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What is considered to be an "Advanced" cave dive?
I was told by my Intro to Cave Instructor that it was an overhead environment that exceeded 120 feet in depth.
Another factor was visibility that should be considered "Advanced" if vis was less than 20 feet.
What other factors should be considered when making a determination of an "Advanced" cave dive? Non-book answers are sought.
Best wishes and safe caving,
Ken Roop
Anytime you're diving with TJ it's considered an advanced cave dive....due to the additional responsibility/task loading of babysitting him.. :-D
Mike
Hey Ken,
It's Craig from Gainesville. Sorry I have not called any time recently...been busy makin' a livin'.
As for your question. In my humble opinion:
An advanced dive is any dive that the team feels a possible complication could increase the task loading and skill requirements of the dive to any significant degree above the "lazy" planned tourist dive. Thus, things like 1. New team members, 2. stage bottles, 3. Scooters, 4. new cave passage, 5. any new gear addition/modification, 6. Not being in the water for over a few weeks (A BIG problem), 7. Less than ideal vis, 8. of course depth, etc.
To me are all concerns than make the dive "Advanced" because they have the possibility of ending that way... The actual cave chosen and route, depth and duration of the dive are misleading in deciding on what is advanced or not. However, these known details are easier to factor...
Let's see, difficult entry: very steep sided sinks like Alachua. Divers have been bent there because the cave is deep and the effort of taking the equipment up the hill has to be factored into decompression. Caves with lots of restriction, caves with halocline, caves with great depth combined with lots of jumps. Caves that require Tri Mix. Caves that combine two or more of those factors.
Caves that require excellent buoyancy skills. Siphon caves with high flow.
That would be a good start on a list. Cindy :D
Ken:
There are several elements to what can be considered an "advanced" cave dive, but the more obvious ones are:
Diving to depths well below 130' which require Trimix and multiple decompression gas mixes
Swimming or scootering extremely long penetration distances and requiring the need for one or more stage bottles
Being exposed to a combination of low visibility and tight restrictions
I have been full cave certified for 20 years and have never heard of a "lazy tourist dive" being an option before. Please define this type of dive.
Not to be too mean but our running joke is that if there is a picknick table at the site, steps, showers and porta potties, that's a tourist dive. You can of course make a tourist dive and advanced dive but for most it's a tame cave site. I would however love to take you to places where one of those things are present if you promice to carry my tanks. So you can see for yourself what the difference is, Cindy :lol:
Cindy I'll carry your tanks anytime you want to take me to some of the cool out of the way hardcore dive sites you have snuck into over the years.....I love the idea of find a hole in the ground kinda diving !!!
Once you have experienced your first one, you will know what cave diving is really all about. It is a real rush to emerge from the sink with a big ole grin on your face and report to others that it goes :DQuote:
Originally Posted by CaveDivingCop
Cindy:
One place that comes to mind when I think about a "tourist dive site and an advanced cave dive" all-in-one is making the 3000'+ penetration to The CourtYard at Madison Blue Springs. I remember my first dive there very well - 60 minutes going in, 48 minutes coming out. :-D
I think the most advanced dive would be swimming (yes swimming) 10000 feet plus downstream in a flowing siphon and back out. Oh wait, that's been done.
There are picnic tables at the Nest :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Cindy
There may be tables at the nest but no showers and I can assure you no potty for us girls. If you fellows don't like my definitions then make up your own! I'm not under fire here, it's kind of a silly subject anyway. Think about it. Depending on your own personal comfort leval and training level what defines an advanced dive changes. Orange grove cavern is an advanced dive if it's your first. Now don't bug me, I'm putting on my fuzzy bunny slippers and having a glass of wine. I am not allowed to post when pissed. Cindy :)
Yeah....like Cindy said!
Angie after a hard day of helping three teenage girls understand that Shakespeare was cool because Romeo & Juliet is 500 yr old soft pornography....
"Wouldest I that I had what I gave to thee without asking for then I mayest give it unto some other".
Translation:
You took my virginity but right now I'm pissed at you about something unrelated. So I wish I could take it back and give it to someone else. (BURN!)
Oh Romeo art thou concerned regarding fare love's displeasure? Your kiss is so formal.
Translation:
What's wrong? You just kissed me like my brother. It was good for me. Was it not good for you too?
:roll: Some things never change. :lol:
Time for a beer. Cheers Cindy!
Hey Ken, give me a buzz, we are heading up to cave country for the last weekend in August.......................you know my number.
Bill Rotella
Any dive that involves something new enough that you're not 100% comfortable with should be considered advanced. Normal dives can become advanced for very simple reasons - a normal dive for you when you have a fully qualified PADI openwater diver as your buddy could immediately become advanced as they come to you out of air once you hit 20m and they've used their full supply. Especially when they're trying to breathe off the reg that you've hung around your neck...
Of course, if you want to do something that *everyone* would consider advanced, you've got to start modifying your gear to push the limits which serious deep or penetration divers would think about backing out. But then half the people you mention the dive to think you're a tosser for showing off like that and the other half just think you're stupid for pushing the limits of your body and equipment that way.
150m on air, anyone?
Hahahaha....Thats indeed an advanced Cave dive!!!! :oops:Quote:
Originally Posted by Angie Reim
Ladies and Gentlemen of the cave diving forum,
Your input has been stimulating! It was thought provoking and humerous!
It is greatly appreciated!
These ideas are ones that should be considered when rules are made to
limit access to certain cave systems. I think it may be time to review and modify certain protocols.
Thank you.
Tomorrow I'm going to go dive an ocean "cavern" that is 138'. The current is usually "kickin'" but between the cavern and the Goliath grouper, it should be interesting.
Craig and Bill, I'll be at the CFC meeting Sunday.
Best wishes and safe caving to all, and thank you once again!!!
Edit: I did not completely read your post, sorry...Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainSpeleo
I have done that dive, thought it was awesome and enjoyed the heck out of it, never thought I'd take any tourist back there though...
BTW, what's the most recent info on diving Madison? I am thinking about waiting for the swimmers to get cold before I go back, sort of like Telford (is that one an advanced dive since there are absolutely no facilities?)...
Dive safe,
Celia
one where i have people carry my gear for me. :D
That would only be considered "advanced" if they were transporting your gear to a white van. :wink:Quote:
Originally Posted by Caver95