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As I am getting sick of my so-called friends asking me to service their regs for beer *cough* Jason *cough* :?. I would like to give a free clinic on how to service ones own regs. My only question is there any liabilities I would have to worry about? I am not going to certify anyone as a reg tech, just do something for the cave community. If anyone would like to throw out a place to do it in cave country, I would be more than happy if we could get a group of people together.
I'm in for it, if nothing more than to learn about all of the inner workings of my regs!
What kind of beer do you like? I mean, yes I would be interested it my schedule allowed. Nice of you to offer.
Jordon, PM me. I used to be the go to guy for Haskels and it was OK as long as I didnt have real work to do. I still do one or two a year for friends but it was tough to dissuade the masses. Maybe I can shed some light. I doubt a class will get you off the hook. It will only add a bunch more half educated questioneers....
Do you hold certifications from any major brands?Quote:
Originally Posted by jcook
I would be interested from knowing how the reg worked as opposed to servicing my own.
I certainly would like to learn a little more about the inner workings of my regs.
Not sure, but the shop I used to work at had me service Scubapro, Atomic, HOG, Mares, Apeks, Hollis, Sherwood, and a few more. Hence why I am doing this for free. I would talk to the reps for the companies and they introduced me as the service tech. I would heckle them for an actual course but they told me to read the service manual because that is all that would be taught anyways. The Scubapro rep told me to watch the DVD, lol. The hardest part for most regs is having the proper proprietary tools. There was a guy that used to work with me that held a lot of certifications and he screwed up more regs than I could count. Not little stuff either, stuff any idiot should have been able to see.Quote:
Originally Posted by Slüdge
Do you need a certification to work on your car Russell? Any idiot can service a reg.
sounds like you don't hold any official certifications through the major brand names. this doesn't mean you don't know how to work on regs, just that those brands don't count you as a service tech. most of these clinics are held at major industry trade shows like DEMA, beneath the sea, and boston sea rovers. you have to be a scuba professional and attending with a registered dive shop to go to the repair tech clinics. the rub is, the clinics are geared to those that have worked on regs in the past. i took a sherwood tech course and a mares tech course through the dive shop i worked for about 8 years ago with limited experience and found them to be difficult to say the least. but if you are rebuilding regs through a registered dealer without the manufacturer's blessing, you are opening yourself and the shop up to a whole lot of liability. doing your own work is one thing, but most major brands will not send rebuild parts kits to nondealers.
Again, I am not doing this clinic to certify anyone. Just to show people how to work on their own stuff, as I believe every tech diver should know how to service their own gear. If people don't want to learn it isn't any hair off my butt.
Still, I would worry about liability. I'll let people watch me service regs, but I wouldn't "teach" anybody how to do it.Quote:
Originally Posted by jcook
I would be interested if you do it in Atlanta.
Did you not read my first post? I asked about liability issues. The only liability I know of is if I charged people for servicing their gear, hence a FREE clinic.Quote:
Originally Posted by Slüdge
Jeeze, pressure testing your lights and GoPro housing wasn't enough!?!? lol I would probably do it somewhere in cave country. If you want me to show you in Atlanta and you happen to have some beer and Mellow Mushroom pizza, we can work something out.Quote:
Originally Posted by gasdiver
I believe showing someone the inner workings of a regulator and all the parts and pieces that are replaced by a qualified manufactures rep could be good information. You should (IMHO) discourage anyone from working on their regs themselves. (Liability). If a diver decides to use the information provided to actually work on their regs and you told them not to, then any liability would be on their shoulders. Don't create unnecessary exposure.
It's not the information, it's the presentation.
Keith M. Ivey
Then call it watch me service my reg. What a bunch of bs if you ask me, you want to help the community, do something for free, don't certify anyone but need to be worried a out liability. Something is wrong with this lawsuite driven life.
Anyhow, check with a law professional to be certain, nobody else should give legal advise. You might consider having people sign a waiver to be sure.
For me I think its a great opportunity. I've been part of one of the official service instructions to service mares regs. It was nothing else than watch me what I do and then the opposite way. A few beers later while the jewelry ultrasonic cleaned did its work and he was certified to work on those regs.
I would definitely be interested.
Thanks for offering. And you wonder why we will never get private property open to dive? The fact that you even have to worry about it sucks
Count me in if you do the observation clinic in cave country sometimes between November and April.
Gabe
Great offer and sounds like a fun get together. Please post where you decide to do this. Lawyers and other litigious types stay home.
I too would be interested if someone twists your arm enough to do something in the Atlanta area. I can make a a beer / pizza donation for the gathering that would in no way be related to the demonstration.Quote:
Originally Posted by gasdiver
For the people who want one in Atlanta, please PM me and I will see if we can work something out. We would need to find someone with a large garage or shed to hold it in.
I could really care less about liability at this point. All the people complaining about it makes me want to do the clinic more than once. I am all about knowledge being free, especially when people think that reg techs are some kind of geniuses, they aren't. If you can tie your own shoes, you can service your own regs (except Poseidon, lol). Anybody who says reg clinics are difficult, is flat out lying. I have seen people go to ones blackout drunk and still pass the class.
I'm also interested. Sounds like a good time!
Did you not read my response? I said you SHOULD be concerned.Quote:
Originally Posted by jcook
Exactly.Quote:
Originally Posted by huxley
If working on regs is so easy, then why is everyone always complaining that they can't find a competent reg tech? (I'm asking because I want to know.)Quote:
Originally Posted by jcook
I have no idea why anyone would want to give a *free* clinic to people they don't know when they're unsure about liability. I would ask the NACD board how they feel about volunteering their time right about now before you commit to anything.
Just my $0.02.
In this day and age you could be held (well taken to court and found to be held) accountable for many things and that really sucks. I am an electrician and when someone ask me for advice I am cautious to give out much info, many times I will just go and help them out or do it for them. I will draw out how to wire a three way switch or four ways switch set up for a friend, could I be held responsible maybe but being that the state of Maine does allow home owners to do their own electrical work except for services I doubt they would win, but hey if someone has enough money and connections they just might.
If you do something in cave country in November or ever in Maine I would be interested if at the very least to learn more of the inner workings....
What are folks doing with the Salvo's I assume there is folks in Cave Country that can service these? Also I have a reg that was sold in the community several years ago. it is a Chinese first stage very simple design. It came with the rebuild kit when you bought it. It was sold by a lady that I have no idea what her name was. I did the first service myself with my LDS friends looking over my shoulder but now I need part. Anyone got any idea the reg I'm talking about based on this really bad description?
It's the same company that makes all the other crappy regulators. You can get them serviced nearly anywhere, EE, Dive Rite, Russell, etc.Quote:
Originally Posted by curtschu
You can be sued for anything ay anytime. If you live your life in fear, the terrorist win
Because a lot of the shops hire college students to work part time. Yes I know I'm fixing to get flamed by that statement but I'm too old to care. A few years back when Mark had Fill Express he offered a course on regulator repair and what he found out was that when the students saw what was involved for a complete rebuild, they opted to pay the price of the shop doing the job with a better understanding of how the regulator worked. For those that are mechanical incline and you have a lot of regulators then it would be to your advantage to learn how to repair them. I am factory certified to work on Atomic, DiveRite, and Shearwood products and I know for a fact it is NOT rocket science. All it takes is practice, which you CAN'T get by rebuilding two or three regulators a year.Quote:
Originally Posted by MK7
Fred Summerlin
Yes, but the lawyers lose! LolQuote:
Originally Posted by offroadr1
I would come to a gathering of folks hanging out, swapping dive stories, and working on regulators.
Jordon, thanks for the offer and was really forward to seeing if a few of us from NC could put it into our plans while in cave country or heading to Ga for a day. So do you, "demostrate" how to rebuild Poseidon reg? That is the ones I own.
If you are only going to rebuild one or two regs a year, its worth it to pay someone. If you dont do it often, you tend to forget the little tricks and tweaks. And as someone posted, you'd need to invest in some brand specific tools and it really helps to have a bench station setup so you can test intermediate pressure, have a vice handy, etc. Parts for some are tricky to find, but if you look hard enough, they are out there. The manuals will get you 90% of the way, but you'll really need to sit with someone to show you the tricks and adjustments.
I found that initially I spent something like $300 to set up a station with guages, compressed air, special tools, lubricants, cleaner...
***Disclaimer***** No one should ever ever ever, for any reason work on regulators unless they are properly trained and certified to do so. (there you go, you lawyer schmucks)
Many years ago when I was still just a simple recreational diver I got curious about regulators. It was time for my regs to get serviced, but before I took them in I sat down at my workbench and took them apart. I took careful notes so I could put them back together in the right order. I found it interesting, but then I took them to the shop for a full service. These were US Divers Micra second stages with SEA first stage.
A couple of years later I got into technical diving and eventually got trained as a cave diver. I purchased Apeks regs for back gas. Same general idea, I took them apart before a service and put them back together. Eventually I found a slide show presentation on the web for my Apeks. At the next service I did it myself, but was prepared to take them to a shop if things looked even the slightest bit wrong. Fortunately for me it was all good. The first few dives were in a quarry to keep things safe just in case. To accomplish this service I purchased a few more tools.
Fast forward a few more years and I purchase some HOG regulators. This was part of a plan that included formal instruction so I could service my own regulators. The class was great, and I feel comfortable doing work on my own regulators. As part of this class I actually had to read a text, and spend more money on tools.
I don't work on other peoples regulators for free or for money.
The problem with the proposed class detailed in this thread is that it opens you up to being sued. Sure, I think you would probably win. The defense that you can buy brake parts for your car would probably support your position. Unfortunately the time and expense of defending yourself, or at least the potential of needing to defend yourself is the risk. It would be great if people took responsibility for their own actions, and there are lots of people who do. The problem is the few that would rather sue than admit that they made a mistake themselves and take responsibility.
Mark Vlahos
Fred, you are entirely right. I just happened to be a tech diver that was going back to college, so I got a job as a service tech. The large majority of service techs are college kids, that way the shop can pay them minimum wage and if something happens to the reg, they can blame the college kid who probably shouldn't have been working on the reg in the first place.Quote:
Originally Posted by SlowDiver
Not sure why a lot of you guys are complaining about me giving advice to people who probably will eventually rebuild their own regs at some point. I would rather them know how to do it properly than just wing it. For those of you wondering where to find service manuals, here you go.
http://scubaadventures.eu/index.php/...-owner-manuals
http://frogkick.dk
If anyone needs clarifications I would be more than happy to assist. I will say I don't know some of the older regs that well and I will never touch another Poseidon for as long as I live after my last rebreather had them for the 1st stages and ADV. It does look like there will be a get together in Atlanta. We need 4-5 guys with completely different types of regs, just so everybody gets a taste of different brands and how they work. I will NOT be able to get you service kits, you will need to find your own (not very hard in cave country or online).
I need to get around more. I don't think I've ever seen a shop tech who was in college. All of them I know are old geezers like me.
Well Jordan if Tracy's going so am I and yes there's liability but not as much as the public thinks, but please remember the GOLDEN RULE:Quote:
Originally Posted by TracyN
"Your chances of acquittal are ALWAYS better if you leave no witnesses"
Sad thing is, there was an old geezer who would come in and pick up some regs at the shop I used to work at (the asst. manager was good friends with him). He did the WORST job imaginable, I taught another college kid that worked with me how to work on the regs that we got from the old guy, since they were always screwed up.Quote:
Originally Posted by Slüdge
And me! haha ::joy Also need to add sick and filthy to the list of required qualifications. I'm sure that Red would agree with that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Slüdge
Look, if any of you folks are really serious about wanting to play the regulator servicing game, suggest that you read this first, if you haven't already: http://www.safecavediving.com/docume..._Regulator.pdf
Cheers
Really? That is common sense stuff. If someone doesn't know that, they shouldn't be diving to begin with.....or driving a car for that matter. This gets brought up all the time, it isn't hard to service your own regulators. It is always people who work at or own shops, that try to scare people from servicing their own equipment.Quote:
Originally Posted by stickydeco
So it is okay for someone who doesn't know what they are doing to tinker with a 2 ton car or truck and drive it on the highway. Possibly endangering people other than themselves. I have seen many "competent and motivated" service techs that had no place being in a service area. Just because you went to a seminar and have the proper tools and parts in front of you, doesn't mean you know what you are doing or are doing it correctly.
Dude: Did you really look at it? It is a basic "Go-By" for folks who do want to work on their own equipment!Quote:
Originally Posted by jcook
Go forth and have a regulatin good time......
Me too, I have half a dozen Poseidons. I would not mind paying an economy flight ticket to Finland and some pizza+beer for someone with suitable experience and willingness to demonstrate how he/she oxygen cleans and rebuilds his/her own Poseidon regs. Likewise, I am willing to pay a fair price for a dozen service kits as well...Quote:
Originally Posted by TONY CHANEY
Or, I could travel almost anywhere on the globe to watch this demonstration or even attend a real course. Almost = excluding countries which require full set of finger prints and/or retina scans to enter the country. (sorry)
I would also be interested in the one in ATL area.
Is a cave country class still in the works, or is it only Atlanta now?
The cave country class is still in the works. I have 2 definite's in Atlanta, I need 2 or 3 more people to make the class good. PM me if you want to come, it will be in November at the earliest. If we run out of room and have more people, I will try to do another class in Atlanta. I am still going to do the class in cave country, I just haven't gotten any ideas on when or where we can hold it at in FL. So far it looks like we will go over anything made my Ocean Divers Supply http://www.oceandivers.com.tw (HOG, Dive Rite, Salvo, etc.). Also I know one of the guys has Scubapro Mk25's and G250's. I will show Atomics also if someone has some in Atlanta.Quote:
Originally Posted by ktomlinson
Quote:
Originally Posted by MK7
Because some of those underpaid guys just don't care. They do.t have the right tools or parts for those regs but get them on the table. It's bot their business so they don't care.
Some care and you will get a good service.
Depending on when you do it I have a aqualung legend lx supreme that I will need to take apart soon.
We could make pics and if others are interstes in aqualung regs. I did a few older ones before. All my other ones, apeks and others I serviced recently.
Let me know details, if I have time I would like to swing by.
Just better check and see what it can open you up for leagal reasons. If you SHOW how to service and a diver does it and then has a accident then the family might have something to say that a unqualified person showed him how in a class/clinic, what every you call it and if there are several people there and even if MONEY does not change hands then you are looking at an area that might be in a GRAY area and kind of could bite you later on.
SLIM
I would like to attend in Cave country.
Myself plus one if in Marianna or Tally.
I might be able to manage either location.
That's funny. I have worked on aircraft, trucks, cars, houses, yards, pools, computers and yes dive gear. Never once has ANY family member ever asked me where I got the training.Quote:
Originally Posted by SLIM
I offered to do this clinic in my basement/shop. I've got tools and work benches, but not a tremendous amount of room. It will have to be limited to 6 people including Jordan. We are looking at Saturday 11/17 as the tentative date (I've got to clear this with my wife before I can confirm it.) Anyway, I live in Alpharetta, GA 2 miles east of GA 400 off Old Milton Parkway. There is a Taco Mac at the entrance to my neighborhood, so hot wings and cold beer are close at hand!
Jordan is managing the list, but my dive buddy and I are on it, so there are 3 slots left. PM Jordan to get on the list and me for detailed directions.
-Capel English
Look, I haven't read this, but in my time, no one wanted to have to go the the free clinic, particularly ones that were ran in someone's basement or workshop.
Has anyone ever died as a result of a mistake you may or may not have made? Plaintiff's lawyers can really stretch things...Quote:
Originally Posted by TONY CHANEY
yeah, but in your time everything could be cured with just a penicillin shotQuote:
Originally Posted by OFG-1
Quote:
Originally Posted by jcook
I would like to take this course as many regs are very different and it never hurts to learn more.
Thanks for offering and IMO I could give a rats ass about liability of someone showed me how to fix a reg.
Typical, offer something for free and "morons" come out of the woodwork chastising you for offering your time for NO pay.
To clarify I was not calling any one specific person here a moron, it was a general statement.
Come on Russell, you know better than than that? No...but I know the extent of my knowledge and simply don't go pass it. How about you? Better question I guess would be: Has anyone on here every been in the situation of a lawsuit because they showed someone how to repair a piece of dive gear? I feel that someone who worked on a divers reg that died has a better chance of a lawsuit than someone who showed a diver how to service a reg. Oh well, I guess IMHO, one thing worse than a lawsuit happy society is a society afraid of a lawsuit.Quote:
Originally Posted by Slüdge
He asked a question about liability in his first post. I gave my opinion that he's opening himself up to a potential lawsuit.
Have I recommended nobody take him up on it? No. You're all big boys and girls.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slüdge
Everyone is scared of potential lawsuits! Everybody needs to stay home locked up in their safe room!
The legal system in this country will be the death of sports and fun!
Jordan, I'll sign a waiver holding you harmless for any knowledge passed on that I may have applied.improperly causing my own demise. :)
Speaking to the liability issue, I'm not so sure that being a factory authorized rep relieves you of liability, so really what's the difference?
Coverage under the shop liability insurance.Quote:
Originally Posted by ktomlinson
I get it now Rus after reading the orginal post. Sorry if I misunderstood your posting.Quote:
Originally Posted by Slüdge
Okay, okay guys we don't need to argue about liability anymore. I am going to do the clinic for sure. I am still trying to figure out where we can do it in FL. We have a tentative date and location for the Atlanta one.
So far we have 3 people who are definitely going of the 6 slots, I PM'ed the others who wanted to do it in Atlanta. If something happens and we cannot get another clinic set up after the 6 spots are filled, I would be more than happy to help someone out one on one.
If you haven't PM'ed me about the clinic in Atlanta and you want to come, please do so!!!
I can get us a place in cave country.
I don't know. The guy who showed me how to work on ScubaPro regs was a certified technician, but he was also inclined to drink while "teaching" me. I guess I still picked up enough to not get killed too often.Quote:
Originally Posted by Slüdge
I guess I won't mention that Sludge has given me "tips". Certainly not direction, and I don't believe ever in writing :)
Feel free to join one of our work shops! The more chances for divers to learn, the better it is.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jcook
I will be at the Light Monkey get together, so if someone wants to hit me up there I will be more than happy to help or if Curt can get me a area where I can give a quick class. Though it may be hard to pull me away from free beer and BBQ.......
So if anyone wants a quick reg class, I will be at REACT. Just hit me up when you are there.
will do. i have a free flowing reg i was gonna open up this week and look at, but ill save it till then!
The "observation" clinic is going to be held tomorrow at my house in Alpharetta. If you need directions, please send me a PM.
-Capel