I ran across this article this afternon.
Does anyone have any further info on this?
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8998472/
Edit - This makes it sound more like a sump accident.
http://www.lasvegassun.com/sunbin/st...081805856.html
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I ran across this article this afternon.
Does anyone have any further info on this?
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8998472/
Edit - This makes it sound more like a sump accident.
http://www.lasvegassun.com/sunbin/st...081805856.html
Looks like a free diving accident. Only 15 feet of passageway between the chambers. I would imagine though, after a bunch of people going back and forth that there probably wasn't any breathable air left in the chamber.Quote:
Originally Posted by OFG-1
Just my speculation though.
First person in line gets snagged, takes a little too long and holds everyone else up... It wouldn't take much.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050818/...us/cave_search[/url]
I've seen the 'eyes of darkness' a few times, & often it is painfull-! Once while water skiing & our own ski boat nailed me from behind....Again when a wealthy 'drunk' knocked me from a brand new T140 Bonneville MC, while heading to Florida to live; and a third time with mere seconds to clip off my back-up regulator. All of which were educational & instrumental to my own survival, from which I truly savor life.
The light of which I speak of, comes from being in the right place at the right time: Three OW divers beyond the CDS sign in LR, with their BC's fully inflated & clawing at the walls & ceiling to get out. Swimming back from a 55 minute solo excursion in this wonderous cave I noticed my line all over the place just before the tie off, along with the tremdous amount of silt being kicked up. Looking up & seeing three pairs of fins kicking frantically moved me into action, & making the right decisions. Yanking on each one's leggs, I deflated their BC's & motioned to the 'doorway' out of LR.......They all survived....& I was sick to my stomach, as it could have gone the other way. They waited for me to complete Deco & then we had a long talk on the benefits of training & the right equipment in caves. I've told this story before, & most of you have probably paid little attention to it. There is a moral to this story & that is:
Why do we take un-educated risks when training & education is readily available-? I cannot answer this, but it saddens me deeply that again, four innocent lives are taken, when with the right information & training available to them, they would more than likely still be here with us.
For what its worth....I hope that everyone will take this to heart & re-evaluate your own worth & to be educated & trained the proper way to begin with. I am thankful for Ary, Chip, Cindy & other close friends who hold my own well being first.
Jack
This is very sad. I feel for these people. I have done one or two duck under swims myself and they always scared the cr** out of me! It's too bad four lives were lost. Another good reason as Jack points out to have the right gear and the best skills. A little tank for each of those people might have helped. Who really knows though what the circumstances of our own deaths will be. Cindy :(
The rescue story is, sadly, a rare one, and one that I had not heard previously...I for one, would like to see a thread devoted to these (rescue reports, as opposed to recoveries).Quote:
Originally Posted by JE
And I would like to go on record as giving thanks to Sheck, Mary Ellen, Wes, MW and LG (instructors), and Don Stadler, Mark Ullman, Lake City Tom, and Ary (buddies, past and present), and ALL friends and aquaintances who have contributed to MY well-being and ongoing learning of the Art and Craft.
Norm
All FYI regarding the sump incident.
Portions of the person filing preliminary recovery report
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -- --
Four died in a Utah Cave near Provo. They tried to free swim though a 14
foot sump. It appears they were on the way out. All were found in the
water filled 4 foot tall passage.
This cave has seen visitaion for more than 10 years. I has now been sealed
off.
more info at
http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/08/18/cav....ap/index.html
We took CO readings of 0 and O2 never got below 19. In my shorty wet suit the water felt about 60 degrees. The four had been burning candles in the mine shaft but we did not find any in the cave proper
Redacted
Utah County Sheriff SAR
Utah Cave Search and Rescue
Institute of Emergency Services and Homeland Security
Back when Dry Caves were part of Cavern training, I did Bat Cave in a time of high water...Don't remember the passage (Sidewinder or Serpintine or something like that) name, but it was a LOW crawl alternate route on the left to the Big Room...had to remove the helmet, put it in front, turn your head and hold your breath for about 4 (seemingly endless) feet...gave me the Jeebies...Quote:
Originally Posted by Cindy
Norm
After doing some searching, I have found the following:
1. It was not a cave, it was a mine.
2. The victems were not "cavers", just local students.
3. Using candles would have added CO2 to the air, causing blackout.
It is still sad.
I agree with Cindy, I don't do "duck unders" without a regulator handy.
14x4 tunnel... Maybe it is one of the few situations when solo would be beneficial. It is sad news, i feel sorry for their relatives.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Hill
The problem was communication. The second one through didn't know the first didn't make it, same for 3 and 4. They didn't have enough air (breath) to return once they discovered the problem.Quote:
Originally Posted by ARY
Posted after calling for permissionQuote:
Originally Posted by FW
Tom
Hello Everybody,
I was at the scene in the function of a Rescue Diver. None of the rescuers dove the sump as the distance, conditions, etc. were not known. These kids were not scuba- or free-diving. They were wearing jean cut-offs and T-shirts. They were simply holding their breath and following a guide-line (which had been in place for nobody knows how long) to get to a small cavern where locals had been having parties for nobody knows how long. The cave has a split just prior to the sump that goes off about 150' and is dry throughout. Neither the police nor fire department nor any other government agencies even knew this site existed. It is believed to have been dug out many years ago by a landowner who had a dream that a gold vein was there. A small pure-water spring now exits the cave at about 5 gallons/minute. From the cave entrance you crawled a short distance to a "sump" that is about 15' long and 5' deep. The kids would climb into the water, hold their breath, follow the guide-line, and come out the other side into the cavern where there were candles, etc. placed by previous people. The water is about 45 degrees Fahrenheit and the cavern is typical mountain-cave temp of < 60 f. It is very sad that these 4 died but it has been determined that numerous other kids have almost died as they passed back and forth through the sump. The cave entrance was sealed shut yesterday with rocks and concrete. Interestingly, the oxygen monitor in the cavern behind the sump read 22%, while the same monitor registered 20.5% outside the cave.
Wendell Nope
Utah DPS Dive Team
wnope@utah.gov
The real sad part here is that untrained individuals just caused a cave to be sealed off :cry:
[
Back when Dry Caves were part of Cavern training, I did Bat Cave in a time of high water...Don't remember the passage (Sidewinder or Serpintine or something like that) name, but it was a LOW crawl alternate route on the left to the Big Room...had to remove the helmet, put it in front, turn your head and hold your breath for about 4 (seemingly endless) feet...gave me the Jeebies...
Norm[/quote]
The paasage you refer to is "The Awful Earful" and it sumps at times of high water. There was a drowing in Bat Cave in a similar passage between the frog pool, around 1988 I beleive. Almost the same situation as Utah kids, 17 to 20 years old, they had been drinking in this case though, and doing the sump back and forth between rooms multiple times. Last kid through on the way out didn't make it, swam up a side passage and that was the end.
Recovery divers brought the body out.
Brian