Cave diving Cuba?...... Maybe..

So this past weekend at the local dive show ( Our World Underwater) we ran across a booth dedicated to reef diving in Cuba legally. It goes something like you're part of a research outreach program and aiding scientific collaborative efforts blah blah blah..... We asked the question about what kind of collaborative research they need in the caves of Cuba. It turns out it's something that never dawned on them to try and pursue of course in the interest of furthering scientific research into the (prolly) pristine, untouched, knock your socks off cenotes and caves of our southern neighbors. Maybe Wayne (Amigo's) has a grip or a lock on making something like this happen as a part of his gear donation program, I dunno but I'm guessing there are prolly dozens of us that would and could jump at the chance to head down there and explore their cigar factories and rum distilleries...... errr I mean cave systems.... Stand by for more or feel free to chime in if you know anything!!!

I like it! I like it a lot.

Tim,

Be careful when anyone says they will arrange a trip to Cuba legally, a dive shop in Manhattan called PAN AQUA made that very same claim, so a bunch of people went to Cuba to dive the untouched coral, oddly enough they were forced to fly through Canada by the trip coordinator, on the way back (again through Canada) one very upset member of the group stared mouthing off and mentioned that he was returning from a bad trip to Cuba, the problem was that he was complaining to a customs agent and Oh Boy what happened next......everyone on the trip was rounded up and detained, for many many hours, searched, luggage tossed, given desk appearance tickets to appear in Federal Court (and thats the same as being arrested), in the end the customers were fined 3 or 5 thousand each and the organizers were hit much harder, refusal to pay would guarantee jail time of I think a year, not to mention legal fee's that were 10K per person on the low end.

Getting to Cuba legally isnt that hard but you do need to jump through a few hoops, the scientific research reason is popular and works quite well but anyone that goes on one of these trips needs be sure that real permission exists and that should be done through the state department directly, dont take anyones word for anything.

Cuba is amazing.

Don't you have to fly out of Mexico or some other country if you are a US citizen wanting to go to Cuba?

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Originally Posted by TracyN

Don't you have to fly out of Mexico or some other country if you are a US citizen wanting to go to Cuba?

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No, its just as illegal leaving from mx as the us. Several airlines fly direct charter service from the us to Cuba (my employer does) but you need a research or religious reason to legally visit from the us or any other departure port. Furthermore if youre a us citizen in cuba youre going to pay crazy prices from what I've been told. Airline saff can't even leave the airplane and go in the terminal...some people get there illegally via private plane or private boat-- yes you can get away with it, but if you get caught, you'll have to pay.
http://travel.usatoday.com/destinati...-trip/812249/1

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Originally Posted by TracyN

Don't you have to fly out of Mexico or some other country if you are a US citizen wanting to go to Cuba?

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No it is still a felony for any US citizen to travel to Cuba without permission, there are direct flight from the US but they are expensive and again you need permission, the airlines that fly there won't take your money without proper documentation.

If you were inclined to go anyway, the best way to get there would be to fly through the Bahamas, Jamaica, Mexico, also you must ask the customs agent not to stamp your passport, they always agree knowing you are an American and breaking the law.

I would strongly suggest you go to dive and visit, the place is magnificent and really cool, old american cars are everywhere and some are is great shape.

The population welcomes Americans with open arms the crime is low.

Some have been known to go there via the Cayman islands, I've overflown Cuba several times exporting aircraft, just you can't file from the US and have Cuba as the destination, but flight plans filed from other places, like the Cayman's aren't transmitted to the US so that's how you don't get caught.
I think CBP doesn't really care as long as you don't do something stupid like bringing it to their attention.

Hey Jon - I did not know that about the Pan Aqua trip. And I don't remember anything being posted. Got a link or anything for more info?

So how about some info for the rest of the world that dont have travel restrictions. Is there any actual information regarding the cave systems there, being Canadian there are no issues travelling there and i am actually interested in doing so as it is relatively cheap. If there is anyone that can share what little info they may have regarding the caves in cuba it would be greatly appreciated.

Wayne at Amigo's is collecting gear and as far as I can tell has or had contact with a group in Cuba.

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Originally Posted by JTB

So how about some info for the rest of the world that dont have travel restrictions. Is there any actual information regarding the cave systems there, being Canadian there are no issues travelling there and i am actually interested in doing so as it is relatively cheap. If there is anyone that can share what little info they may have regarding the caves in cuba it would be greatly appreciated.

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The best one to ask is Taucher-Tom on this forum. He doesn't login every day, but it is him that has contact with the Cubans. He is from Germany, and also has no travel restrictions.

Although I have not dove in Cuba I thought I might ring in as a Canadian that has travelled there. My dive club is actualy there diving right now, so I might have more dive info in a few days when they return. I spent several weeks travelling Cuba and I have to say I foudn the country very beautiful, the people very nice, and it was very safe. I flew direct from Toronto to Havanna, and was surprised at the number of American's on the flight. I later learned that Air Canada runs the Toronto-Havana flight daily virtualy supported by American travellers. Canadians tend to fly charter companies into the resort towns. I sat with an American on the flight that frequented Cuba and said he really liked the place. I ran into American's while I was there travelling and they had no problems at all. If you try and change US dollars you will get hit hard because Cuba of course can't sell the US$ back to the US banks. My suggestion would be to by Canadian dollars ( not just because I am Canadian) because the US and CAN$ are about par, and you can switch CAN$ pretty easily in Cuba. Customs in Cuba will not stamp your passport, I had to beg them to stamp mine and explain that I was Canadian and that it was OK for me that I would not get in trouble, however being I cross in the US a lot a have gotten a few looks and questions from US Customs regarding my Cuba stamp when they notice it.

As I say, Cuba is a really nice country, there is no panhandling, bums, people bothering you. In fact I had one incident were an old man tried to take and empty beer can off my table at a patio and the police grabbed him and scurried him off while apologizing to me that he dare bother me. They are very protective of tourists.

They have an entirely separate system for tourists, you can travel by bus cheap but very nice buses generaly. I would not drive there myself. As mentioned you can see all the old American cars which is very cool. In front of the capital in Havana they line up the old cars, generaly those that work in the government have the nice ones that are all done up, most the other ones are in pretty rough shape.

The authentic Cuban cigars are very good, and the rum as well is quite tasty, and they go together very very well.

When I was there I stayed in famlies homes, Casa Particularies ( I can't spell very well) it was a great system, only about 25-40$ a night and they treat you like a king and for a few dollars more the woman of the house or servant will cook you all meals and pack you a lunch if you need it for the day.

I personally really like Cuba, and enjoy going back, and hope to go back soon to travel some more, but for me it is very common, I know several people that go throughout the winter here. There is so much history there and I enjoyed travelling and seeing it and learning, and I know some of this is very negative for my US friends, but I was able to see the areas that the Cuban revolution was big, I went to Bay of Pigs, I through the areas where the missle sites were found as part of the missle crisis. For me this was very interesting as I am very interested in cold war era history.

Along with that is of course all the old Spanish history, and some of the small towns I stayed in were amazing with the old colonial buildings. The guys that I know that are diving there were talking about several wrecks, old wooden sailing ships that are sunk that can be dove, and apparently there is quite a bit left over from the pirating that was extensive there.

As for caves, I don't know, but based on the land scape I am sure there must be lots.

Anyhow I will not ramble on about it, and please understand I am just telling my experience, I am not attempting to advocate for anyone to break the law to travel there, that is a personal choice. I am just giving my experience having been there.

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Originally Posted by Lerpy

I had to beg them to stamp mine and explain that I was Canadian

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So I guess your Canadian passport wasn't enough of a clue?

Hey Sludge, ya leaving the country they didn't even look at our passports overly, more concerned with collecting the exit tax, and I almost got the feeling if you were english speaking and not leaving from a resort they assumed you were American. I acutaly did not run into any other Canadian's while I was there. I guess it is driven into them pretty hard do not stamp passports to attempt to protect the American's that travel there.

I have two US passports, it's legal to have at least two.

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Originally Posted by a64pilot

I have two US passports, it's legal to have at least two.

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Ditto but it's still not legal to go without state department permission unless you can glom onto some research group like these folks. Or a religious org... maybe cave diving can be considered a religion?

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Originally Posted by T. Bix

Ditto but it's still not legal to go without state department permission unless you can glom onto some research group like these folks. Or a religious org... maybe cave diving can be considered a religion?

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I like this idea! Tim you could be our cave cult leader. Forrest could be the Idol we worship. Now all we have to do is think of a name. :-)

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Originally Posted by TracyN

I like this idea! Tim you could be our cave cult leader. Forrest could be the Idol we worship. Now all we have to do is think of a name. :-)

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If Ron Hubbard did it, why not. At least cave diving makes sense.

The Karst Church of Aquatic Solace....

Just if you had a passport stamped by Cuba, you don't use that one to get back into the US is all.

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Originally Posted by T. Bix

Ditto but it's still not legal to go without state department permission unless you can glom onto some research group like these folks. Or a religious org... maybe cave diving can be considered a religion?

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Its been my religion. Our Lady of the Deep Wet Hole

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Originally Posted by T. Bix

Wayne at Amigo's is collecting gear and as far as I can tell has or had contact with a group in Cuba.

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Thanks, ive already dropped off some gear,ill ask Wayne next week for more info, in the meantime if anybody does have any valid info dont hesitate to share :-)

Check with Taucher Tom, as he's been there cave diving before and will be going back.
I mentioned this before, but when we went there in the 90's, we flew in and out of Toronto and had no problems. I did tell our US government we were going as journalists and I told the Cubans we were there as tourists. (We were vacationing journalists.)
Back then, there were panhandlers all over the place though and one time we had to go into a government office to get away from them.
Also, I insisted on having my passport stamped as I wanted proof I had been there and when we drove back into the US at Niagara Falls the border guard didn't even see the stamp.
It's a beautiful country and I look forward to going back sometime.

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Originally Posted by a64pilot

Just if you had a passport stamped by Cuba, you don't use that one to get back into the US is all.

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ERRRR how would you reconcile the discrepancy between your passport as presented and the one listed on the Gen. Dec.? Maybe you can do it but if you don't you are tagged for life every time every entry ...... a death sentence in my line of work (and I assume yours). I am trying to find a way to visit legally or at least legal enough to keep my name off of a watch list. My local customs agent once told me he could ruin me over a single Cuban cigar, one single cigar is enough to get you tagged as a smuggler every single time after that your name appears on a General Declaration as either crew or passenger you will be pulled aside and made at least uncomfortable and at most ...... well my company won't tolerate dogs and such every time I'm on board...... Heaven forbid I should have to find a job where I have to punch a time clock and werk for a living..... :)

Ive often thought how cool Cuba would be and was wondering if any non Americans have dove any caves there. I know offshore is awesome but havent heard about the latter, but theres bound to be many unexplored systems.

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Originally Posted by T. Bix

ERRRR how would you reconcile the discrepancy between your passport as presented and the one listed on the Gen. Dec.? Maybe you can do it but if you don't you are tagged for life every time every entry ...... a death sentence in my line of work (and I assume yours). I am trying to find a way to visit legally or at least legal enough to keep my name off of a watch list. My local customs agent once told me he could ruin me over a single Cuban cigar, one single cigar is enough to get you tagged as a smuggler every single time after that your name appears on a General Declaration as either crew or passenger you will be pulled aside and made at least uncomfortable and at most ...... well my company won't tolerate dogs and such every time I'm on board...... Heaven forbid I should have to find a job where I have to punch a time clock and werk for a living..... :)

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Well maybe I am, I once took an aircraft to Guatemala, was told by ground to take it to the aero club. After I got out and went into the building there were two customs types there, one told me for $20 they could expedite customs for me, I knew it wasn't legit, but I was tired so I gave them the bribe. Never thought about not having a stamp in my Passport until I was trying to leave the next day :).
As far as Gen Dec's, I have a friend that never clears on the way out with aircraft, he has some kind of coin that he places under the paper and rubs it with carbon paper or something, looks just like a Customs stamp, been doing it for 20 years, I think Gen Dec's are actually a State Dept. form? CBP folks used to be irritated about having to deal with them.
I don't ferry aircraft anymore, I had an engine go "pop" on me and quit coming back from Oshkosh a couple of years ago, just after I had crossed over that big lake east of Chicago and decided I didn't need that happening to me in the Pacific off the coast of Columbia or Ecuador. Cave diving is safer.
I figure worst case you could just lose your Passport, I never have, I'm sure it would be a hassle, but after the Ruckus, they would have to let you back in, you are a US citizen, right?

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Originally Posted by kwinter

Hey Jon - I did not know that about the Pan Aqua trip. And I don't remember anything being posted. Got a link or anything for more info?

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It was something like 10 years ago my next door neighbor in Manhattan went and had to endure the entire mess, he's an engineer so with his prof license in jeopardy it was very serious, Pan Aqua does a great job of burying complaints on the net but I'll get more info when I see him.

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Originally Posted by stairman

Ive often thought how cool Cuba would be and was wondering if any non Americans have dove any caves there. I know offshore is awesome but havent heard about the latter, but theres bound to be many unexplored systems.

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I know it's not Cuba proper, and not really considered a big deal, but I did spend a year in GTMO. I found a couple of pretty cool small <300' penetration caves that I dove off the coast. Fun stuff. I was not allowed near the caves inland on base. Although at one time they did talk to me about brining a team down to explore the caves, wet and dry, on base and off the coast. That project failed to catch hold. Maybe one day it will work out. They still have my contact info.

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Originally Posted by kwinter

Hey Jon - I did not know that about the Pan Aqua trip. And I don't remember anything being posted. Got a link or anything for more info?

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Hey Ken,

I just talked to my neighbor about the "Cuba incident" the trip took place in 2001 and was without question arranged thru PAN AQUA, my neoghbor just came back from a Michael Feld trip to Raj Um Pot? or something like that where his PAN AQUA serviced Atomic regulator failed. He states that since everyone really got off with a slap on the wrist in spite of the fines but were discouraged from creating a public issue, PAN AQUA did pay the fines on behalf of the customers in exchange for silence.

It was a real mess.

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Originally Posted by FW

The best one to ask is Taucher-Tom on this forum.

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He wrote a GREAT book on the caves of Cuba as well.