Different rules at Manatee??

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07-24-2005 07:47 PM
phishfood

Different rules at Manatee??

:?: A couple of friends and I dove Manatee Springs today. Not that it mattered to me on this particular trip, since I am an idiot and forgot my Cavern card at home, so had to register as OW.

BUTTTT, the ranger at the front gate was adamant that ONLY Intro divers and above could carry lights. No lights for Cavern certed divers. So if she is correct, your Cavern card is no better than an OW card there.

My question is, is this ranger misinformed, or is this truly a rule there that I have unknowingly broke in the past?
07-24-2005 08:26 PM
Dwain

In a case like this, or anything that doesn’t seem right it never hurts to speak to the head ranger. Some of the rangers are volunteers that may not be up on all of the rules and regulations.

I have in the past run into a situation that the volunteer rangers associated Intro with cave... therefore a diver could only use a light if cave diving. There interpretation was that cavern was not cave diving so a light could not be used.

Don’t ever question them. Ask to speak to the head ranger on duty if you aver have any questions.

Unless there has been a change recently you are certified to use a light in the cavern zone as long as you have the card on you and it is presented at the ranger station.
07-24-2005 08:34 PM
D1V3R

Re: Different rules at Manatee??

Quote:

Originally Posted by phishfood

ONLY Intro divers and above could carry lights. No lights for Cavern certed divers. So if she is correct, your Cavern card is no better than an OW card there.

Isn't it like that at Ginnie now?

EDIT: Nevermind lol
07-24-2005 08:47 PM
phishfood

That is kinda what I thought was going on myself.

The lady was very kind, and I have a personal policy against arguing with police, park rangers, & judges, so I left it alone. :-D

Seriously, arguing with park staff is not likely to do our cause much good.

There are probably members here who have the ability to deal with this much more effectively than I could at that moment, therefore this thread. But this does need to be dealt with, otherwise one of these days a cavern diver with a short fuse will vocally take issue with this, and create hard feelings for cave divers that need not be.
07-24-2005 10:35 PM
HomoErectus

mh

First we had government employees, now we have government volunteers. As long as you do anything stupid underwater, I am sure you get get in a light underwater.
07-25-2005 05:42 AM
Cindy

There was supposed to have been a meeting earlier this month with Lamar Hires, John Jones and others that sat down with the state DEP people and worked on trying to get standardized access rules for all the state parks. I wanted to go but found out it was a closed meeting. I haven't heard what happened. Has anyone? Cindy Butler
07-25-2005 09:26 AM
curtschu

Did you say a closed meeting?????

Um Sunshine law!!! How can there be a closed meeting between citizens and a Government employee on a topic of public use policy? Maybe that only applies to Elected Officials?
My legal knowledge only exdends to Criminal law so I'm just speculating on this. Anyone know more?

Curt
07-25-2005 11:59 AM
Moonfuzzy

Re: Did you say a closed meeting?????

Quote:

Originally Posted by curtschu

Um Sunshine law!!! How can there be a closed meeting between citizens and a Government employee on a topic of public use policy? Maybe that only applies to Elected Officials?
My legal knowledge only exdends to Criminal law so I'm just speculating on this. Anyone know more?

Curt

Here is a link to the Attorney General's website with a Q&A about the sunshine law. I am not sure if it applies here because it seems to mention that the people involved in the meeting be part of a "board or commission" for a public body..

http://myfloridalegal.com/pages.nsf/4492d797dc0bd92f85256cb80055fb97/df6796c2c498743985256cc7000ad5cb!OpenDocument

Q. What is the Sunshine Law?
A. Florida's Government-in-the-Sunshine law provides a right of access to governmental proceedings at both the state and local levels. It applies to any gathering of two or more members of the same board to discuss some matter which will foreseeably come before that board for action. There is also a constitutionally guaranteed right of access. Virtually all state and local collegial public bodies are covered by the open meetings requirements with the exception of the judiciary and the state Legislature which has its own constitutional provision relating to access.

Q. What are the requirements of the Sunshine law?
A. The Sunshine law requires that 1) meetings of boards or commissions must be open to the public; 2) reasonable notice of such meetings must be given, and 3) minutes of the meeting must be taken.

Q. What agencies are covered under the Sunshine Law?
A. The Government-in-the-Sunshine Law applies to "any board or commission of any state agency or authority or of any agency or authority of any county, municipal corporation or political subdivision." Thus, it applies to public collegial bodies within the state at both the local as well as state level. It applies equally to elected or appointed boards or commissions. [/b]
07-25-2005 12:25 PM
curtschu

Depends

I guess it depends on who the meeting was with. If it was a single manager with broad powers to make policy decisions I would agree.
If it was a group of folks that are whole or part of a policy making group, commision or board then Sunshine law would apply. I only bring this up since we all have an interest we need to make sure that anyone speaking on our behalf is following the wishes of the whole and (I say this without making any knid of accusation because I don't know what the agenda was or if minutes were taken) not their own special interest.

Curt
07-25-2005 03:59 PM
bmwcaves

Re: Different rules at Manatee??

Quote:

Originally Posted by phishfood

My question is, is this ranger misinformed, or is this truly a rule there that I have unknowingly broke in the past?

Last time I dived there was two weekends ago with a friend of mine who did not have his cave card with him either, all he had was cavern and we didn't have any problems....go figure.

Brian
07-25-2005 08:06 PM
phishfood

Re: Different rules at Manatee??

Quote:

Originally Posted by bmwcaves

Last time I dived there was two weekends ago with a friend of mine who did not have his cave card with him either, all he had was cavern and we didn't have any problems....go figure.

Brian

Yep, and I have been there with only my cavern card in the past, and didn't have this issue brought up. This caught me by surprise, you might say.

Everyone, thanks for all of the replies. So far, no one has a definitive, "official" explanation. I am hoping that someone with a good relationship with Manatee staff can clear this up.

Many thanks,
many cheers,
many beers,
& many safe dives, :D

David