Maybe this should be in the sidemount forum, maybe not. Have any of you ever been stuck? For how long? How did you get out? The JB thread got me to thinking about this, as well as diving in Jug hole.
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Maybe this should be in the sidemount forum, maybe not. Have any of you ever been stuck? For how long? How did you get out? The JB thread got me to thinking about this, as well as diving in Jug hole.
I'm not sure I'd call it "stuck" but I've wedged myself in and then hung up a tank cam band. It took a little wiggling to get free and was not a big deal, but it drove a couple changes in configuration:
1. I changed where the buckle on a cam band lives - if I use them at all, as I tend to gravitate more toward hose clamps now.
2. I lengthened the tails on my tanks slightly. The resulting profiel is not as flat as the tanks hang a little lower, but the whole rig is a lot more flexible, can be adapted to fit the cave better and allows a little more room and movement to fix any problems.
In general I tend to focus on avoidance of getting stuck.
Several times.
I’ve learned a few things….
1. Don’t try to survey silty cave that’s mostly sidemount, in backmount. I call this lesson “line traps turn into head scrapes when the silt hits the fan.”
2. If you move rocks to fit through a hole, they might move themselves to keep you there. I call this lesson “is it really worth it? And if so, where is your shovel?” hint: sidemount/nomount needs to be flexible so you can move your kit out of the way to move said rocks.
3. Sometimes you have to take off everything to fit. Sometimes when you do that, you drop stuff. Backup lights are your friend and don’t ever end up with both tanks unclipped from something. I call this lesson “it’s not an entrance because nobody fits, silly”
4. Sometimes you have to reconfigure your gear to fit. Sometimes even with that you have to exhale to fit. Sometimes even with that, you end up in funky positions to fit. I call this lesson “you can always try again later” and alternatively “don’t you dare think about what would happen if a dump truck drove on top of this section of cave right now”
5. Sometimes you end up sideways and your mask floods and your reg breathes wet. I call this lesson “cough cough cough this next room better be worth it!”
You have to know when to call it quits. You have to know where every piece of gear is, and be able to visualize it in your mind. But most of all you have to remember that there is nothing worth dying for, there are plenty of holes you can’t fit through, and nobody cares if you do or don’t fit through. Always keep your pride in check, and always always always plan how you can get out before you go in. Nothing has ever scared me as badly in diving as when I’ve realized the silt is hitting the fan, and I don’t know exactly how to get myself out. A line to the surface isn’t enough when you can’t see behind you, or in front of you, and you are reduced to wriggling.
i've been stuck a few times. it happens.
JahJah, is your computer retarded or is it mine?
Too much fiber, it has a case of the "squo;t"'s.Quote:
Originally Posted by Slüdge
a few times
i can tell you that stuck at 210' on air in zero vis sucks
I plugged a spring up once real good... eventually the pressure increased enough to shoot the cork(me) out to the surface.
OK, well maybe not that dramatic.
The spring restriction had filled in considerably since my previous dives at the location. Normally, I'd have to take a tank off to enter. On this particular day, both tanks had to come off and I really oughto have shed the nomad as well, as I still had to wedge, dig, fight, scrape my way in... without tanks. The rest of the dive was a fun balancing act of keeping my regulators from freeflowing and orally inflating/dumping my wing since it would auto-inflate with power. Its amazing how nasty sand can be to our gear. On the way out, after all the digging, scraping, and my buddy also making passage through twice, the entrance was considerably larger(and by that, I still mean small). Anyway, I had the bright idea that maybe I didn't need to take my tanks off on the way out, wrong. Got wedged real good, after 5 minutes of being pinned(and laughing at myself for drowning in 20' of water - which was going to take forever since I had plenty of gas left) I was finally able to get a hand back to unclip one tank and drag it up in front of me... freeing me for an ascent. I came out of this knowing that I need to just pull the tanks, instead of trying to grind through...
I've never been really stuck on a cave dive, but I have wedged for a few moments a couple of times. Letting all the air out of my Nomad and/or repositioning my body and/or a tank has solved the problem. I dive sidemount, but am not what I'd think of as a "real" sidemount diver.
I got stuck in a dry cave, years ago when my chest rather than my belly was my limiting diameter. In a tight squeeze tube, on my back, arms over my head, head turned to the side, chest compressed to the point of not being able to take a full breath. Fortunately I had someone ahead of me and someone behind me, and the tight spot is only a few feet long. The guy ahead of me put his boot where I could reach it, and the guy behind me put his hands where I could push against them with my feet. I exhaled maximally, pushed, pulled, and wriggled, then took as much of a breath as I could. This got me about an inch of progress. So I repeated it until I was through. It took about 15 minutes, but it didn't seem longer than a couple of days. On the way out, I took off my wool shirt and sweater, leaving on just my long underwear top & bottom, wool pants, and coveralls, (Vermont caves are cold!) and slid right through. My buddy who was ahead of me in the cave remarked that he was starting to wonder how long it would take him to cut my body out of the way with his Swiss Army knife. :)
Yes, and I now i have a new rule. I remove only one tank going in so I have the option of removing two tanks going out. This means that I will never reach the ranks of the truly hardcore, but I am way more comfortable and can avoid anxiety. The other thing I highly recommend is immediately going back through a new tricky restriction, again to avoid anxiety, which has the nasty habit of inflating you like a puffer fish.
Something else I recently became aware of through dry caving is avoiding going downhill into a restriction headfirst. Always feet first. It makes a huge difference.
Well stated.Quote:
Originally Posted by alanf
Some minor stuff solo, just enough to get the adrenaline rush.
Team diving I alway's stick with the "fat guy first in-last out" rule. My instructor told me he started adhering to that rule when he realized he wouldn't have enough gas to carve the guy stuck in the exit out of his way with a Z-knife.
:rollguy I too live by that rule.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay
I have gotten stuck a few times, but generally I made the situation worse than it needed to be. Saw the same thing happen to a few other guys, again they made the situation worse than it needed to be. It wasn't the restriction that got them, it was not paying attention to their gear.
As the "fat guy" on the team when I dive, I don't want to be carved out with a Z knife either. Or any other utensil as a matter of fact.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay
I was in part of the deep section once at Little River and a sidemount diver ahead of me went out on the line, but I saw him wiggling a bit to get through. As I was backmount, this concerned me a bit but after all we had just come through the same area a short time ago.
When I tried going through, and with now limited vis, I could not fit, and the vis quickly dropped to zero but my hand was on the line. I tried to find the extra space needed for me but did not want to let go of that line....
So, after a few minutes, I decided to take off my gear, which is something I often practice during deco.
I was then easily able to move ahead, and out of the silt just in time to see my buddy coming to check on me.
I got the gear back on and we headed out.
That's the other pulse generator part of the "stuck" or tight sidmounty spots in the cave equation.Quote:
Originally Posted by WEPIV
I recall one instance where I was digging our way past a sand slide and when I checked, I could no longer find the line in the totally zero viz - but I was still in contact with Marci and she confirmed she still had trhe line. Assigning roles and responsibilites is important, as is having a great buddy who understands roles and responsibilties and can communicate effectively.
I don't know why it should be on the sidemount forum. The worst I have been stuck was in backmount. The only time I though I wasn't going to get out, I was stuck with another diver blocking my way out. The only reason we all made it out, was another team came in behind us, and saw what had the guy stuck. It was his argon bottle. What he needed argon for in Cow, I'll never know :roll:Quote:
Originally Posted by bullfrog
I once got myself stuck exploring a virgin (dry) cave where i was trying to get out, the cave was a bell shape, with a small soliution opening at the top the made a quick "S" bend .. there i was, my legs dangling over an 8m drop, my chest wedged in a restriction and my arms pointing skyward, with my mates giggling at me from the surface... 45 mins I wriggled, wormed and hauled to get my A## out.. I remember thinking at the time, the cave side section looked like one of the signs with the person caught in the machinery http://www.mysafetysign.com/Safety-S...KU-S-2673.aspx ... we named that cave "the wedge"
.. nowadays, I can get myself out in around 2 mins... its all about positioning...
Maybe off topic but this reminds me of a well know incident in England years ago
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neil_Moss_%28caver%29
You people aren't making it easy for those of us who may have a non-cavediving girlfriend that reads this forum. GL has always been wonderful about my diving, even not griping about my solo scootering, but this thread is bothering her. Let me again state my philosophy: If I can't go through it with backmounted doubles, two stages, and a UV-26, I'm not interested.
January exiting the cave I hit the keyhole restriction on my right side. I wriggled and moved my tanks a bit with no luck. I was able to back up, turn on my left side and pushed right through.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
This incident that happened a couple of years ago in Utah really got to me.....
http://www.deseretnews.com/article/7...cave-dies.html
Safe diving,
Rich
I've been stuck a handful of times.
First couple of times stuck were in backmount. I had already played around with sidemount in OW before that and that 2ndI time convinced me to go sidemount for cave diving. That didn't really solve anything because I've been stuck a lot more times since I began diving sidemount. LOL! One thing I won't do is exhale to push through a restriction. I like breathing and that's difficult to do when your lungs are being compressed. It's usually a wedged cylinder or not finding the right way through a keyhole in zero visibility. A little patience has served me well every time.
Hahaha, my wife isn't allowed to even look at my screen when I am on the forum.Quote:
Originally Posted by Slüdge
How do you know she doesn't have her own login? Russell's GF has posted here!Quote:
Originally Posted by jcook
Quote:
Originally Posted by jcook
Yep. I look at my own screen. I had to join to know what's going on, defend my BF, or even me! :smt045 And I can deal with this thread knowing that Russell will not be posting an incident in it! :smt038Quote:
Originally Posted by RN
Let's hope not :smt102Quote:
Originally Posted by RN
My wife doesn't get on here, but we filmed jug and cow last trip and I have not showed the videos to her.Quote:
Originally Posted by Slüdge
I have been what I consider stuck once in backmount. Took me about 5 minutes to get free. Felt like 5 hours. lol. I have been stuck once in sidemount, but that was under a coral ledge in OW trying to get a picture of a lobster.
Please don't use "retarded" it's offensive.Quote:
Originally Posted by Slüdge
Taking a stand for the irrational-characters a computer(or smart phone?) are throwing out on the forum? Go you.Quote:
Originally Posted by darkdiver211
There are other definitions for the word retarded.Quote:
Originally Posted by darkdiver211
re·tard [ri-tahrd, for 1–3, 5; ree-tahrd for 4] Show IPA
verb (used with object)
1.
to make slow; delay the development or progress of (an action, process, etc.); hinder or impede.
verb (used without object)
2.
to be delayed.
noun
3.
a slowing down, diminution, or hindrance, as in a machine.
4.
Slang: Disparaging .
a.
a mentally retarded person.
b.
a person who is stupid, obtuse, or ineffective in some way: a hopeless social retard.
5.
Automotive, Machinery . an adjustment made in the setting of the distributor of an internal-combustion engine so that the spark for ignition in each cylinder is generated later in the cycle.
Compare advance.
Origin:
1480–90; < Latin retardāre to delay, protract, equivalent to re- re- + tardāre to loiter, be slow, derivative of tardus slow; see tardy
Related forms
re·tard·ing·ly, adverb
Synonyms
1. obstruct, check.
Antonyms
1. accelerate.
That word hasn't been use in the psychology or special education fields in over thirty years. It's purely a slang term now. As are moron, imbecile, and idiot, which were used eighty years ago to describe specific levels of IQ, but are now just slang words.
I'm sorry if I offended you, but I don't think JahJah's computer cared.
I got stuck in a panhandle cave a few years ago. The flow, on the way out, turned me as I approached the restriction. It forced me against it and it took a minute to get a bottle off to get through. RN, on the other hand got Trapped. He was behind me. He is well prepared for this kind of a situation. When he pulled out his large knife and started towards me, I unstuck myself and pushed through the restriction. Now that's motivation!
No it's not, and you've badly missed the point.Quote:
Originally Posted by darkdiver211
"Retarded" was originally intended to be PC correct language to replace diagnostic terms used such as "moron" (IQ of 51-70), "imbecile" (IQ 26-50) and "idiot" (IQ 0-20).
Those terms were of course considered an improvement over the earlier generic term of "feeble-minded" used to reference people with signifcantly lower than average intellectual ability. When it entered common useage it came to be considered a prejorative term, but of course when moron, imecile and idiot came into common usage, they were themselves considered to be very negative terms associated with the "feeble-minded".
Not surprisingly, "Mentally Retarded" followed the same path from poltically correct to prejorative term when it was itself associated with a later generation of individuals with IQs less than 70.
Consequently, we've moved on as we call those individuals "Intellectually Disabled" rather than Mentally Retarded or just plain retarded. Unfortunately, language use being what it is, and insensitive asshats being what they are, in another 20 years, we'll be cashiering "intellectually disabled" as people will be associating it with people with IQs of less than 70, thus making it a prejorative term. Of course, the asshats out there will probably also be calling them "Ids" as it's a lot easier to say than "intellectually disabled".
So... in the current PC idiom, the proper terminology for the sentence in question would be "JahJah, is your computer intellectually disabled, or is mine?". But that would be really RETARDED as we are not talking about people with IQs less than 70, we are talking about a computer issue using a term in common use in the English language.
---
The point being no one is offended when you say "that's really ______"
A) Moronic
B) Idiotic
C) Imbecillic
because everyone has come to accept the common usage of those terms and they no longer have their original clinical meaning. The same consideration now has to be given to "retarded" as it has 1) arrived in use as a common term and 2) is no longer a diagnostic term used for people with IQs less than 70 - which is why we've moved on to the new term "Intellectually Disabled".
So, from my psychologist/counselor perspective, I encourage you to feel free to use "retarded" and not be offended as it no longer refers to people with IQs less than 70. I for one am in no way offended by it - especially when it is used in the way Russell used it.
I am however ALWAYS greatly offended by people who make fun of, or make jokes about people with intellectual disabilities regardless of the terminology used, as it is the intent and usage not the terminology that matters.
----
Back on topic - don't get stuck in a cave, it's really retarded.
And it slows your exitQuote:
Originally Posted by DA Aquamaster
Lulz... PC nazi fail
Computer is fine but the software appears to be intellectually disabled. I printed out an IQ test and it left all the answers blank which technically means on the scale from feeble minded to Einstein, it's an idiot.
Sometimes it gets stuck and control alt delete has to be used.
Second belly laugh from CDF today! Thank you!Quote:
Originally Posted by JahJahwarrior
I have been stuck a number of times. It doesn't matter if I am diving a wreck or a cave, there always seems to be some kind of small openng that is calling my name and, being the good soldier, I simply must answer the call. Most of the time it is not a big deal, but on occassion I have gotten myself into trouble.
I have learned that using AL80's (flat bottoms) for sidemounted bailout means that the tanks will "ratchet" through an opening and I can not back out. I have to be able to remove a tank in that case.
I have learned that exhaling to squeeze through a restriction can become very disconcerting when you are ready to take your next breath if you are not through the restriction yet.
I have learned that my rebreather is my best friend when I am stuck.
You guys are right, I over thought the word "retarded" Lets get back on topic, getting stuck is GAY.
:gayflagQuote:
Originally Posted by darkdiver211
omg... Lol. :dQuote:
Originally Posted by darkdiver211
Oops! I didn't think you saw the knife! ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Spd 135
It wasn't the knife as much as the grin on your face when you thought you would finally get to use it. :-)Quote:
Originally Posted by RN