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I've started my intro course, and I have decided once and for all that I will not be doing doubles due to back issues. So I am looking to buy a tank (considering 85s and up.... maybe even hp ones too) and put an h-valve on it to use for intro diving. Must be up to date with hydro and inspection.
I too have back issues but found diving side mount eliminated them.
A single back tank did not eliminate my wife's problems with her back.
I'm just thinking you might want to rent the tanks till you see how things go with your class.
Sure. I did 2 checkout dives yesterday with an 85 and it was fine. I normally would immediately go to sidemount, but NACD doesn't allow it yet. If I end up changing agencies if and when I go to apprentice, I will do it.
I have a single 95 for sale. It's down at the Cave Country Dive Shop in High Springs. I believe I did the hydro in November of last year. $125 gets it.
Brent
I don't think the NACD cares if you do it in SM or BM. It's probably personal preference of your instructor.
NACD is BM only. They don't even allow CCR's.......yet.Quote:
Originally Posted by Greenwood_60
DO NOT buy an HP cylinder unless it already has an H-valve on it - the chances of finding a 7/8 H-valve by itself are slim to none.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pink Tank
Not all HP tanks are 7/8 neck threads. All the newer ones are 3442 psi and standard 3/4 threads. I'm sure Russell knew that and what he really meant to do was caution you to check the size before buying.Quote:
Originally Posted by Slüdge
Russell knows that the PST made Sherwood Genesis 3500 psi "HP" tanks have 7/8" valves while the 3442 psi special permit tanks made since then have 3/4" valves.
Don't bother with single tanks and H valves, not enough "air" to do anything with, trust me I went down that route, wasted precious money. Sidemount, only spend the money once
"HP" is a model. ALL of these have the skinny neck and are rated to 3500psi. Cylinders rated to 3442psi are "E-Series" or "X-Series," depending on the manufacturer. None of these have the skinny neck, and none of these carry the designation "HP."Quote:
Originally Posted by kwinter
ALL scuba cylinders are "high pressure."
I think the OP said she can't go sidemount.Quote:
Originally Posted by a64pilot
One time a long time ago I think I saw a debate on how far one could swim with a single tank versus doubles versus sidemount. As I recall, the consensus was that a single tank can get you quite a ways, in terms of bang for the buck. There are a fair number of dive sites (OW or otherwise) that have a long walk where I'd most certainly want a single. (Orange City Blue Spring, Buford, Troy...) Seems like a reasonable starting out setup to me, and the point of an H valve is that you can convert later, so the OP isn't "wasting money." You probably just didn't buy half of the set you wanted for sidemount first. :)
With that screen name, I hope he's a she.Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Hat Jef
DOH. Apologies.Quote:
Originally Posted by Slüdge
I believe it was NACD doesn't "do" sidemount, not she can't. but that is arguing semantics, I'll give you that.
1/6 of 85 cu ft is 14 correct, assume a SAC rate of .4, females don't use much air, at 66 ft I think air consumption would be 1.2 cu ft per min? Always forget , but I think the multiplication is by absolute pressure isn't it? Anyway that's 11.6 min. of gas, say 15 min as you don't start at 66 ft., but you do put in the line, swim through the cavern, so what maybe 8 to 10 min. in the cave? Or is my math screwy?
Intro on singles dive thirds.
My mistake then, so in that case a single tanks has as much gas as doubles.
I did adv rec trimix in a singe 130 with an H valve as I can't "hump" doubles. Even a 130 isn't enough gas to really do anything with, so I have essentially everything that I used for that course that sits unused, I can do sidemount as it only requires me to "hump" one tank at a time and gives me plenty of gas. I still say if your getting into this kind of diving before you buy anything decide for sure what your going to end up doing if possible, and I don't think there is much future in single tank cave diving, I think it's a stepping stone and you may end up with a BC, hoses, H valve etc. that are unused, yes I know you can convert many backmount BC's , but maybe it's not as good as a purpose made BC?
The main thing is that I'm not sure if I will ever go past intro diving. I currently have 2 aluminum 80s, but I figure it isnt worth getting an h valve put on one of those.
If I ever go sidemount, I assume I can use my AL80s for that. But for now, what else am I to do? And I hate renting tanks... I can't help but feel like I'm just throwing away money.
Just an FYI - on my intro dive, we got 800' back and I didn't yet hit my 1/3rds on an 85. I'd say my sac rate is pretty good.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pink Tank
This is incorrect. I'm an NACD instructor and most of my students dive sidemount. I do this with full authorization from the training director. Granted, NACD does not allow all of its instructors to teach in sidemount, but those of us with sufficient experience and qualifications in sidemount can teach NACD cave courses in sidemount.Quote:
Originally Posted by jcook
For what it's worth, I'm in sidemount due to shoulder injuries. NSS-CDS allows sidemount at all levels of instruction, with instructors approval.
Unless you plan on staying Intro, and going no further, you're going to have to transition to side mount at some point.
Just saying...
Personally, I was never comfortable going to thirds on a single tank at intro. The intent of the 1/3rds in a single, 1/6ths in doubles approach is to limit penetration distance to limit the time and distance needed to exit in the event of a problem. But 1/3rd of a single tank is just not a lot of gas and in addition a single tank with H valve is not fully redundant.
I think diving doubles to 1/6ths is much more prudent at the intro level.
Side mount offers a lot of advantages in terms of both comfort and utility, although there is a but more involved in getting the configuration dialed in. But if you can access an instructor who will teach you in that configuration it will shorten the learning curve and get you to a point of diving a fully redundant system that is very comfortable in the water and will work be much easier to manage physically than back mounted doubles.
And looking at it from the "throwing money away" perspective, you can get a nomad for around $400 - about the price of a new steel tank and a lot cheaper than the two steel tanks you'd probably want to own anyway.
In the big picture, side mount makes more sense than a single back mounted tank if your intent is to not proceed beyond intro.
I agree completely. I've only had one intro student in a single cylinder and only because her fiance was moving on to full cave (and already has) and she only wanted it to dive the Mexican cenotes. I doubt she'll do much diving in Florida caves and even if she does we discussed in class how 1/3s is not conservative enough, in doubles and especially in a single cylinder. Under most circumstances, I turn away anyone wanting to do intro in a single cylinder.Quote:
Originally Posted by DA Aquamaster
My experience was very different way back when. You were not permitted to do intro in doubles unless you already had a lot of experience with doubles in open water and your instructor signed off on it. It was up to the instructor to allow you to use doubles, but I got the impression it was frowned upon.Quote:
Originally Posted by RN
I say buy a set of manifolded doubles, say LP 85's, to take your class with. When that's done, split them, put plugs in the valves where the manifold attaches, and use them for sidemount.
For whatever reason, Pink Tank does not wish to go backmount. Why would you even say this?Quote:
Originally Posted by ScubaSteveL
Pink Tank -- what Rob said! The single cylinder just doesn't carry enough gas. Perhaps you could put off your cave class, and take a sidemount class. Then choose an instructor that trains you in the way of diving best for YOU.
I wish the agencies would figure out that more and more people are choosing not to carry the weight of Back Mount, and stop this stupid restriction. Some people dive sidemount for their health.
If the NACD instructor she chooses won't let her dive sidemount, just get through the course in backmount and dive sidemount later. Why spent money on a larger tank you're only going to use once??? Spend a little more, and now you have your two tanks for sidemount already in your possession. I do like your idea of taking a sidemount class then the cave class. I was just throwing out quick a suggestion.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jax
I have no back or health problems and I would still never dive backmount again.
Sent from my MB860 using Tapatalk
If I was closer I would just let you borrow one of my tanks.
That's not a bad idea.Quote:
Originally Posted by graepaep
I have a pair of 95's with modular valves we don't use that I'd loan with the option to buy later if she chooses. All she'd need to get is the "H" portion)(s) to add to the modular valve(s). We're probably headed fro N FL in April and I could leave them there.
I'm at the dive outpost in Luraville. I've got a pair of lp95's for sale with left and right valves.
Hey, Pink Tank . . . have you called the cave shops to see if any have a tank you can rent?
Why spend money on backmount gear just to take a course and then have to buy sidemount gear right after finishing the course?Quote:
Originally Posted by ScubaSteveL
Dive Outpost rents tanks, and the prices are reasonable.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jax
Quote:
Originally Posted by ScubaSteveL
And why do a cave course in back mount when you fully intend to switch to side mount immediately after? It makes no sense at all - just go with an instructor who'll teach you in sidemount.Quote:
Originally Posted by RN
Thanks to the people who told me I could borrow their tanks. Quite nice. Essentially I got a single wing for xmas and have 2 regs.... literally the only thing I needed was 1 intro tank. I intend to stay at intro for a very LONG TIME and may never progress past. If I do, i will buy sidemounting gear then. Until then, this is the most feasible choice for me. Some people aren't rich & retired with buttloads of money to blow. I appreciate the warm comments and suggestions though!
You've never split a set of doubles before and used them for sidemount??? She was just talking about tanks here, not a complete gear set up.Quote:
Originally Posted by RN
Borrow, beg, rent whatever it takes until you are sure you know what you want. You may stay intro, but I doubt it, I think it won't be that long before you start thinking with another tank and if I were Apprentice, I could go see what's around that corner, or do that cool jump everyone talks about, your hooked :)
Exactly. The GUE, UTD (and NAUI?) cave 1 certs are a lot more amenable to staying at that level than is Basic Cave (NSS-CDS) or Intro to Cave (NACD) as the latter two certs do not allow the same limited navigational decisions as the agencies that offer Cave 1'esque certs. Being able to make make even 1 or 2 navigational decisions opens up a lot more cave, even under the comparatively restrictive gas limits.Quote:
Originally Posted by a64pilot
Most wings are made for single cylinders or double cylinders. You stated "just get through the course in backmount and dive sidemount later. Why spent money on a larger tank you're only going to use once??? Spend a little more, and now you have your two tanks". In order to dive backmount it's more than just tanks.Quote:
Originally Posted by ScubaSteveL