cave divers and their instructors and what should be done about it. Maybe asking questions is the place to start and not simply blowing it off.
skip
Don't apologize. Just go to another forum section and start your own thread.
This is not the place for it.
It is quite simply ridiculous that a diver has to fear humiliation by the simple act of trying to retrieve an item they lost from a person attempting to return it.
Thanks in advance.
Wow... I feel the love now, thanks.
Not that I want to give you the satisfaction skip... But Actually I had a total of 5 lights on me. yes two of witch where in the same pocket.
One has no way of being clipped and the other after testing (in ow) must not have been clipped off correctly (inside the pocket) or maybe the clip broke after 200 + cave dives on it. ( I will find out if and when I get it back)
Question #2.
And Yes I did turn the dive after noticing they where gone even know I still had 3 lights and
Even though between us we had probely 15 lights.
I'm open to suggestions from anybody that has over 500 cave dives, if I want to carry a 4th or 5th dive light ? Do I need another pocket installed on my suit? Is there something in the standards about throwing an extra light in a pocket over and beyond the original 3? If there is valued information to be learned for me or my fellow divers from this please pm me and I will post a new thread.
Guys Thank you for finding my lights and taking your time to post.
Please close this thread
The major agency standards say 2 backups + a primary. 5 lights is not in any standard.Quote:
Originally Posted by plapin
Ya know, not for nothing, but there really wasn't anything wrong with the content of Skip's questions. I agree that they could have been a little "softer" but in the end, the questions weren't unreasonable. We can NOT be afraid to peer-support to protect our fellow cave divers rather than allow them to die because someone's feelings might get hurt. We have a very recent, unfortunate example...
Agreed that it should be in a different thread so if the mods feel it appropriate to split this off, then they will.
I do care about helping cave divers do the right thing and was faced with some decisions recently about sharing my thoughts with someone about some bad decision-making. I decided to share. This diver may not have liked it but it would be irresponsible to ignore. It is not the first time and won't be the last.
The only reasons I would not be open to suggestions or offended by them is if I was being irresponsible/careless, didn't know the standards, or my ego was too big to get some recommendations. Put it in check and accept the help from the community, no matter what form it comes. It could save your life one day.
Skip had a very good, valid point, just didn't come off very nice. I thought the same as he did, because they were called back up lights. I usually dive with five lights as well as I have two on my helmet. Two back ups isn't enough. awhile ago I tested my back-ups and they were fine, but for some reason an hour or so into the dive I pulled one out and turned it on, it would only work for a short time. Pretty sure the batteries were close to being dead and while they were warm they would work fine, but chill them down and then they wouldn't. They were alkaline which means they should have a ridiculous shelf life. Now I stagger battery replacement in my back ups.
Anybody have a better idea? Ideally load testing I guess is the answer, but who's going to do that?
Oh, and threads go off topic all the time, I for one think a very good job is done on splitting out a thread.
I don't have over 500 cave dives, is there relevance in that? When does complacency kick in for the average cave diver?
Peter,
We met Sunday at Ginnie. I was the guy talking to you about the diver from Tampa you photographed and about your pockets. We got along well, so I hope I don't sully our future interactions or seem to be piling on you. That's not my intention.
I agree Skip could have been more tactful and this probably should be in a different thread. I just wanted to point out that during our conversation you said you had a small rip in your pocket that must have gotten bigger on the dive. At the time I thought nothing of it. On the ride home my girlfriend and I were talking about the day's dive and both looked at each other and said, "wtf was that guy that lost his lights doing shoving his backups in a ripped pocket." At the time I guess we both assumed you had more than two backup lights, didn't really think much of the rip, and likely has way more experience than we do so why would we say anything. In retrospect, that assumption of silence is probably what leads to future accidents by not bringing to the surface how one tiny oversight can lead to a series of bad coincidences.
Again, I don't mean to jump on the bandwagon or say you did anything wrong. I only bring it up so that someone who reads this thread thinks hey you know what my pocket looks tattered, maybe I'll choose the other one, and doesn't have the same thing happen with a poor outcome. In light of recent other tragedies at Ginnie, spotlighting the little areas that we all can quickly become complacent on because they seem so minute may help someone think twice in the future.
It was nice meeting you, and hope you realize I only bring this up as a thought provoker.
-Richard
It's an amazing paradox.
A thread is started where one diver is going out of his way to try and return a piece of lost gear to a diver he's likely never met.
Then a person steps in and starts making speculatory assumptions and questioning everthing including who the guys the instructor was.
It reminds me of everything I love and hate about the cave diving community.
And what if Skip was right about everything? Do you think Plapin would respect him and eagerly answer all of his questions in hopes of learning the err of his ways?
Get real.
a64pilot..
its funny you say that about load testing.
I just so happen to load test my lights every 10-20 dives or roughly 4 times per year.
because I have been know to do some extremely long dives and I don't believe the battery life that is listed on the light.
I bet only 4-5 cave divers own such a device.. but its worth it to me to know that I can still get 4hrs (weather its one 4hr dive or 2x 2hr dives in a day) out of a 3-4 year old light for less then $100
.
I will clarify so I don't get jumped once again.. this was a one hour planed dive they fell out on.
Quote:
Originally Posted by a64pilot
I suppose it was a bit harsh. Good to know they were "extras." But is five lights really necessary? I'll leave that for another thread! Glad you got your lights back, and sorry for my rant.Quote:
Originally Posted by plapin
sklp
these where never part of the "3 light, pri, and 2x sec set in my cave diving set.
It was part of the photos I was taking, so yes... I needed 5 lights for this dive, not particulatery for the dive its self but for the photos I was taking in the cave during the dive.
I don't want to use my backups for photos and then find out later during an emergency that i had used up half the life of the batteries over the year before i do my yearly replacement.
I was tough very stringently that you use your backup lights for NOTHING, except emergence only, and to test them in the water prior to starting every dive.
not for camping or letting the kids run around the house with when the power goes out or working on your car.
Quote:
Originally Posted by skip
Quote:
Originally Posted by skip
It was harsh. You jumped to conclusions without a full understanding of the situation, if you would like to question his instructor go look up CDS 106 and give him a call. Sure hope you don't lose anything anytime soon ;)
Honestly my backup lights when cave diving if they are non rechargeable get fresh batteries at the beginning of every visit to cave country. I have a 6 year old, she can use the "old " batteries and a dad around so being cheap on batteries is stupid. If my backups are rechargeable units they get charged the night prior to diving and each day at the end, even if I didn't use them (seen enough backup lights left on by divers unaware to assume I never did, even though I am better than those losers :-) )
Quote:
Originally Posted by a64pilot
Constructive criticism is fine folks, but sometimes it gets out of hand on the forum. We can all attest that everyone has a difference of opinion involving gear placement and or configuration. Peter is an avid, and excellent OC/CCR diver with thousands of dives that were considered "safe". Many of his dives were with me, as I choose dive with Peter over most, he clearly is a 1%er in the Cave Community...Hope that makes good sense to you.
I/we that participate in the CDF don't see the relevance of taking this and creating confrontation within the forum. In other words, if you don't have anything positive to say, don't say it at all. We have enough drama coming in from out of town, so try to minimize exposing yourself to further complications in the cave community.
Thanks in advance.
sorry, I don't buy it. A 1% in the cave community??? WTF is that? Sorry your post smacks of both a "can't happen to me " mentality as well as projecting a seriously arrogant attitude with a royal "i/we" thrown in for effect?
Glad your royal court doesn't see the relevance, except that somehow over the last few years we as a community have managed to trash a pretty darn good cave safety record in regards to trained cavern and cave divers compared to the 20+ years that preceded. Why? Some believe that we are giving a pass to stupidity because we don't want to hurt peoples feelings.
Plus, if you think think the drama in the cave diving community is brought about only by "coming in from out of town" then all I can do is shake my head. Frankly that "townie" mentality is sophomoric.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marty Watson
Chris,
since this seems to be such a hot topic.. lets close this out and start a new thread on backup lights and light maintenance in general.
this is not the place to decuse such things. nobody will ever be able to gain any value from this decusion under the lost and found thread and hope we can keep it to constructive cridisum only.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cerich
a64pilot in his reply said the following "They were alkaline which means they should have a ridiculous shelf life. Now I stagger battery replacement in my back ups.
Anybody have a better idea?". I relied to it and quoted it.
Starting a new thread is a poor way of replying to a comment and question in another thread.
Quote:
Originally Posted by plapin
I disagree, if a newbie wanted info on backup light maintenance and procedure he is not going to look in the lost in found section
Quote:
Originally Posted by cerich