I did Mattachuk for the first time in over a year Friday. Crystal clear, decent flow, and the catfish are alive and well.
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I did Mattachuk for the first time in over a year Friday. Crystal clear, decent flow, and the catfish are alive and well.
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Great cave. Very disappointed last time I was there to see people were combatting the flow by pulling on the goethite on the floor. I think this is becoming a site for novice cave divers,and probably not the best choice due to some fragile areas.Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Bil
Nice!!!!!
I went there a couple months ago, cave is definately seeing more traffic of the less coordinated type. The huge turtle shell about 500' back has long since been smashed up, it used to be a nice feature pay mind to...there are still a few reminants left.
I've been going there off and on for several years and I've never seen the shell you speak of. It must have been broken some time ago(or I always missed it). It is delicate and is showing signs of wear just in my short time diving there. Still a stunning little dive though.Quote:
Originally Posted by SuPrBuGmAn
Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk 2
I am sure people who have seen JB,Twin,Hole,and want new challanges are referred here. This cave deserves an honest self evaluation since it is smaller in size. A new purchase of sidemount rig or new certification are probably not ready for this cave. I am not the cave police by any means,just a concerned cave diver for seeing some wear and tear in areas that will never repair in our lifetime.Quote:
Originally Posted by SuPrBuGmAn
Beautiful shot of the cavern. :)
Thanks, I thought it came pretty good for an amateur with an amateur set up.
Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk 2
Jen and I were there a couple months ago and called the dive less than 200' in. The flow was too difficult to swim against and once we got to the goethite we decided it just wasn't worth it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelly Jessop
It was there, but its been broken for several years. I think megahurtz here on CDF used to have a good photo of the shell intact. There are still, as of a month or so ago, pieces of the carapace disperced in that general direction. I don't know how it got jacked up that much.Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Bil
Maybe some fool tried to remove it?Quote:
Originally Posted by SuPrBuGmAn
A cave diver would never do such a thing
A cave diver wouldnt, an idiot would tho.Quote:
Originally Posted by LiteHedded
anybody found the cover of my domeport in there, I lost it in 2009
Catfish probably ate it :-)Quote:
Originally Posted by Taucher-Tom
This stuff Kelly and Mat talk about, its the reason we dont give out locations of caves to just anyone. Hate it has to be that way but you see why.
It's too bad not everyone thinks that way...
Someone(jcook) recently said that they wished me dead because I didn't just give away all the cave locations I know, LOL.
Yep I did (off the forum), though technically I said I hope you get stuck in one of them :roll:. I think locations should be open to everyone. We should discourage those who aren't up to snuff from diving it (instructor's should be more strict), but we should all share these sites with one another for the benefit of all cave divers. If we hide sites, then we are no better than those who keep us out of sites that we are trying to open to everyone.Quote:
Originally Posted by SuPrBuGmAn
Wow I'm actually going to agree on the instructor comment. Now let's see how many caves you give up? I'd like to know just how many hours you have spent in your young diving career walking through woods, driving thousands of miles and missing meals and sleep to find caves? I might be old to you but I will run circles around you young pups any day of the week!! This part is going to sting just a little but I'm going to take your advice....get up to snuff, earn the experience and spend less time on CDF and soon you will have your own list of caves!Quote:
Originally Posted by jcook
Most caves can't take the traffic.
The fact that most people are simply too lazy to do the work to find them keeps alot of them at a decent carrying capacity. I see no reason whatsoever to reward the lazy. These aren't closed sites, they just don't have google directions to their doorstops. Nobody is closing them, they simply aren't doing your homework for you.
As for what you said, here's the direct quote, "I hope to god you get stuck in one of those caves no one knows about so they never find your ass." Pretty sure stuck means dead in this case :P You either said it or not. This is the kind of person you are. Not your best hand at trying to get cave location information.
You are like the rest of them.Quote:
Originally Posted by jcook
I'd say 90% of the "unknown" caves are documented in several places on the internet along with other locations. Do some damn research and quit whining that someone won't draw you a stick map to a cave from your doorstep.
as a side note: if you did send that PM to Mat (warranted or not), it was a pretty crappy representation of your mindset. Mat has his issues, but that type of response is not what I would consider professional or mature.
Now let's get this thread back on topic and post pictures or stories of recent dives in this "off the beaten path" cave.
Wow, stuck in a cave, really? When I had a few less grandchildren and a bit more time, I did a little running with Mat. At that time he had 2 huge binders. I had a boat. Mat has worked his behind off doing the research and finding these caves and filling those binders with data that he worked to get. Then he found some new caves and laid line in them, and.............never mind. Based on your statement you probably don't get it. It's not anybody's job to hand over locations to you, me or anyone. Mat also has stepped up and recovered a really stuck body that was a beast to get to. He has to live with what he witnessed and what he did. It was not a good deal. It took extraordinary steps to ready the body for removal so that his family could grieve and put him to rest. He also volunteers and works to get caves open. You? Mat doesn't need my defense, but he is a true friend and I won't stand silent when someone whines and complains and wishes a friend dead. Sir, you were out of line. MarkQuote:
Originally Posted by jcook
Jordan, with your attitude I wouldnt give you directions to Vortex or Ginnie. Low class there man, grow up.Quote:
Originally Posted by jcook
Ah well, Matt didn't include the context of why I said that to him. I didn't want to point it out on the forum, since I would probably get banned for being "uncivil". But oh well.
He said anyone that served in combat shouldn't be helped at all and they haven't sacrificed anything, he said it was a job and I got paid. And because of that I have a baseless sense of entitlement for free stuff.
FWIW I do go tromp through the woods on a regular basis looking for sinkholes. Granted I haven't done as much as some guys on the forum, but probably a lot more than most. I just don't go brag to everyone that I do it and then rub it in their face if I find a sinkhole. I have found some, but after talking with the landowners, they requested I didn't dive there, so I don't say anything. A couple said I could dive there, but no one else could because they don't want a lot of people on their property. So I just didn't bother diving there. My whole philosophy on cave diving is being able to share the experience with others. Whether it be with me or when someone goes their with others, as long as others know about it and enjoy it, I am happy.
Perhaps the same kind of resistance was met with many of the holes Matt found. You seem to think he has this massive list. Let me tell you, he does! But many are either private, closed or restricted access. Some are public and anyone can find them. I will tell you there is truth to " you attract more flys with sugar then vinegar." Sort of like you get restrictions placed upon you for the words you fail to taste before you spit them! Also plays a big role in the friends you attract. Perhaps the real issue lies there. Perhaps your friends aren't your friends and your enemies arent necessarily your enemies. The saying has to do with a bird and BS. Which you seem to start a lot of. Perhaps you should take a break, go on a hike or two, discover some new place and friends and then learn not to run everyone in the ground with the good old boys routine. I like good old boys but that's because all my friends are only the ones I like and just as many are the ones I do not! You want cave then put your money where your mouth is and let's go diving. You know where to find me and I will even get the gas!
Matt, do you actually believe that crap about combat being a job and not a sacrifice? I know some folks have pretty radicalized opinions and it'd be good to know if you feel that way in order to properly weight your future posts.
OK, I'm a little worried about this post as it can / will easily be misread. :blackbar he is real hard to take. He says what's on his mind, and to heck with the consequences. He also is a little quick to comment, I think sometimes even he thinks he was just maybe a little too brunt in what the says.
I think Matt will be OK with me saying this as I'm :blackbarmyself. My Avatar isn't a Donkey stuck in a well, it's :blackbar. I don't have many friends because of this, I have to bite my tongue often to stay out of trouble.
Don't ask Matt what he thinks about something unless your prepared to hear his complete opinion, he is a very biased person, if he likes something or someone, he will bend over backwards for them, if he doesn't like them, then he wouldn't waste bodily fluids on them if they were on fire. I'm the same way.
I do not think Matt really meant the comment about Combat Vets, because he has no idea what he is talking about, I think maybe he like most think of the bums on the side of the road with their hand out pretending to be Combat Vets, in order to get a free ride.
What he and others don't realize is most Combat Vets don't walk around professing to be. It's like almost anything else, cavediving included, those that do the most talking are usually full of it.
On edit, I think it's Mat isn't it, not Matt?
Yes, his name is Mat.Quote:
Originally Posted by a64pilot
Alright so I don't post too often but I will get in on this one. As a combat vet who is also a friend of Mat I am curious as to why you being a vet would come up in conversation. I have known and dived with Mat for nearly six years and not once have I felt or heard this from him. I have had him show me around here and there over the years and he never asked me about my service to ensure he wasn't hanging out with a vet. Not too sure it ever even came up in conversation although I have showed up to dive sites in uniform before having driven straight from work so it's not like I was hiding it.Quote:
Originally Posted by jcook
So to complete your purpose of showing us the context of the conversation could you fill in all the blanks in the discussion. It is possible his problem is you and not your background. Not knowing you or the situation/conversation I can't say.
Thanks for your service though.
He said I didn't know what sacrifice was, so I said yes I do and explained to him that I have gone on multiple combat deployments. I am very proud of what I did, if people ask I will tell them.
p.s. mdax, RLTW!
Seems odd that people are so proud of being :blackbar2. It takes no effort, brains or courage, just a willingness to offend. I don't know of anyone whose opinion matters to me or that I respect, who prides themselves on something like that. Different strokes for different folks I suppose.
Then include the context.Quote:
Originally Posted by jcook
Actually, here's the direct quotes.Quote:
Originally Posted by jcook
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mat
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jordan
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mat
I've got nothing to hide. <--note the period.
I respect active servicemen and veterans. Read the quotes and understand the context. He says he volunteered for the military and is therefor entitled to whatever he wants without having to do any of his own footwork now that he's back. People who sign up for the military get paid, get benefits, get my respect, and even a free meal here and there. When they lean on that past service for some sort of entitlement, you lose my respect. If you joined the military for some sort of entitlements, you didn't do it for noble reasoning, you did it for a paycheck.Quote:
Originally Posted by mdax
No worries dude, you're right on target ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by a64pilot
He apparently thinks he's entitled to all the results of others hardwork because he was in the service. Shawn, you and every one of my other past and present military buddies have never leaned on their services for entitlement.Quote:
Originally Posted by rotor60driver
I will happily share with anyone the full, unabridged conversation. I think people should know how this guys mind works.
The other thing I didn't post about Mat is arguing with him is like wallowing in the mud with a Hog.
I'd suggest you not even try, because you'll probably get all frustrated and furious, but Mat loves it :)
I know when I am wrong and I will apologize for what I said to Mat. Since I am unsure if he got my message to him, I will post it here.
You know what Mat, I am sorry about what I said. I don't want you to get stuck in a cave. I overreacted to what you said. I realized with some afterthought, I don't hate you or anything like that. I really feel sorry for you.
And no I don't feel entitled to anything because of my service, you misunderstood my response.
OK first off I will admit in front of everyone that you offered to chat about our differences and I haven't had time to reply, but I will admit you at least deserve one and I will try to find time to do it soon.Quote:
Originally Posted by jcook
Everyone is all for sharing where caves are...until they know where they're at, then they don't want to share. So long as you live in a fantasy world where instruction quality is going to get better or divers will respect their limits (neither of those two things will happen), then sharing every location is fine. Until then, there's a desire to keep secrets.
I learned that spending half as much time asking to participate in permits as you do bitching about them gets you on the permit. Spending half as much time getting to know a few active divers as you do bitching about not sharing gets you more info than you would have even known to ask. Your blog criticizes the DIR community for no good reason, Kevin's recent organization hasn't even made it to their 2nd month and you're already challenging them. Active divers who are willing to share info get PM's from you saying you hope they die. A new shop opens in Tally with divers who are attempting to start an active exploration community get criticized before they open by you. You volunteer for the CDS and then the first hiccup you hit with one individual whom you called out hardcore on here, you're blasting a member on Facebook in the public eye. You post that you legally dove a site and then when we exchange PM's about my last discussion with the owner you ask FW to delete your post. Maybe you are your own worst enemy?
Gee, I hope to one day receive an apology like that from someone...Quote:
Originally Posted by jcook
One day he will grow up. Have my doubts but I hope so.Quote:
Originally Posted by Slüdge
New rule for posting. Much like what my instructor taught me during cave training with a twist for forums and pm's.
Stop-Breath-Think-Breath-Think-Breath-Post
Good one! :-DQuote:
Originally Posted by rotor60driver
I'll try to explain at least what I mean about me. I'm just not very good at being social, many people are real good at it, they smile and lie to your face, and are real popular. They know when to be fashionably late etc . If you tell me to be somewhere at eight, I'm there at eight, and when you show up at 8:15, I'm mad. I don't remember names very well at all, and I just don't know how to "play" people, I'm very often misunderstood, because in part I'm just pretty blunt, and it sometimes seems I'm not being nice, but really I'm trying to be, I just mess it up.Quote:
Originally Posted by mdax
I'm very good at machinery / equipment, but not people.
If I were young, I would have been diagnosed with Aspergers syndrome, but I'm not, I'm older, so I'm diagnosed as an (what I called myself). Once you get to know me, I think almost always I'm liked, once people understand I'm not trying to be rude, it's just the way I am. But, if you don't know me, your likely to come away thinking (what an *******)
I think you're awesome, but you share your name can go both ways with the female persuation. So even though you have a hot wife, maybe your gay? ;) JK so you know.
I got jcook's apology, same "sincere" one he posted here... I guess we can agree on being sorry for each other?
So who wants to go on a dive? :)
I do!!!
That's for me correct? I'm only sure of very few things, as things I thought I was sure of have turned on me in the past. One thing I am sure of is I'm not Gay, even being inept socially, I know that was meant as a joke.Quote:
Originally Posted by SuPrBuGmAn
I am diving both tomorrow, in Marianna and on Sun. in the flint river if anyone wants a dive partner, I'll be scootering in Marianna, but not in the river cave.
Yeah, for you, and a joke... and very poorly typed(and not even a funny joke). Had a few drinks last night then jumped online :) Probably a good thing I didn't do too much posting.
I'd much rather have friends like you than the ones that smile and lie to your face, and are real popular. I've known a few of those and it never turns out good.Quote:
Originally Posted by a64pilot
It would be a much nicer world if you truly new what people was thinking.
It is also entirely possible to be introverted, honest, punctual and nice.
It is also entirely possible to be introverted, honest, punctual and nice.
True
There was a movie on that topic. It isn't as nice as it would seem.Quote:
Originally Posted by roguediver
I used to wonder what it'd be like to read other people's minds. Then I got a Facebook account, and now I'm over it.Quote:
Originally Posted by roguediver
I'm thinking 'It would be a much nicer world if you truly knew what people were thinking.' Hmm, maybe not.
Dont want to read people's minds. I'm scared enough being able to read mine. I'm talking more of a one on one base. If someone don't like me, I wish they would just tell me. And vise versa. It's not being rude. I know a lot of people are not like this and it's ok. But I also don't like someone being rude just for the purpose of being rude.
What was the move?
Are you taking about the Mel Gibson movie?Quote:
Originally Posted by FW
That is one.Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesK
Check out The Invention of Lying, far more entertaining than this thread.