Zater level at Lauraville is almost 23'. 25' and Peacock is blown. May have to postpone my trip next week. Any comments.
Thanks
John
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Zater level at Lauraville is almost 23'. 25' and Peacock is blown. May have to postpone my trip next week. Any comments.
Thanks
John
Peacock has a long slough that can absorb a fair amount of water level,but other sites have blown or at a threat of blowing. This is something we used to see every spring with normal weather patterns,and is a much needed thing. When ever planning trips in the spring,it is always prudent to have plan B..C..and...D,because of the rains. FWIW,South GA has gotten a lot of rain in the last 24hr,and still raining.
Dive outpost says peacock isn't blown, heading out there now. Call Cathy at dive outpost to check it out before you head down.
There is plenty of good diving to be done when some of the usual places are blown. A few Februarys ago Peacock, Little River, Madison, Telford, etc. all flooded out just before Tracy and I left on a trip to Dive Outpost. We had a great trip anyway - spent two weeks diving Ginnie, Manatee, Jug, Jackson Blue, Twin, and Hole in the Wall. They are all quite blowout resistant - Manatee in particular can be very good when the river is high - low flow and great visibility.
All true. I will have to check with Paul Clark and see what he is up for.
Thanks
John
Just looked at the NOAA map, lots of rain in GA and AL. Flash flood warnings on the Eastern end of AL/FL border.
We were just in Manatee today. It was VERY VERY NICE !!!!! (SMILE)
Thanks!
Jean
Jean
I talked to Paul Clark today. Would you be up for Manatee next Fri or Sat?
John
Shocky I would highly recommend Jug , etc. Morgans list.
We dove OG yesterday and had a fantastic dive the conditions were awesome!
We dove Jug for the first time on Wed. the walk / pull was worth it so very worth it!
Ginnie is fun to dive when the river is up!
I have learned as Kelly mentioned these floods are good for the caves and a regular part of spring.
It makes trips more spontaneous and has yielded many new friendships as well as new places to dive!
Embrace the spirit of adventure and push off into the unknown!
Well that is my idea of fun! Not everyones my wife rarely joins me on one of my cave trips!
JCG
Peacock is crystal clear. Just did two 80'ish minute dives there today.
I will keep my fingers crossed for Friday.
John:
I could do it next Saturday (SMILE)
Jean
How does Peacock blow? Unless of course the river floods it banks and actually floods the whole area?
The obvious way for it to flood is water coming up the slough and cause the spring to reverse. The last flood was unique in that the system went brown and the spring run was dry. There are tannic vents from the river to the spring,such that you'll see a few spots in the cave go black,while the rest of the cave is good-sign of impending doom. You could have Peacock blow this time by the same mechanism.Quote:
Originally Posted by a64pilot
Interesting, I didn't know there was a direct connection to the river.
This is the way you're thinking it floods: The paved road from Dive Outpost towards Peacock a few years ago.
I didn't dive it but there was very definite flow going from P2 to P3 through the rock channel this morning. P1 and P3 are duck weed covered, but P2 looked very clear.
The gate at Little River was locked. Royal was blue (no, don't dive there, silly!) Troy looks like great coffee. Jug was clear and gorgeous.
Both CHIPOLA and APALACHICOLA are under a River Flood Warning. The Chipola was at 14ft today but expected to reach 27ft by Fri. The Apalachicola is currently at 17ft but expected to reach 21ft by Wed.
Let us know how it was/is as i am heading down tuesdayQuote:
Originally Posted by oreo
Ugh. Ironic how a wet spell for the weather makes a dry spell for us.Quote:
Originally Posted by bpcfire1
There are still several diveable sites, doesn't it take a real big flood to close Ginnie? I think the Millpond is almost blowout proof too.
Exactly, however with everyone congregating at a few dive sites, things will be very busy. I am getting wet one way or another this weekend though.Quote:
Originally Posted by a64pilot
I live 80 miles NNW of Peacock. We had nothing but rain(mist to heavy) on Friday, Saturday, and so far today but had a break yesterday. I guess all of this will flow into the Withlacoochee (Kelly or Forrest, help). FWIW, we paddled the Suwannee from Broken Branch to the Music Park yesterday. It seemed normal but this area is upstream from where the Withlacoochee empties into the Suwannee.
Lauraville is now almost 24'.
At what level (at Luraville) will the Suwannee flow into the Peacock basin?
I have been told that the majic number is 25'. I don't really know what really happens when it hits that level, but more knowledgeable people believe there are issues with "vents" to the river as well as what comes up the slough!
John
I was told there is a vent on the peanut line just past the sign. TJ said he was in there as it started to flood from within one year.
That is about the right level. What happens is the river gets up the bluff to where the slough ends, and river water runs back up the slough, and into the run between P1 and P3. From there it goes straight into the system. A few years when the Suwanee rose really fast, there was a waterfall into P2 where the slough starts. There is a picture on here somewhere that TJ took. I will try to find it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shocky
Paul Clark is diving tomorrow with a mutual friend. I'll wait to hear what he has to say. It appears to me that the Lauraville gage is leveling out at 23.88'.
That picture of the wayerfall would be neat to see Forest.
John
It is, but I can't find it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shocky
You better look at the upstream gauges. They are showing another increase.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shocky
You bet they are !!!Quote:
Originally Posted by FW
Both on the With and the Suwanee...
Jean
Lauraville is at 24ft right now
And rising :(Quote:
Originally Posted by bpcfire1
Attachment 8350
Signs of the times....spring times, that is ;)
Apalachicola river near blountstown. At 12:00 pm monday the stage was 20.3 feet.
Chipola will continue to rise to near 28.6 feet by thursday morning.
Shocky I was doing my Intro with TJ in Peacock when the river tannic water came up from the floor like a pilar.
It was rather cool and that was the last dive before it closed.
What level does Ginnie close?
I would think that would be a major flood would it not?
I am thinking a list of cave that never blow would be good!
JCG
Am I seeing a trend? I was with TJ in Peanut when it reversed on us. P3 and P2 was blown and P1 was next when we started the dive. TJ said that it was one of the longest lights out drill he has done because we would not want to see what it was really like. I also could feel the cold water change. We finished up at Ginnie.Quote:
Originally Posted by JCGoodwin
The river is still coming up. I should hear from my buddy Paul today on his dive at Peacock. Gennie is still level and not showing any rise. In the past they have put up a curtain so the Eye stayed clear of tannic river water. Marianna should be good along with other western sites.
John
Which cave has that sign?Quote:
Originally Posted by sskasser
That was up at Troy on Sunday.Quote:
Originally Posted by FW
Thanks!Quote:
Originally Posted by sskasser
I'll stand corrected on what I'm about to post but my memory tells me that in recent times - lets say 10 years or so- Peacock flooded several times via the slough when Luraville was about 29' and most of that water came from upriver with very little local rain. The river would rise and yet the local area remained virtually parched. During that time the only total browning out of Peacock via inside the cave system was after TD Debbie last year when the Suwannee Co. area received over 30" of rain in 3-4 days and Luraville was only at 25'. I would guess that Peacock sometimes floods due to a variety of pressures on the system. Certainly, no matter what , the previous posts regarding use of caution is warranted with the system nearing a state of change.
Monday report: Peacock One fine - a little dusty in the first 200 feet of main line but you can rise above the silt. Peanut Tunnel fine. Orange Grove clear. Cow Springs clear and no flow. Peacock Three horrible.
Jill
Thanks for the update Jill!
Oh I forgot... the roads in the park are pretty deep and messy at Peacock.... heading out to Cow this morning.
Great keep us updated. Looks like this weekend is going to be down to a handful of sites.Quote:
Originally Posted by JillHeinerth
Rookie question here I apoligize.
When and how does Jug ever blow?
Passing back through in a few weeks and would love to dive it once more.
JCG
I think your right, I believe it may take that long for the rivers to crest.Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesK
What? Spring is closed this year? Does that mean we're going directly from winter to summer?:smt102Quote:
Originally Posted by sskasser
I don't think it ever has, but there were a couple really big floods before we started diving it. It can get really low flow, when the Santa Fe river is up.Quote:
Originally Posted by JCGoodwin
Ginnie is beautiful when it is black- nobody there, and the lower viz makes it seem like a different cave. Of course the water had to be in the bathhouses.
That picture was taken after the waterfall into P3, we had just finished a cave class the day beforeAttachment 8359Quote:
Originally Posted by FW
Tuesday Report:
Peacock 1 - Milky (Main line better than Peanut today), Tannic water sweeping in from The Mistake at Peanut
Orange Grove to 400 feet past Challenge - absolutely gorgeous
Cow - Stunning, clear, low flow
Jug - still great
Thanks again Jill. Fingers are crossed for this weekend.
Thanks Forrest and Jill your reports.
I appreciate the heads up and I am sure others as we'll.
JCG
At least I get to do a scooter dive with Paul Heinerth at Ginnie Thursday afternoon. Have to see after that. Paul Clark is diving Peacock today. His dive yesterday was good. Let you know what he says, but regardless, I'm driving up.
John
At 5am today (2-27-13) the Suwanee at Luraville was 24.99". At 25" it starts to come into the slough, towards Peacock. The river is rising upstream, so there is a very good chance that Peacock will flood by the weekend :(
Is most of the flooding via the slough? And will it be rapid enough that it could be videotaped?
So many gopros out there that do timelaps
How fast will the water flow in?Quote:
Originally Posted by huxley
Can't imagine leaving the camera there unguarded.
Looking at the slope of the river level graph, not very fast. It did come in fast in 2008, when they opened the weir in the Okefenokee. The slope of the river level graph was over 45 degrees, and there was a waterfall coming in to Peacock from the slough.Quote:
Originally Posted by Puttzer
Peacock Slough, Feb 2008. This is the view you'd have standing at the water's edge at P3 to gear up.
Attachment 8413
Yep, that is the one I was looking for. Thanks!Quote:
Originally Posted by sskasser
I live to serve! ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by FW
I recall one ~T. Morris & either B. Main or W. Jasper describing a swim from the Iche parking lot thru the trail to get to the jug hole one year. Not sure when, but think it to be in late 90's !Quote:
Originally Posted by FW
That would be insane. However, you can easily tell the area that floods there. I wonder what the cave looked like?Quote:
Originally Posted by JE
Suwannee at Luraville is currently at 25.39"
I'm guessing Ginnie is going to be crowded this weekend.
Will Jug Hole "go under"?
See post #52Quote:
Originally Posted by Puttzer
Wow that is cool you won't have to use the cart at Jug!
Just pull and glide down the trail to the spring!
Sweet sounds like fun!
Sorry if this comment is taken to serious!
JCG
Actually, that account is very flawed. He was talking about the 1998 flood. I flew over the whole cave area then. The water at Madison was almost up to the highway. You could only see the roof of the compressor shed (gone now). The river was out of its banks in Branford, and into the Branford Dive Center. Both the Ginnie, and Devil's Eye parking lots were under water. The Itchetucknee was backed up all the way to the Jug, and the head spring, but not over the current trail. I suspect the area that is now under a boardwalk was pretty wet, though. You could still see clear water at the Jug, and head spring. FWIW, you could swim from the head spring to Jug, but there weren't any fences back then.Quote:
Originally Posted by JCGoodwin
Going to Jug today... will report back... it was gorgeous last week.
Speaking of siphons... this is what Rose and Duckweed Sink looked like last summer in the flooding that followed the tropical storm... We're not going to experience anything like that this time around, but it is interesting none the less.
Attachment 8414
WOW!!
O.M.G.! Great picture, thanks.Quote:
Originally Posted by JillHeinerth
2/27 Peacock 1 Report
Pothole line: Milky with some colder, dilute tannic water at bottom of well. Clearer at top of cave passage. Nicholson is in most places clearer than Pothole line, but still places with stratified cooler, slightly tannic water at bottom of passage with warmer clearer at top. Places where depth greater than about 62' were more tannic/worse vis than slightly shallower. 40' vis on mainline
Peanut line: Milky cavern, tannic water pooling below start of Peanut Tunnel. Clears up once in Peanut Tunnel. 60' vis. Crossover Tunnel clearer, esp in shallower parts. Milkyness returns on Pothole line downstream of Olsen. Olsen and first 100' of upstream Olsen are clear.
Basin: Rather clear, duckweed, still springing from P2 to P3.
Thanks for the report Mer, but the river has gone up a foot since yesterday, and I suspect you may have gotten the last good dive in there. The Withlacoochee, and Suwanee are both predicted to continue to rise, so Peacock will go under soon, if not already.
The Santa Fe is rising fast as well, but down near the Suwanee. It is only rising slowly at Ft White, so at worst, the run at Devil's Eye will be tannic. I should put in a disclaimer... that is, unless we get even more rain.
I just find it really interesting to watch the dynamic hydrology when things are flooding/clearing. It's fun trying to notice patterns between different flood events.
It is hard to see patterns, since there are so many variables involved. I have been cavediving in FL for 44 years, and no 2 floods have been alike, other than we couldn't dive some systems :roll:Quote:
Originally Posted by mer
Notice I said TRYING... not succeeding ;-)Quote:
Originally Posted by FW
Drat.Quote:
Originally Posted by FW
I'll be there in about a week and was looking forward to a few dives at Peacock...
Best regards -
gkn
--
Gerard K. Newman | NAUI #48937 | Kona, HI
I suspect this is lack of data, rather than lack of a trend. I can't imagine that if you measured flow data, rain, and river level that you couldn't accurately predict things.Quote:
Originally Posted by FW
The data is there, but all in different places. What is missing is the onset of reversal at each spring. I don't that has ever been collected.Quote:
Originally Posted by jj1987
I'll be working on that one this summer. There is a lot of information about when various reaches of the river start to lose water rather than gain it, which indicates that water is reversing into springs. It doesn't tell you what springs specifically or the order in which they went under, but the information allows us to examine environmental controls on reversal events, such as rainfall amount and location and antecedent aquifer levels. Using that data, we see large variability in the amount of water that is lost along sections of the river during floods that occur following wet periods vs dry periods. Generally speaking, flood magnitudes are being decreased due to low aquifer levels and reversals are occurring at lower river stages. Low aquifers mean more storage space for water and more attenuated flood pulses. Flooding on the Suwannee in 2009 was near-record up by Madison, indicating that we should have had near record flooding downstream. Because the aquifer levels were so low, however, the flooding even at Peacock wasn't even close to a record.Quote:
Originally Posted by FW
That would be fantastic Jason. If you need any database help, JJ1987 will be glad to help you :-DQuote:
Originally Posted by jason
I watched a NOVA special the other night entitled "Earth from Space". It detailed a lot of different types of satellite data that has been collected for the last 30 years. One interesting animation showed a bulge in the crater at Mt. St. Helens due to subsurface magma. The documentary stated the accuracy was +- 0.25 inches. There was a large segment of the show dedicated to ocean currents. Just think of what a researcher could do with that data as it relates to the rivers and springs of N. FL. An animation of flood waters as they pulsed down the rivers would be very interesting...
Jug Hole on Thursday... still gorgeous!
Jill
Attachment 8418Attachment 8417
Is peacock flooded yet?
Great pics Jill! Looks like Jug might be a good option for diving this weekend. OK, everyone else stay away from Jug!!!!! LOL
Any report on jug or manatee today ?
Try one of the shops in the area:Quote:
Originally Posted by Puttzer
386.776.2299
(386) 776-1449
Good dive today in Orange Grove. Water fall coming into P3 with a vortex over the basin. Reported 3-4' vis in P1. Peanut line divable. Thinking at Dive Outpost is the system will go down soon. Waiting for Paul and students to come back for their report.
Thanks
Brown water reported to be to Pot Hole. You might be able to get in a dive at Orange Grove in the morning but if the ranger closes P1, the entire system will be closed. Jug Hole is reported to be nice. Diving Ginnie tomorrow
I see two reports on peacock, on 03.23.13 at 1004 says its blown, then on the same day at 0748 its crystal clear. Hmmmmm interesting.
It went under very fast. That is one reason not to dive a system that is on the verge of reversing. You could get trapped.Quote:
Originally Posted by diverpaul69
Yum not only are Madison and now P3 siphoning but they are sucking down sewage!
http://www.gainesville.com/article/2...30309879?tc=cr
remind me not to do my usual drink breaks mid-dive for a while!
P3 video here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O5YJ...&feature=share
Oh and conserve some water please so the springs have some flow to fight back with when this happens...
The problem is the horizontal resolution from space. You can see big things with high accuracy, but can't see small things....like rivers...or bulges in rivers....Quote:
Originally Posted by gasdiver