Workday at Indian Springs

Several months of very intense work as been undertaken at Indian Springs. We are down to the last few weeks before the camp opens to the kids. There are still a few tasks that need to be finished. With that said, anyone who wants to pitch in and help the new owners who are very supportive of the cave diving, we could use your help on Thursday May 23, to finish up a few small projects. One is the building next to the dive parking. We have been given the back half of that building to use in exchange for all the work that has been done at the camp. The remodel of the entire building will be undertaken and start that day. The back half will become an air conditioned dive locker room for divers to use.

Any and all help will be greatly appreciated. PM for more information.

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Originally Posted by speleodiver

Several months of very intense work as been undertaken at Indian Springs. We are down to the last few weeks before the camp opens to the kids. There are still a few tasks that need to be finished. With that said, anyone who wants to pitch in and help the new owners who are very supportive of the cave diving, we could use your help on Thursday May 23, to finish up a few small projects. One is the building next to the dive parking. We have been given the back half of that building to use in exchange for all the work that has been done at the camp. The remodel of the entire building will be undertaken and start that day. The back half will become an air conditioned dive locker room for divers to use.

Any and all help will be greatly appreciated. PM for more information.

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Steven,

Is there a way for those of us that are chained to our offices out of the state to help?

JonT

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Originally Posted by speleodiver

Several months of very intense work as been undertaken at Indian Springs. We are down to the last few weeks before the camp opens to the kids. There are still a few tasks that need to be finished. With that said, anyone who wants to pitch in and help the new owners who are very supportive of the cave diving, we could use your help on Thursday May 23, to finish up a few small projects. One is the building next to the dive parking. We have been given the back half of that building to use in exchange for all the work that has been done at the camp. The remodel of the entire building will be undertaken and start that day. The back half will become an air conditioned dive locker room for divers to use.

Any and all help will be greatly appreciated. PM for more information.

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Steve for those of us that have that "work" requirement.or live a long distance away,do you have a way of making donations to this project. In the past we did work days at Indian,provisions were made for monetary donations to defray material expenses,which the park was very grateful for.

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Originally Posted by speleodiver

Several months of very intense work as been undertaken at Indian Springs. We are down to the last few weeks before the camp opens to the kids. There are still a few tasks that need to be finished. With that said, anyone who wants to pitch in and help the new owners who are very supportive of the cave diving, we could use your help on Thursday May 23, to finish up a few small projects. One is the building next to the dive parking. We have been given the back half of that building to use in exchange for all the work that has been done at the camp. The remodel of the entire building will be undertaken and start that day. The back half will become an air conditioned dive locker room for divers to use.

Any and all help will be greatly appreciated. PM for more information.

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I do not consider the new owners to be all that supportive of divers considering the price of the mandatory guide fees being so high, but that is just my opinion!

Donations can be sent to the Aquatic Science Association through the website. Please specify "Indian Springs". I really appreciate any and all help with projects here in Wakulla County. To all of those that support the change by pitching in on workdays, making donations or simply showing up to dive, the support is noticed and very appreciated. Thank you for not just sitting around waiting for a few to handle the work of opening sites, working to make them safe and taking measures to conserve them. Your reward will be a whole new location of dive sites. For the rest, well......keeping waiting!!!!

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Originally Posted by Dsix36

I do not consider the new owners to be all that supportive of divers considering the price of the mandatory guide fees being so high, but that is just my opinion!

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As one of the guides at Indian, let me at least address this. I realize that the fees are higher than some would like. In my experience as a guide there, about half the people who have contacted me about diving at Indian wound up diving there and the other half cited the price as too high and made other plans. I'm not here to second guess those choices. But let me point out that we're not getting rich as guides. It's my understanding that the fees were set in an effort to cover the guides expenses, and to try to ensure some uniformity across the guide pool. Given that I have to put fuel in my truck to Crawfordville and back, eat a couple of meals on the road and most likely stay in a hotel for one night, the fees just barely cover my expenses to be there. And as a CCR diver, my cost for breathing gas is negligible. But that's not true for the OC guides; so that's another expense for them. And we haven't even touched agency memberships and insurance.

Believe me, I wish it weren't so. I'd love to be able to charge less for the guide fee. But it's just not feasible. Remember that you only have to deal with the guide the first three times, and after that the guide fee goes away. So for those first three dives, try to keep your team at three. The per person guide fee is the lowest that way.

I'm sure that Steve and/or Colin can add to or correct my words as needed. Personally I'm happy to have the site open under a management plan that has a path to independent diving. That beats the heck out of "All Guided, All The Time" in my book.

Brian

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Originally Posted by Benthic

As one of the guides at Indian, let me at least address this. I realize that the fees are higher than some would like. In my experience as a guide there, about half the people who have contacted me about diving at Indian wound up diving there and the other half cited the price as too high and made other plans. I'm not here to second guess those choices. But let me point out that we're not getting rich as guides. It's my understanding that the fees were set in an effort to cover the guides expenses, and to try to ensure some uniformity across the guide pool. Given that I have to put fuel in my truck to Crawfordville and back, eat a couple of meals on the road and most likely stay in a hotel for one night, the fees just barely cover my expenses to be there. And as a CCR diver, my cost for breathing gas is negligible. But that's not true for the OC guides; so that's another expense for them. And we haven't even touched agency memberships and insurance.

Believe me, I wish it weren't so. I'd love to be able to charge less for the guide fee. But it's just not feasible. Remember that you only have to deal with the guide the first three times, and after that the guide fee goes away. So for those first three dives, try to keep your team at three. The per person guide fee is the lowest that way.

I'm sure that Steve and/or Colin can add to or correct my words as needed. Personally I'm happy to have the site open under a management plan that has a path to independent diving. That beats the heck out of "All Guided, All The Time" in my book.

Brian

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I would be much more in agreement if the guide fee was per day, but when it is per dive that seems excessive. I would gladly pay the fee if I could get all 3 mandatory dives in the same day. 3 dives in the same day is well within my abilities.

I understand the quides have costs and when OC the gas is a major concern, but I am CCR and gas is not a big cost factor at all. By the time that I travel all the way up there and pay the guide fee, the entrance fee, motels, and food it makes for an expensive weekend for me. Now if the guide fee was only the first day, it would be much more manageable for me and then I could consider guides for my dpv next.

Call me a cheap arse, but I can dive Eagles Nest 150 times for the price of 3 guided dives in Indian. This just does not compute.

I am glad that there is access available and that CCR's are now allowed, but it doesn't look like the requirements will attract very many (unless they have more money than they know what to do with).

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Originally Posted by Dsix36

I would be much more in agreement if the guide fee was per day, but when it is per dive that seems excessive. I would gladly pay the fee if I could get all 3 mandatory dives in the same day. 3 dives in the same day is well within my abilities.
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The guide fee IS per day, not per dive. So is the entry fee. Depending on the plan for each dive, I suppose three dives in a single day would be possible. Note that before being declared independent, you have to make three dives with at least two different guides. But you could certainly line it up to knock that out in a single trip up to Crawfordville. I've seen people do this, but it would likely take two days rather than one.

I'm not trying to call anyone cheap. I'm just trying to make sure that everyone is clear on what the actual costs are. Per day, not per dive. Whether or not those fees are worth it is an individual decision.

Brian

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Originally Posted by Dsix36

Call me a cheap arse, but I can dive Eagles Nest 150 times for the price of 3 guided dives in Indian. This just does not compute.

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...and at the end of the day you've got 150 cave dives in a far inferior cave when it comes to water clarity, depth (Indian is less deco), beauty, amount of tunnel, decorations, access roads, etc.

I've dove Eagles Nest on a "good day" for clarity once -- oddly enough with Benthic and his wife who are both Indian guides, and it cannot even begin to compare to Indian.

The fact that Eagles Nest is deep does not make it a fair comparison to Indian.


Eagles Nest
http://b.vimeocdn.com/ts/477/373/47737343_640.jpg

Indian
https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphot...23228664_n.jpg

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Originally Posted by Benthic

The guide fee IS per day, not per dive. So is the entry fee. Depending on the plan for each dive, I suppose three dives in a single day would be possible. Note that before being declared independent, you have to make three dives with at least two different guides. But you could certainly line it up to knock that out in a single trip up to Crawfordville. I've seen people do this, but it would likely take two days rather than one.

I'm not trying to call anyone cheap. I'm just trying to make sure that everyone is clear on what the actual costs are. Per day, not per dive. Whether or not those fees are worth it is an individual decision.

Brian

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I am getting confused now. This came directly from Steve and I quote: To answer your questions, there is no requirement to have to do dives with two different guides. They can all be done with one if you would like. The guide fees apply for all dives led by guides.

That sounds to me like i can use the same guide for all 3 dives, but the fee is for each dive.

Is this in writing somewhere so I can actually read it myself?

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Originally Posted by jj1987

...and at the end of the day you've got 150 cave dives in a far inferior cave when it comes to water clarity, depth (Indian is less deco), beauty, amount of tunnel, decorations, access roads, etc.

I've dove Eagles Nest on a "good day" for clarity once -- oddly enough with Benthic and his wife who are both Indian guides, and it cannot even begin to compare to Indian.

The fact that Eagles Nest is deep does not make it a fair comparison to Indian.

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I know that Indian is a much more pristine system and my buddy has been wanting me up there for some time. I was extremely excited when i heard that rebreathers were now allowed, but the quide fees knocked the wind out of my sails.

If I can do 3 dives in one day with one guide for a guide fee of $150, I will gladly do that. It would put that area and Jackson Blue on my map of dive sites that I would frequent.

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Originally Posted by Dsix36

I am getting confused now. This came directly from Steve and I quote: To answer your questions, there is no requirement to have to do dives with two different guides. They can all be done with one if you would like. The guide fees apply for all dives led by guides.

That sounds to me like i can use the same guide for all 3 dives, but the fee is for each dive.

Is this in writing somewhere so I can actually read it myself?

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If Steve told you that, then I'd go with that. But my understanding is that it has always had to be three dives with at least two different guides. Ultimately that decision rests with Steve and Colin.

As for guide fees, I've been charging them on a per day basis, not a per dive basis. To my knowledge, so have the other guides.

The policies are published here: http://www.caveconnectionsflorida.co...ansprings.html

Based on what I see there, it's three guided dives. No mention of a number of guides. So I guess that settles that.

Brian