A couple of things about diving in high traffic areas.

First, exiting divers have the right of way, I think this has been lost on people who dive at spots that constantly have 5 or 6 teams at varying stages of their particular dives. From last Thurs to Sunday, my group did several dives and we had problems with divers on scooters not making room or just plain stopping for our team exiting, it was like we were just rocks in the way. There was no attempt to communicate or the part of the entering divers, they just scootered right down the middle of the passage. This is not a blanket statement their were some that were "polite' but not all. Also, as we were entering we had a couple of RB divers that stopped their exit and let the my teammates pass a restriction on the way in. That was a logistical situation and there was no emergent circumstances, thanks to you two for that. And thanks for the communication during the pause.

Also, if someone is in a restriction while exiting and you and your team are entering-PLEASE do not point your light in to the restriction, it just blinds the exiting divers. If you cover your light you will see the exiting divers and their progress much better. I had two HID's in my eyes as I went thru a restriction and could not look directly at the restriction as I was exiting, I also needed my hands to pull and could not shine my light at the person shining their light DIRECTLY in my eyes.

Bottom line, if you are entering and encounter an exiting team-move over and point your lights down and wait for the team to clear from your path.

Thanks for the vent-Eric

Whenever I'm scootering and encounter swimming divers, and we're more than a thousand feet or so into the system, I always give right-of-way, regardless of who's heading in or out. It's kind of like powerboats always giving way to sailboats.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by H2Ocaver

First, exiting divers have the right of way, I think this has been lost on people who dive at spots that constantly have 5 or 6 teams at varying stages of their particular dives. From last Thurs to Sunday, my group did several dives and we had problems with divers on scooters not making room or just plain stopping for our team exiting, it was like we were just rocks in the way. There was no attempt to communicate or the part of the entering divers, they just scootered right down the middle of the passage. This is not a blanket statement their were some that were "polite' but not all. Also, as we were entering we had a couple of RB divers that stopped their exit and let the my teammates pass a restriction on the way in. That was a logistical situation and there was no emergent circumstances, thanks to you two for that. And thanks for the communication during the pause.

Also, if someone is in a restriction while exiting and you and your team are entering-PLEASE do not point your light in to the restriction, it just blinds the exiting divers. If you cover your light you will see the exiting divers and their progress much better. I had two HID's in my eyes as I went thru a restriction and could not look directly at the restriction as I was exiting, I also needed my hands to pull and could not shine my light at the person shining their light DIRECTLY in my eyes.

Bottom line, if you are entering and encounter an exiting team-move over and point your lights down and wait for the team to clear from your path.

Thanks for the vent-Eric

---

We've noted the same thing recently. Don't know if it's getting worse or we're just noticing it more because we're diving more. Many recent experiences with people not yielding to us as the exiting team. If I see a team coming out, we move to the side and wait well in advance of their arrival, but aren't getting the same courtesy. This past saturday at JB we had a team of 4 scooter divers coming in as we were exiting. One stayed on the line and the rest scattered around the cave. We basically had to maneuver around them, with the person on the line not yielding to us in any fashion. I would assume that the exiting swimming team should be allowed to stay on the line and the incoming scooterer would yield.

I might also add a not of caution about blind corners?

I came within a couple mm of being an SS Hood Ornament when a DPV came full throttle around a corner in the Cornflakes.

No attempt to slow down or yield. I was exiting, the scooter was traveling upstream.

Good Post! Don't blame you for being irritated. The unthoughtful divers need to go back and take Intro again. What the heck??

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by H2Ocaver

First, exiting divers have the right of way, I think this has been lost on people who dive at spots that constantly have 5 or 6 teams at varying stages of their particular dives. From last Thurs to Sunday, my group did several dives and we had problems with divers on scooters not making room or just plain stopping for our team exiting, it was like we were just rocks in the way. There was no attempt to communicate or the part of the entering divers, they just scootered right down the middle of the passage. This is not a blanket statement their were some that were "polite' but not all. Also, as we were entering we had a couple of RB divers that stopped their exit and let the my teammates pass a restriction on the way in. That was a logistical situation and there was no emergent circumstances, thanks to you two for that. And thanks for the communication during the pause.

Also, if someone is in a restriction while exiting and you and your team are entering-PLEASE do not point your light in to the restriction, it just blinds the exiting divers. If you cover your light you will see the exiting divers and their progress much better. I had two HID's in my eyes as I went thru a restriction and could not look directly at the restriction as I was exiting, I also needed my hands to pull and could not shine my light at the person shining their light DIRECTLY in my eyes.

Bottom line, if you are entering and encounter an exiting team-move over and point your lights down and wait for the team to clear from your path.

Thanks for the vent-Eric

---

We ran into a group of divers at Devil's, on scooters. We were exiting and they physically pushed me and a dive buddy out of the way and never slowed down. If I had seen them coming I would have ducked out of the way but they seemed to come out of no where. They didn't go in very far because they quickly came back up on our tail and pushed us out of the way again. No light signals, no slowing down, just straight on through. We had about half an hour of deco to do and never saw them when we got out or I would probably have said something.

More reasons to dive in places where other people don't go.

I have to say that most of the cave divers I have encountered, both scootering and swimming, have been courteous to the extreme. There have been a few exceptions, (most notably a team of two on scooters that flew by Tracy and I outbound at the Hill 400 jump while Tracy was picking up her jump reel and almost hit her a few years ago), but mostly my interactions with other cavers underwater have been appropriate and polite.

Mike

Sadly I don't think the growing lack of couresy in cave diving had to do with just braking the rules. I think people in general have become less courteous in general and that is following them into the cave systems. Several months ago I had spent a weekend diving the ear. I tied in my reel on Friday night and left it in the entrance over the weekend. That was the plan anyway. When I went was gearing up for my dive on Sunday morning I saw a reel that looked like mine sitting on the steps. Sure enough someone retrieved the reel for me. Not exactly following protocol.

Well, 2 thoughts on this thread:

1) Often no one has to "give way". if the cave is wide, just scoot over a bit. I suspect that experienced divers do this all the time, but newer divers expect them to "give way" even in 10 ft wide cave where there's plenty of room.

2) To the poster above - what the hell were you doing leaving a reel in a heavily trafficked cave overnight? You have no idea how irritating it is to come out of Ginnie dodging a maze of badly run reels. Frankly I think the guy who took your reel out was providing a public service, and that you, not he, was inconsiderate. If you want a reel in such a totally unnecessary place, run the bloody thing every time.

I personally see more disrespect done to the high-traffic caves than to the other divers in them. I sense, by looking at all of the damage, that just how bad everything looks instills a sense of "It's OK to fudge on the rules here, because just look at it. Everybody does." Maybe I've just been fortunate, having not run into more than a handful of discourteous divers over the years.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by aainslie

Frankly I think the guy who took your reel out was providing a public service, and that you, not he, was inconsiderate. If you want a reel in such a totally unnecessary place, run the bloody thing every time.

---

Andrew, I agree with you on most of your post, and most of your posts for that matter, but don't feel any diver has the right to remove another diver's reel. Teams charged with keeping systems clean are the exception, but if I drop a bottle for a week or leave a reel in for a couple of days, I'm counting on them being there when I need them. Still, I can't say that I ever thought about leaving a reel in the entry of any cave, and agree that it should be run every time.

Actually I was coming out of the Eye this week with a scooter, Al 80, 2 AL 40s & my RB and was met by 2 lines coming in that were rather well tucked & placed. However, a team of 3 + their instructor was coming down as I was at the 40-foot mark (I waved them past) and the student laying the line ran it right down the middle, with no effort to get it out of the main stream or to tuck it under anything, or even get it tight, for that matter. Worse, the instructor didn't clean it up as last person in the team. BTW, the student hadn't even turned on their light at that point, so I knew it was going to be bad.

It's probably everyone having to dive the same holes until some of the other sites reopen. Guess we can all live with that, multiple reel lines and all.

Bill,

My bigger point was, it's inconsiderate to leave your reel in for days in a place like Ginnie. The second comment was somewhat joking, not even I would recommend taking out someone else's reel, even though I was sorely tempted last week. And even I would grudgingly give people the right to use a reel in a place as utterly impossible to get lost as Ginnie. Perhaps there are, indeed, some people who haven't yet realized that merely ceasing to swim at the end of the gold line will result in your being regurgitated from the cave like an ill concieved hamburger on a Sunday morning after too much to drink the night before. No real navigation required.

Humour is sometimes difficult to communicate in a post, I suppose.

But seriously, giving a lecture on manners when they themselves show scant respect for others? Good grief.

Amen.

I understand what you are saying about the reel being left. But it was dead of winter with very little traffic. And yes in a high flow system like ginnie it is very easy to find your way out from the gold line. But don't come down on me for being safe. Accidents happen when we become careless and brake the rules.

You guys are funny. You haven't learned how to force proper etiquette, and it is so simple. Just silt the crap out of the cave going out. Blow the vis down to nothing behind you, make it look like pigpen from peanuts had been there. Trust me, that will slow the entering team down, and make then think twice about going past you. And since you are on your way out, who cares? Wallow around in the bottom, point your scooter down at the floor, that's what I have been doing for the last 38 years, and all this time, people just think I am a crappy diver. HA, the joke is on them!

You have to love the instructors that preach courtesy and respect!
For those that didn't catch it in class... just perhaps they'll catch it with our good example.