Printable View
I recently completed my Full Cave course and would like to support cave diving in some way. I know about the old agencies- CDS and NACD- but from a lot of what I've read, they seem more like a social club for local cave divers. What about the NASE? Any opinions?
Thanks
congrats on completing your Full Cave! Check out the NFSA (North Florida Springs Alliance - www.northfloridaspringsalliance.org/). The NASE is not specific for caves or springs. Rather, this is a recreational education organization with a cave course.
I belong to the NSS-CDS, NACD, and NFSA. I think that all of these are worth the membership dues. NACD and NSS-CDS both put out magazines, and NFSA puts out a newletter. NFSA has done some nice work at Peacock with the interpretative trail, and at Jug Hole with the cart.
NFSA has also installed tank benches at several parks. I love em!
www.northfloridaspringsalliance.orgQuote:
Originally Posted by hunabku
I would keep in mind that the CDS maintains multiple dive sites, including one owned by then (Cow) and one owned by their parent agency (Alachua). Both the CDS and NACD donate gold line to various caves, which certainly isn't cheap (check the price at REI or something), as well as entrance warning signs and such. They also produce high quality quarterly publications. GUE has done quite a bit to raise the bar on training standards and is currently the only one who enforces them IMO, as well as sponsor several exploration projects which project divers in a positive light world wide. Quest magazine comes in PDF with GUE membership and is IMO, the most informative of the agency publications in part because it's not 100% cave diving so it has a wider member base to write for it. NFSA has donated a cart to jug, worked on the interpretive trail at WSPSSP, built tank racks at LR, and a various other things.Quote:
Originally Posted by hddiver
There are several choices, and I'm sure all of them appreciate your membership. A lot of the venting you hear is because they don't do as much as they used to, but not entirely true that they're only a social club.
thanks Jim, not sure how mine got messed up.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Wyatt
nicely done....and I agree that they're not *only* a social club. In fact, I'd take a different spin. One of the benefits of membership is that a number of social activities are conducted and in most of them, there are seminars, presentations, workshops, and all kinds of educational opportunities. These non-profit, volunteer organizations do a lot in a very difficult economic climate where we're under immense pressure to make as much money as possible.Quote:
Originally Posted by jj1987
So to the OP, it's great that you want to support the orgs...
The NFSA(North Florida Springs Aliance) is certainly the most active organization you could join. They are truly committed to continually improve park fascilities and spreading the word of conservation beyond the limits of cave divers within the parks they actively contribute. I believe it services Peacock, Madison, Lafayette, and Troy Spring State Parks. They also do many workshops a year, introducing advanced cave diving skills and dry caving techniques.
The NACD actively supports exploration and holds a few conservation type events every year. They have a publication and a large workshop every year. They hold a few cheap events every year for skills building, dry caving, and other things. They donate goldline and signs to popular caves.
The NSS CDS basically does what the NACD does, with a large workshop every year, a miniworkshop in the mid-west, and another miniworkshop at Hart Springs(sometimes). They also have a quarterly publication. They have a few less events every year compared to the NACD, but do own/manage a few of their own sites. They also donate goldline and signs for popular caves.
The NACD and NSS CDSs actions are so far inline with each other, I'm not sure why they are even seperate entities. Their goals and missions are basically the same and both would come out much stronger by joining, rather than keeping seperate. Leadership on the NACD seems to have been much more motivated in the past few years and the CDS has control over a few sites.
There are many less well known agencies also. Some include:
ACK - Agency for the Conservation of Karst. Below is their mascot.
http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:A...VQg1EkffX4&t=1
KARB - Karst Activity Research Bureau
DERPI - Den Exploration and Research Policy Institute
SARCASM - State Associations for the Research of Caves, And Subterranean Management
You may send your contributions directly to me, as I am chairman of all of these agencies, and thank you for your support.
It cant be a scam.... I read it on the internet, so it must be true.
I dont have much money, so I am sending them all my rocks so they can study them and use them to the best of their ability.
very nicely said MatQuote:
Originally Posted by SuPrBuGmAn
It's also worth noting that the CDS also supports exploration in the form of Sara Corrie Grants. This is done through the parent organization (NSS) and targeted towards caving projects dry and wet. The Sara Corrie fund rarely gets more grants then it has funds to give every year.Quote:
Originally Posted by SuPrBuGmAn
It's also worth noting that there are two cave divers on the SC Committee, so if you have a worthwhile project in FL (or other dive site) you won't be neglected because they don't understand what you're trying to do.
-Jon
Thats good to know, the CDS should inform its members of the existance and availability of the Sara Corrie Grants; this is the first I've heard of it.
It's published in the members manual, on the NSS website and I've seen it advertised in other periodicals and email lists as well. Perhaps you should spend time in places other than the CDF? :-D
Sara Corrie is for Domestic Exploration, there is also an International Exploration fund, the Speleo Foundation helps with various projects (outreach, cave purchase, etc.) and there are many other opportunities through NSS Grottos and Sections. I believe the CDS may not provide these opportunities because there is so much available through it's parent organization. Though I know the CDS has done a good amount of work to secure access to caves and do good things in FL.
PS, you guys missed a good convention and we had a great CDS session. Back to the party!
-Jon
As part of the NSS, the CDS should notify its members of these grants. Its pretty obvious that alot of CDS members do not actively participate or monitor NSS happenings. Shouldn't that be part of why you join a grotto?
I find more about whats happening within the CDS and whats available to CDS members through the CDF, so spending time here seems prudent :P
Yea, like he said, you have to read the members manual. Truthfully, I had forgotten about it, but will be applying again this year, to try to alleviate helium costs. Maybe we don't advertise it, so we don't have to compete with your projects for money! Ha.
No. You join a grotto for what it does...... It is not a service that holds your hand and spoon feeds you what you cant be bothered to do on your own.Quote:
Originally Posted by SuPrBuGmAn
Right... cause its my fault I didn't know the information was available for a grant I didn't know existed.Quote:
Originally Posted by JerseyJersey
Why get cave diving training? Having instructors spoonfeed you information. We're all such lazy, bothersom students.
NACD makes it clear, http://www.safecavediving.com/research-new.shtml
You don't know what you don't know, right?
I agree with your first comment though, I discontinued my membership due to what the grotto DIDN'T do. We can get into what I think the CDS is doing wrong again if you'd like - I purposely tried to avoid this so far. However, if I'm going to be wrongly called out for having to be spoonfed information that I didn't know existed, I'll refrain from pulling punches.
Thats apparently what you want right?
Iwould think this is information the NSS should put out to its membership and if they arent.... Why is the CDS at fault?
Just like regular visits to the CDS website is warranted, so are visits to the NSS website.
The NSS membership book is sent each year with info. But apparently not always read
Only so much can be done and the business of the CDS is a available, could more be done?
Probably, if more volunteers were involved.
I would think the CDS should want their membership(current and potential) to know about grants and other resources available to them that would help(and encourage) exploration. This is valuable to membership, why in the hell would you not make it obvious that its available?
The CDS's biggest draw is their owned properties. Aside from that, they do a very very poor job of communicating with their membership and showing the value of that membership. This is probably a huge reason why membership has dropped over the years... as well as comparitive inactivity compared to the NFSA and NACD.
The attitude that the CDS notifying membership of an available grant for exploration, is "spoon feeding" information that they can't be "bothered" with finding on their own(not knowing of its existance - and it not being on the CDS website) probably isn't the best way for the CDS to attract new members or keep existing ones.
You are right Mat. Thank you. Dont know why I didnt see it sooner. They are horrible and probably responsible for your tax return being late also. I do apologize.
I feel better now and can move on to other things.
LOL
Very clever!Quote:
Originally Posted by rchrds
-----------------
At convention on Friday, I talked with a BOG member. We talked about meshing the CDS and the NSS together more tightly. I told him how much I disagreed with a different BOG member who felt the price for an NSS membership is nothing compared to what cave divers spend on gear.
Sure. But, but why pay for something that doesn't do anything for you.
So anyway, this guy I talked with on Friday wanted to know, what can the NSS do for the cave divers and the CDS? We both agreed that we would like to work with people who are helpful and cooperative. He listed a name. I can think of three in particular--who seem to like to complain, but aren't willing to partner constructively. Are there any suggestions by any of you on how we can do more together? You can find the BOG yourself on the NSS website, or I can pass along the suggestions.
I am sorry but if you are directing that at Mat, you are wrong to do so. I do believe he volunteered and was the only person besides Xenia to sit at the entrance/registration/Mat-Hawking-Tickets table the whole time at the CDS conference. He always seems to offer his help, except when I asked him to take me to the GA caves he found.....jerk. Granted he is annoying and complains a lot, but really who isn't on CDF.Quote:
Originally Posted by Squirrel Girl
No, SG is talking about someone in the NSS, not the NSS-CDS.Quote:
Originally Posted by jcook
To me the organizations are similar to cliques in high school. Some people pledge allegiance to their clique, some people drift between groups to get laid and others just loner out.
I find that joining the nsscds, nacd, gue, nfsa and local grotto is beneficial. Some have cooler magazines but all groups have a diverse set of folks that love caves and when cavers of all types get together for social activities watch out cause they are way nuttier than you'd previously expect.
That's a little strong. I personally support both. They help ensure that the tourist caves are nice to dive :)Quote:
Originally Posted by hddiver
Seriously, they do more than have socials for themselves. And it's only a few bucks. In many ways we outsiders (who rarely get involved in these organizations because it's just difficult to do so) actually get to free ride from all their efforts. We should be grateful.
Good grief Matt. Is the weather getting you down?Quote:
Originally Posted by SuPrBuGmAn
So you are joining multiple groups? Wise ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by mdax
Sent from my HTC PH39100 using Tapatalk 2
Can you think of a better way to expand a wardrobe with really cool tee shirts? :)Quote:
Originally Posted by CaveMD
While you are weighing your options regarding cave diving organizations, I would highly recommend joining the NSS without hesitation. Although you may only be focusing on the wetter forms of the karst landform today, you might find the dryer side as interesting.Quote:
Originally Posted by hddiver