...thinking about going there this weekend with a couple folks.
Cave Atlas' last report is a bit dated, but I want to change that.
Printable View
...thinking about going there this weekend with a couple folks.
Cave Atlas' last report is a bit dated, but I want to change that.
May want to call first. When the park starts getting busy,in the past they close access to Little Hart,and only have Black Lagoon as a guided access.Quote:
Originally Posted by diveconjeff
Thanks for the heads up Kelly. The call is already in the plans.
Unless I am mistaken, and it would not be the first time, once you have had a guided entry through the black lagoon, the guide is no longer a requirement?
I have never heard that??Quote:
Originally Posted by diveconjeff
Like I said, I have been mistaken before... Guess I'll check on that too
Jeff
Diveconjeff@yahoo.com
Upon further review....
I will not be looking to enter Black Lagoon without a guide. Please pardon my brain cramp. Thanks FW
And we will check with the park before going there. Thanks Kelly
Jeff
Diveconjeff@yahoo.com
Little Hart is open year round now.
Jeff,Quote:
Originally Posted by diveconjeff
Those without 100 full cave dives can enter little hart WITH a guide once, and then if the guide signs off on them no longer need a guide. I think that's where the confusion lies.
You are correct. I confused the two. Thank you for pointing that outQuote:
Originally Posted by jj1987
Jeff, Please post a conditions report, once you have been there.
Is this information (from 2004) still the valid site plan and rules? www.hartspringsguide.com/forms.php
I get a "Not Found" message on the link, but if it is indeed from 2004, it is out of date. The most recent changes are about a year old.Quote:
Originally Posted by sskasser
Edit: Fixed link in above post.
Who can update or pull down that info so it doesn't cause any confusion?
I am pretty sure Tom McMillan is the current webmaster.Quote:
Originally Posted by sskasser
We dove Hart today, swam from little hart to around 300' shy of the black lagoon. Vis was about 60' and it was just awesome in there, everything coated with a light topping of silt, like dark frosting.
You need a guide for black lagoon, an abe davis or equivalent experience to start from little hart.
I just emailed Mitchell Gentry, the Hart Springs manager about the confusion. In the meantime, I suggest you call the park at 352-463-3444 and ask to be sure.
As I understand it, Black lagoon is guided only. You must have an Abe Davis or equivalent to dive Little Hart unguided, but after you have dove it once with one of the guides, he has the option to sign off on you as an unguided diver.
Leslie, if Mitchell will send me the current rules, I will post them here.Quote:
Originally Posted by Leslie Sapp
Thanks for the viz report. How was the flow?Quote:
Originally Posted by mdax
Thanks Leslie.Quote:
Originally Posted by Leslie Sapp
Yep, that's what I was thinking.
Still not quite clear on which entrance you are referring to with the "it" ...."but after you have dove "it" once with one of the guides,"
I have been in and out through BL and am pretty certain I was signed off, I'll check again. (Probably signed off as a mis-guided diver, instead of an unguided diver though!)
We have called and confirmed with the park we are good to go, and are eagerly looking forward to a return through LH and will look to engage a guide for the next trip.
Trip report will be posted...
First 300' was moderate flow, not really very bad.
Beyond that it was great, hardly noticeable.
http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g2...artSurface.jpg
The practice of not allowing guides to charge for their time seems absurd to me. I'm not clear on why guides should have to take a day out of their lives for free as I find people rarely value things that are given to them.
It was obvious from the Hart workshop and guide attendance that this policy doesn't really work...but then again I don't understand the point of socialism and why anyone with smarts or skill would embrace it...however that's a whole different conversation.
Because we don't want Florida to end up like Mexico!Quote:
Originally Posted by mdax
...because they like diving?Quote:
Originally Posted by mdax
That is why I guide there :-)Quote:
Originally Posted by SuPrBuGmAn
unlike Mexico where you can just hire a guide and pay market rates we have a system where some guides do the minimum number of dives, mostly with their friends so they can retain access privileges. How many guides were willing to come to the Hart workshop and guide folks? You were there Forrest, was anyone else from the list?
Asking folks to guide because they love diving, while eating the cost of the dive, taking away from whatever they wanted to do with their day seems unreasonable to me. I understand they knew the "rules" going into the agreement; I just disagree with the status quo and believe there would be plenty more available guides if we let the market dictate rates and guides were able to offset the cost of gas and nitrox...not to mention the stress involved in taking unknown divers into these systems "for fun".
Has the nsscds ever tried to email free guides asking for a dive in their systems while pretending to be a visiting diver to gauge their willingness?
Is there a shortage of guides? If there is, maybe the system needs tweaking. If not, the system works.
There was a reason for that, nobody told the guides what was going on. They didn't want to show up, and have nothing to do. Yes, there other guided dives that day, but they had made arrangements before hand, so weren't on the list at registration. However, it seems they rest would want to support the park, whether they were guiding, or not :roll:Quote:
Originally Posted by mdax
Actually the list is quite long, I believe the number that showed for the nsscds event at Hart springs was one; the event was billed as having guides available for the system and only Forrest showed. Forrest seems to be an anomaly, he's pleasant, approachable and willing to dive with just about anyone...which I think proves he's a little nutty :).
Tell you'all what, I'll email requesting a guide for Alachua/Mill Creek once I can find the list...which doesn't seem to be on the nss cds site. Can anyone link or send the list of Alachua/Mill Creek guides?
There were three guides there, but two had already arranged guided dives.Quote:
Originally Posted by mdax
You are right, there isn't a Alachua guide list on the NSS-CDS website, an oversight, since it is mentioned in the management plan. I will get one up ASAP.
No, he'll dive with ANYone. As my logbook will attest.Quote:
Originally Posted by mdax
Almost, but not quite. There is one guy I won't dive with anymore :roll:Quote:
Originally Posted by Slüdge
No, it isn't Russell :-D
You clearly have tons of experience, and in my opinion a huge helping of guts. I'm spoiled by marrying my dive buddy of 13 years I suppose as I'd never venture into caves with divers of unknown skill and temperament...not to mention how unstable and ego chasing many cave divers seem to be...
I can not answer to the availability of guides at the last Hart workshop other than I was asked to help guide a day or two before the event. I happened to be out of town that weekend or I would have helped out. With regards to NSS-CDS sites that are guided, I am responsible for the guide programs at both places (Mill Creek and School Sink) If there is a question of availability of a guide, let me know. As for them doing it for free, this is both a liability issue for the CDS with regards to Florida law and a matter of volunteerism on the part of the guides. I myself do not guide very often as I travel for work. There are several guides that are guiding at Mill Creek, Indian and other places on a weekly basis and they do not seem to need any cash for their time.
Frank Ohidy, Program Director, NSS-CDS.