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Okay, this is something I have put off for a long time because of prices of regulators. Currently I'm using a 1975 Aqua-Lung Aquarius Regulator (dont worry I had it rebuilt), and I need to switch to something modern.
The best regulator I've used to date is a Poseidon Odin, very very nice but its out of my price range.
It has to be inexpensive and relativly small, thats why I've been looking at the Dacor Viper (anybody have on of these?).
Apeks DS4 with ATX100 second stage.
Contact Salvo Diving for good price and quick shipment. :D
Joe,Quote:
Originally Posted by Tegg
You beat me to the post... I just sent him a PM. :-D
I've worked on several Vipers (I'm a full-time technician) . I couldn't believe how bad these things breathe. The first stage is a thirty-year-old diaphragm design, and the second stage is in essence a clone of the Scubapro 108 (another thirty-year-old design)in a sideways package.
I also can't believe how people rave about anything Apeks makes. Another iteration of the USDivers Conshelf of the 1970s. My thinking is people are just taking people's word for it, and have never tried a high-performance regulator.
You can't beat the Atomic Aquatics Z-1 for performance-per-dollar. High-performance balanced piston first stage, with a balanced and adjustable, compact second stage. An upgrade of Scubapro's Mark 10 and G-250.
But then again, that's just my opinion, based on ten years of working on about a dozen brands of regulators.
Go ahead and flame away.
Russell
Do you want new or used?
I have owned Scubapro MK25/G25HP, Poseidon Cyklon and Odin, Mares MR12, Zeagle TX50 (no longer made) and a few others. My girlfriend has the Aquarius and we do not use it at this time. Plus, she has a few mk10’s (Scubapro) that we had seriously rebuilt.
There has been subtle changes in regulators but it depends on you and what you are looking for. Scubapro while being expensive has stood the test of time. Plus, I have enjoyed the Diverite regulator. I am a technician for Mares/ Dacor, they gear works but has its faults.
I would start with new verses used. If you want a warranty and the manufacture to supply parts for overhauls then yes new, however that is really the only benefit.
Presently, I dive D400 (Scubapro) and Poseidon Cyklons both handle the environment of overhead and are sweet breathing. Some people with disagree on the Cyklons but they seems to do better with depth and regular use. Finding parts for Poseidon has been challenging in the last two years and unless changes are made I might switch out the first stages and go to someone else. We will see what happens this spring when I have them overhauled this spring.
I would have a look around at all of you mates gear and see what they are diving and then start chasing the gear sale board here and at other locations. A lot of people are willing to sell gear to someone in need. Next I would consider getting one of the more expensive models used. Such as a Scubapro, Poseidon, or Apeks, or a balanced diaphragm or better. If you are buying the 1st and second stage you should get them for a reasonable price and then pick up an Octo down the road.
I have rebuilt numerous Vipers and had no serious problems. They had a problem with the one way valve in the second stage and replaced that with a darker blue version. Mares has had some consistent problem with the 1st stages and the poppets. They tend to get high pressure leaks if the poppets wear out early. This causes the pressure to creep in the 1st stage and then the down stream second stage starts to bubble. Also the HP seat in the second stage had an issue with sealing properly. They went from a white HP seat to a blue seat. This was done while also changing the density of the material. The original part that used to seat against it was metal and the newer parts are made from plastic. This was not seating itself properly against the new Hp seat causing a leak. So basically they can be leaky units.
I have been most impressed with Poseidon’s Cyklons, Old Zeagle TX50 (Apeks), Diverite and Scubapro D400, G250.
If you heart is really set on the Odin, put out a request and see what people respond with.
Regards, Andrew
Russell,Quote:
Originally Posted by Sludge
Thanks for talking about Atomics- I have no personal history with the unit but I have a serious interest. How does it handle nitrox with the materials that it is made from? How is the rebuilding this unit compared to others.
Do you see a benefit with enviromentally sealed 1st stages? I see alot of crap in unsealed 1st stages. I have thought about making a movement towards sealed 1st stage- I had one with Zeagle it was great.
Thanks, Andrew
added- web page http://www.atomicaquatics.com/
About 95% of the first stages I work on are balanced pistons, and none of them are sealed. I've never seen a problem. To me, the only reason to seal it would be diving under ice or diving in sewage. I'll never do either.Quote:
Originally Posted by crazyduck
I can't understand why everyone talks about diaphragm regs being "sealed," but on every one I've worked on, there's just as much unsealed section as on a piston.
Dive in nasty water, rinse your regulator. How tough is that? To seal an Atomic Aquatics regulator requires about $10 worth of Christolube. I'll pass. I'd rather just rinse my reg afterwards.
Russell
Or get yourself RG2500's. Don't listen to those guys (Tegg and Dwain). They don't even dive!
Who actually makes these regulators? I noticed my Oceanic tools fit Dive-Rite.Quote:
Originally Posted by carrive1
Russell
I've looked at the RG2500 regulator because its small and I've seen cavers using it, but its 400 bucks, rather have the poseidon. The Atomic Regulator is about 300 bucks, and yet again I'd rather spend an extra 60 to get a Poseidon.
Eh... I might end up sticking with my old Aqua-Lung if the only good regs are this expensive...
EDIT: anybody use an OMS reg?
Just my opinion but the only regs I use in the overhead are the ScubaPro MK20s with old-school G250s, the only thing I've ever breathed that was a tiny bit better was the old Scubapro Pilot and those are hard to find parts for.....of course having said that I'm seriously thinking about switching over to the new Dive Rites after breathing them, since they are very comparable and much easier to work on!!Quote:
Originally Posted by D1V3R
BTW I've tried the Apeks and they're okay......
Safe diving
Rich
I dive... :wink:Quote:
Originally Posted by carrive1
What you meant to tell him was to go buy some Sea Elites... aren't the the same reg as the Dive Rites? :smt066
For the dough vs performance, the Dive Rite RG1200 series is a really good choice (in my opinion). I have Dacor, Zeagle, and Dive Rite and I don't have any complaints about any of them or see any particular advantage of one performance wise. Properly tuned and maintained they all breathe well above 130ft (no deep stuff for me so far). The other main thing for me is the ability to do my own cleaning and servicing. With DR there is no dive shop conspiracy to not sell parts for servicing your own gear. You can download manuals, buy parts, go to training seminars and you don't get a bunch of LDS bull s$#@. Call up one of the local air fill stations in the Luraville area and tell them to make you a good deal...they will. The List price on an RG1208 first stage only is ~ $180. The design is super simple and performance has been flawless on both of mine in cave and open ocean diving. Kevin E.
Remember that Diverite requires people to post the MSRP price, but allows for huge discounts if you're buying more than one item. I bought a full setup for doubles (2 1st stages, 2 2nd stages, all hoses and spg) for a LOT less than the sticker price. Brand new. I'll refrain from mentioning who sold them to me (staying clear of forum rules), but he's on here. I'll PM you info if you're interested.Quote:
Originally Posted by D1V3R
Wil
Well I dive with Apeks regs and I love mine. I have dove with the Dive-Rite regs before I bought my Apeks to see what regs I wanted to buy well I went with Apeks. I have no problem breathing them and they breath just as good at 200' as they do at 20' I bought them not only for reliability but also for depth and the only two regs I would trust at depth is posiden or Apeks and I didn't have a Posiden wallet. Do some checking on Apeks and look into John Bennett. I think it is on Apeks website under Testimonials so just look into what you are going to use your regs for as for me I dive caves but I also plan to do some deep dives and deep cave and tech. dives also so I bought regs that will do it all for me and I am not displeased yet.
All I need is a reg, I have more 1st stages than I can count, lol.
How about the Dive-Rite RG1210, I can afford 100 bucks,but is the regulator okay?
and I'm still wondering about the OMS regs, they seem to be reasonably priced.
Remember thats your life line put a few dollars away for a few weeks or a month and get something better. I have always had the feeling get the best regs I can because at 1500 feet in and 100 feet down you don't want to worry about breathing. Just my point of view.
Michael
You would do well with Scubapro, which should be within your price range and has an excellent track record, and they still have the lifetime warranty on parts, which comes in handy every year at overhaul time.Quote:
Originally Posted by D1V3R
My 2c's.
Celia
I bought my first RG1200 for under $300 and with a $30 spring upgrade for the second stage adjustment it performs as well as any of the regs I've had. On a good sale RG2000's at $325 or so are a great purchess. Both have lifetime warranties covering annual parts for service.
I think I might be willing to try the DS4/ATX100 combo if I could find it at a good price. Don't the Apexs have service every 2 years? At every other year that service can add up.
I like how some of Scubapros configure but have heard too many complaints about failures and service to even try.
Guess it also depends on whether you do your own service or not and if you do whether you can get the parts and for how much.
Come on Jordan...Quote:
Originally Posted by carrive1
Aren't you being a bit biased since you work for DR?
DR regs are good but I still like mine. :-D
This is news to me. I've been around diving since 1986, where almost everyone I dive with used Scubapro. I've worked in a shop that sells Scubapro 90% of the time, for over ten years. I've been a technician for over nine years. I've never heard of a SINGLE failure of a Scubapro regulator.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary
Russell
They ain't doing you much good sitting in your garage... :roll:Quote:
Originally Posted by Dwain
......and while we're on the subject aren't you biased too since you work for Barry at Salvo who deals Apeks.......my mum used to call that "the pot calling the kettle black" :-D
Safe diving,
Rich
I think very highly of Scubapro, they might not be perfect but they also been honest and reliable with me. I have even called out to California and asked weird questions of engineering and they listen and give you an honest answer- usually “what the hell did you do that for?” MK10’s are not even a remotely new unit but getting a set of units rebuilt was a breeze; try that with Dacor- yeah right!
Also Steam Machines rebreathers and others use Scubapro MK2’s and they have run that unit regularly to 500 hundred feet. Warning- they rebuild the 1st stage and add Pillar valves to the tanks and lots of extras.
Later, Andrew
oh ####....he comes the fist fight ;-)Quote:
Originally Posted by Tegg
Let me guess he got married? :-DQuote:
Originally Posted by Rich
Just messing with you Dwain, hope all is well in your world.
Andrew
Quote:
Originally Posted by Titen
OK punk. Who do you think you are chiming into this thread? Do YOU want to go???
Watch out... He's a "Technical" Cave Diver... 8)Quote:
Originally Posted by carrive1
Of Course, My set of Apeks needs rebuilding after 3 years of constant use. That's why they are sitting. Don't have time to rebuild, because I'm diving my other set of APEKS regs. :smt046Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich
Hey you cant yell at me, 90% of my gear is Dive Rite...its your buddy Joe that has gone to the dark side...Apeks Regs and DUI Drysuit, who does he think he is? Irvine or something? :-DQuote:
Originally Posted by carrive1
Come on Joe, stop this whole jealousy over the Technical Cave Diver cert that I have....I dont make fun of your "Internet Cave Diver" cert that you have aquired....I know you have to have over 300 posts to get it :lol:Quote:
Originally Posted by Tegg
I don't have any experience with the DR regs, but I have heard a lot of good things. The best performing regulator for the buck that I have used would probably be an apeks. It's a sealed first stage, (if you want a new first stage).
You can probably pick up a Tx 40 second stage for less than a hundred bucks and a TX 50 second for a little more.
Jay
No, no one could ever be as good as Irvine. You know that...Quote:
Originally Posted by Titen
You're just jealous of all the internet cavediving hotties that I get... :wink:Quote:
Originally Posted by Titen
BTW, the Silver Dollar has some hot women waitin' on you to come back... :-D
I've used quite a few regs, from Scubapro Pilot to Sherwood Brut and then some.
I was using some Oceanic Delta3/CDX5s for a while until I got a chance to use the DiveRite RG2500 set. It's phenomenally better than most regs out there for the price (Street Price ~ $325).
okay well it looks like most ppl like these Dive Rite regs but there even more than a Poseidon, and I know how well poseidons work. I might end up going that way...
Why don't you do yourself a favor and test some regs?Quote:
Originally Posted by D1V3R
This way you see for yourself how they breathe and what you like?
I know at Cave Excursions they have Diverite regs that he will let you try... and a lot of people have Apeks regs , I am sure one would let you borrow one... and then also find a poseidon.
Seriously... might as well get the right one, the first time.
A good regulator is one that is reliable and has low work of breathing. You can not get much better than an Apex TX40 for work of breathing, the TX50 is not quite so good as the 'dial a breath' on the second stage does affect work of breathing very very slightly.
As to reliability, well we have 4 TX50s which have been trouble free for the past 7 years.
Peter
Thats a brilliant idea, thanx tegg. I know of some ways i can get some test dives in with other regs before i buy them, ill look into all theses regs you guys are mentioning. im sure ill find something better than what i have.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tegg
I've been diving Atomics B1s and M1s since '98 or '99. I've never had any issues regardless of depth. They breathe great and only require servicing every 2 years. I, personally, do mine once a year. They are a little pricey though. If you're going to side mount you will need to get the cave rings as well.
Recently, I dived Edds DR regs and they had the same performance as my Atomics and they cost less. Not going to sell the Atomics just point of fact.
What are cave rings?Quote:
Originally Posted by Nate Davey
Russell
Cave Ring.... that would be a ring that is lost in the cave. Then you have to go home to the wife and tell her that you lost a ring. :roll:Quote:
Originally Posted by Sludge
???¿ thats ummm... not smart...Quote:
Originally Posted by Dwain
I'm still waiting on the picture of her reaction when you told her this... (twice)... :-DQuote:
Originally Posted by Dwain
Atomic has a castlilated nut that holds their diaphrams in the second stage. They require a special tool to get them out. The cave ring replaces that nut with stainless steel threaded doohickey that can be tightened and loosened by hand. That way, if you fill your reg with muck you can clear it underwater without special tools. Also makes the reg slightly negative so it doesn't float away on you.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sludge
I didn't know that. We lost our Authorized Dealer status several years ago.
Russell