Anyone been to Little River, Peacock, Madison or Manatee since Debbie arrived?
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Anyone been to Little River, Peacock, Madison or Manatee since Debbie arrived?
Branford water station predicting about 25' depth by Sunday and going higher. Flood stage is 29'.
Has been hovering around 7-8 feet for most of this year.
What level did the caves flood at last time?
There is only one cave that a flood can be predicted by river level, and that is Peacock. The rest of the river caves flood at various river levels, depending on the condition of the aquifer at the time of the river rising. The aquifer is very low right now, so it will take less rise of the rivers than in the past.Quote:
Originally Posted by jj1987
Based on these predictions is there likely to be any divable springs along the Suwannee or Santa Fe this weekend?
I'm guessing no?
Attachment 6743
Attachment 6744
From Cave Excursions on FaceBook - "Per Bill - the lower caves next to the river (Madison Blue, Little River, Kitty, Trap and Telford) will more than likely go under due to the amount of rain received and river rise. Peacock may hold through this time period, but only time will tell."
Does Manatee reverse? Between the low pressure system, high tide, and rising river levels... will it stay flowing?
In my discussions with Paul Clark and Tim at Dive outpost, P1 will be blown when the Lauraville Bridge hits 25'. It is now over 19 and coming up. Branford is forecasted to go up over 24' now at 10". Not sure the correlation there. My experience leads me to believe the river springs will be blown and perhaps Peacock. Iwill call Ginnie to see if they are going to put up the curtain to protect the Eye. That and Manatee may, may be the only option. Check the the current charts. I am suppose to dive beginning the 10th. Not optimistic.
John
Just talked to Ginnie, they are planning on putting up the curtain and that shoud work unless the Santa Fa goes nuts. Call ahead.
Major flooding forecast for Santa Fe at Three Rivers Estate.
Looks like it is supposed to hit 31 feet sometime Sunday.
That's a foot over Major flood stage.
It's at 21 feet right now on the Luraville guage.
I'll bet it goes over 24 feet (from looking at the guages up river).
And it STILL keeps on raining.
Beano
I would put Cow on the list. Peacock has some tannic vents to the river,so it will influx river water even when the slough is dry,but it could be one of those things where P1 is gone,but OG is okay.Quote:
Originally Posted by Greenwood_60
Manatee and Ginnie are capable of reversing,especially with low ground water levels.
So I haven't been around long enough to know about these "curtains" at Ginnie. Do they have a system to keep river intrusion out of the spring? I'd assume that it's obviously not very water tight, so does it just slow down the amount of intrusion?
Ginnie 4/2005
What they do is stretch a canvas curtain across the spring run between the Eye and the Ear to help keep the tanic water from coming over the Eye. It does help and makes the eye diveable when you can't see the Ear. As the picture showns, that won't do much if the river comes up too high.Quote:
Originally Posted by rddvet
Ginnie staff told me they have had flooding in the past up to the roofs of the bath houses. Any bets?
With that pic from above, you could dive Ginnie from the guard shack.
If the river height predictions are correct, we'll flood the bathhouses at Ginnie. I have been filming in Lake City region all day and many roads are impassable. I10 is closed. Parts of 90 are closed. Parts of 441, 47 and anything along the old trace of the Ichetucknee River are now the new temporary raging Ichetucknee River. See the link for the photo of a spot where we filmed sections of Water's Journey. It is taking an enormous amount of storm water right now.
Attachment 6750
I have seen it over the bath houses and coming up the hill.Quote:
Originally Posted by gschaut
I will ask about the Curtain in the morning when I return a phone to them. ( I forgot to put it on charge when I left Sunday )Quote:
Originally Posted by Shocky
If it is put up, remember that 32% may become too hot a gas to dive the system. I have seen 20ft at the top of the eye more than once. The Ear is closed also when the curtain goes up. A permanent line is usually installed during times of flooding to prevent a spider web of lines.
Tom
Rose syphon? I heard it is impressive when its sucks. What I was told was you can hear it roaring before you get close enough to see it.Quote:
Originally Posted by JillHeinerth
Many of us think 32% is alway too hot in 100 ffwQuote:
Originally Posted by tomhauburn
Jim Wyatt
www.cavediveflorida.com
www.cavecountrydiving.com
352-363-0013
P1 right now.... Attachment 6751Attachment 6752
One thing to note is that the river level predictions are based on the rain that has fallen and not whats going to come down later today, tomorrow, or the next day. That is evidenced by the ever changing charts. Also, the predictions do not take into account any recent tree falls in the rivers and development (legal or illegal) of buildings or structures in the flood zone. Another interesting tidbit, is that unlike a Winter flood a Spring or Summer flood has a whole mess of thirsty trees and vegetation to suck up that water. The water levels may not make it to the predicted levels on account of that.
Disclaimer: I have no scientific proof of my "tree" theory. Just an old coot at the boatramps observation. This has been supported by other locals who have seen many more floods in North Central Florida than me. I have also been told that the Santa Fe used to flood every year. What happened to those days???
Looks pretty brown. How was it in the cave?Quote:
Originally Posted by Hooligan
I would much rather use lean mix and do a little extra deco than run the risk of toxing. Especially in a high flow cave where I know I am gonna be working harder than usual.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Wyatt
Anyway, I say bring it on. If all the caves blow and we can't dive for a week or two oh well. All this rain is just what we need. Hopefully once the rivers drop a little and the ground has had a chance to soak up some of this water, we will keep getting rain all summer.
Hopefully this is the start of the end of this stupid drought and our aquifers won't be in such of a dire state. Granted, if nothing is done we will be right back here before long, but at least we will have more time to change hearts and minds.
Here is a shot from Little River at noon on Wednesday. The gate is locked but whitish water is still flowing from the spring to the Suwannee. At least it has not reversed!
The roads in the region are really bad. Most north/south roads have storm water running across them and are closed. Many communities are like islands until everything runs off. We almost got stuck in O'Brien trying to get back from filming today. We ran the police barricade as they were formally closing our route home. They just looked at us and shook their heads.
[ATTACH=CONFIG]6754
Scofflaw.Quote:
Originally Posted by JillHeinerth
Well ####. Manatee is closed to diving too. Anyone have a guess as to how long this will last? When the first sites will start to open? Or any guesses about individual sites?
It's going to rain for 40 days and 40 nights.Quote:
Originally Posted by Greenwood_60
Did you talk to the rangers at Manatee? Did they say that the water conditions were cloudy or could this closure be to downed trees that need to be cleaned up? This closure surprises me as the Suwannee hasn't really gone up much (yet) at Manatee.Quote:
Originally Posted by Greenwood_60
The rangers told Marissa that only open water divers are allowed into Catfish Hotel. She called around 3 pm today.Quote:
Originally Posted by mer
Jim Wyatt
www.cavediveflorida.com
www.cavecountrydiving.com
352-363-0013
Thats a strange restriction?
TRANSCRIPT (Florida State Police)Quote:
Originally Posted by JillHeinerth
"Four-Romeo-Two-One, This is Dispatch. Status report."
"Dispatch, 4-R-2-1. Well, Jill Heinerth made it thru."
"Copy 4-R-2-1. Maintain road closure for all traffic who do not have their Abe Davis yet."
Wow. I'm still using 34% at Jackson Blue. Maybe it's time to re-think it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Wyatt
At least I'm scootering.
http://www.cavecountrydiving.com/div...ank-ean32.htmlQuote:
Originally Posted by Slüdge
Read this article.
Jim Wyatt
www.cavediveflorida.com
www.cavecountrydiving.com
352-363-0013
Amen!Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Wyatt
...nice. IMO, a prudent, thankless effort to protect the unknowing/complacent.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Wyatt
Can't honestly say I've noticed as I tend to blend and top-off at home, which creates inherent variables to my mix from day to day, but I tend to average 29%-31% on any given analysis.
+1...Quote:
Originally Posted by SuPrBuGmAn
Ginnie springs is only allowing full cave divers right now.
I asked about cave instruction for those of you heading in to teach classes and they said BOTH the instructor and student must be full cave already in order to dive.
I'm thinking of heading down there to get a quick video and see conditions for myself...
On the New Jersey Shore boats, I always used EAN28... We called it "Jersey Mix" :-DQuote:
Originally Posted by Jim Wyatt
There are quite a few popular sites in the 120-140fsw range. Some are at 170fsw and require at least normoxic trimix.
Haven't done those, yet. :-D
Yes, I'm very familiar with those numbers. I usually mix 31% for swim dives.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Wyatt
How do you feel about scootering 96ffw?
that's a PPO2 of 1.25 ata....that's my plan.Quote:
Originally Posted by Slüdge
Jim Wyatt
www.cavediveflorida.com
www.cavecountrydiving.com
352-363-0013
A while back I posted a thread on here, Why not 30% vs. 32%. I guess most shops bank 32% because its popular [nitrox1] and 36% being [nitrox 2] but not popular in cave country. I applaud the banking of 30 for safety.
Water is to the top two steps at Ginnie. Curtain is holding back the river madness however it probably won't last till tomorrow if river levels continue to rise much. Vis was great in Devils though, 100+ from eye to hill 400.
Duncan said they'd probably close it to diving tomorrow.
Water only two steps down now
http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g2...01/photo26.jpg
Curtain holding river of muck back
http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g2...01/photo25.jpg
Water's almost above the close stairs
http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g2...01/photo24.jpg
This is exactly what the springs needed. Well maybe not Ginnie but parts of the river were drying up and hopefully this will help the aquafer.
Expecting six more feet of water at Ginnie by Saturday morning, according to the Water Management District gauges. The good news is that it will start dropping right away. We really need this in the long run!
yeah, you know it's getting too hot to dive dry down there anyway ;) Should be nice come Oct !
Ginnie is closed to diving. See their facebook: https://www.facebook.com/?ref=tn_tnm...s/369665536788
Manatee is currently open to cave diving, but they expect they will close as the river rises. Their criteria for closing is dark water in the basin.
anyone know what's going on up in Marianna?
As far as diving at ppo of 1.2 I think GUE changed there standards a few years back and I know NAUI was thinking of doing the same. All my trimix dives on the ship wrecks of the great lakes are done at 1.2
Not I, but I forecast that the crowd density will be well above normal! :)Quote:
Originally Posted by whodunit68
Are there any suspected tox incidents that occurred below 1.4 where helium was not involved?Quote:
Originally Posted by edl
Mariana is fine, pretty much completely un-affected. I haven't been myself, but have talked to them today.
On the O2 thing, you guy's don't want to dive to 100 FFW on 32%, yet still want to deco out on 100%?
BTW, I don't think we may actually be at 100FFW when our depth gauges say we are, unless your gauge is calibrated for fresh water, it's a pressure thing, and FSW and FFW are irrelevant, it's pressure that matters.
yeah, maybe I just give up and go home.....Quote:
Originally Posted by Jax
From Ginnie's FB Page:
Ginnie Springs Condition Update
As of today Thursday June 28, 2012 through Tuesday July 3, 2012 all of the springs as well as the river is closed. There will be no diving, swimming, tubing, canoeing, kayaking, or boating. Camping is still available in the high ground area of the Outback and water and electric. There is no camping along the river or low lying areas. If there are any questions feel free to email us at info@ginniespringsoutdoors.com or call us at (386)454-7188. I am sorry about any inconveniences. We will keep our conditions posted on Facebook and our webpage as they change.
Thank you,
Ginnie Springs Management
It's not a cave... but anyone hear any word on Rainbow River? I am trying to dive this weekend... something... anything... :(
Do not remember the gentelmans name but one of the reasons naui was looking at ppo numbers was because of a diver toxing in a cave while diving on nitrox with a ppo of 1.3.
Rainbow River is gonna be fine. I like to put in at Blue Run and kayak upstream. Ive never bothered with scuba there though nice for snorkeling.
Quote:
Originally Posted by a64pilot
Yes, I do deco at PPO2 of 1.6 ATA, however, that is not the working portion of the dive, during deco I am completely sedentary. It is not as much the high PPO2 that concerns me, it is the physical exertion combined with the high PPO2 that is my primary concern
FYI: Santa Fe river at the US 27 Bridge is like about 3-5 feet under the bridge deck. The flow is like ripping thru there.
And it looks like the parking lot right by the bridge might go under.
Lots of people stopping and looking at the flow in the river .
So I bet Gator Hole ... well (SMILE)
Beano
Kind of like me holding on to a scooter...Quote:
Originally Posted by floridakid
.....Quote:
Originally Posted by Greenwood_60
Last march when it flooded, how long before the water came back to "normal" in the rivers?
I was planning going to cave country at the end of July. Should I be worried? Since it is a 24h drive down there, I want to be sure.
I would guess even if they're back and not blown that viz won't be the greatest. Maybe take the trip to the Mill Pond instead?Quote:
Originally Posted by Xaryo
Until your scooter craps out and you have to swim home :-DQuote:
Originally Posted by Slüdge
Last March may not be a great indicator in this case. The current flooding was mostly in Fl, and hopefully will serve to refresh the aquifer. It is possible that conditions will clear faster, but we don't have many recent incidents of this type to draw a reliable conclusion. My guess it will clear faster than when it rains hard over south Georgia, and floods the caves with a lot of tannic swamp water. However, the end of July may bee too soon, so Marianna is probably a better bet.Quote:
Originally Posted by Xaryo
With the extremely low aquifer and the amount of water coming down the river, I expect every spring on the Suwannee and Santa Fe to be blown for some weeks. Manatee may escape, but given the recent reports of low flow there, I doubt it.
I just visited the river here a few minutes ago, and while it still has a few feet to go before it tops the banks, there is a huge amount of muddy water and debris headed south right now.
The bad news is - it's really dry and this water is going to infiltrate for miles and muddy our springs and wells for some time to come. The good news is- it's really dry and once this water gets below the Branford/Santa Fe bottlenecks, there's a whole lotta space both above and below ground for it to flow into.
My prediction/hope is that as far as my neck of the woods is concerned, it's not going to be that much of an event.
Good point.Quote:
Originally Posted by floridakid
Actually, I keep 32% in my backgas that I don't touch, and breathe 34% from stages. I need to keep in mind that if (when) the scooter craps out and I swim out, to make sure I do it on backgas. Thanks.
Ginnie conditions as of noon on Saturday... really fast and be careful when you kayak. You might get hung up on a BBQ.
WoW! That is a whole lot of water. We definitely won't be diving Ginnie for quite a while from the looks of that.
We ain't done yet....The river is still rising
Man I really hope most of this water makes its way into the aquifer.
I agree!Quote:
Originally Posted by TracyN
What are the chances of anything in cave country proper being divable this weekend?
Not to be a smart butt or anything . . .
What is "cave country proper"? Newbie minds want to know . . . . .
Just me being a smart-ass. I know the caves in the panhandle are clear. I'm interested in anything within an hour of Mayo.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jax
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jax
http://www.floridacaving.com/wp-cont.../karst_map.gif
Nice, but you left out major karst areas in the rest of the US, Europe, Asia, Australia, South America, Africa, ... etc.Quote:
Originally Posted by hunabku
Quote:
Originally Posted by FW
I hear you Forrest. I used to think of TAG as "cave country" when I lived in Chattanooga. Now that I'm back in Jacksonville "cave country" is in north central Florida.
I guess "cave country is really wherever you make it :smt001
It's sort of like asking "where is Margaritaville?"
It's anywhere you want it to be buddy...
No, it's here: https://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&q=isla+de+margaritaQuote:
Originally Posted by gasdiver
Yes and most all of them involve multiple dives over multiple days (read live aboard & long vacation). I don't have the data but believe Peter does.Quote:
Originally Posted by Greenwood_60
Because one is the working part of the dive likely against current in Devils or LR. The other is at rest during decompression.Quote:
Originally Posted by a64pilot