Ax Men Episode w/Diver lost in cavern/cave

Did anyone see the "Ax Men" episode (originally aired 01/29/2012) where a diver looking for cypress logs enters a cavern/cave on the Suwannee, and loses visibility?

He's basically SOL, but he has topside communication, so the tender hears him losing it, and calls a nearby hookah diver, who motors over and sort-of assists in leading the guy out.

Anyway, my point in asking is that I wanted to see a map or survey of the system he was stuck in. They called it "the hell hole" on the episode, but I was wondering if anyone had an idea of the actual name.

I saw that episode too. It was interesting, but I really wonder how much of it was deliberate. Seems like they discussed the dangers but did nothing to prevent an accident - kind of like telling someone you will get burned if you jump in a fire and then jumping in.

No help on the location though.

It was staged to be make the show more dramatic.

You watch that stuff? Just kidding it and the gator hunting show is funny, I think a lot of it is staged though

I'll have to watch for it, I used to fill tanks for a lot of those Suwannee River loggers when I worked for Cathy...wonder if I'll recognize the guy(s)

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Originally Posted by a64pilot

I think a lot of it is staged though

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No way. If it's on TV then it HAS to be real. Kinda like the internet.

Perhaps we should have an accident investigation??? Much more facts than the current 10 pages of hypothetical crap, since it was seen on TV :)

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Originally Posted by giles45shop

Perhaps we should have an accident investigation??? Much more facts than the current 10 pages of hypothetical crap, since it was seen on TV :)

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Hey wanna come with us? Me and 40 angry peasant villagers with torches and pitchforks are headed over to that thread!
It is a little over the top isn't it?

Yes I'm kidding.

Maybe it wasn't videoed in a cave. It could just be a hole in the bank, that they said was a cave. :smt102

Yes, obviously much of what you see on reality shows is either greatly embellished for dramatic effect, or is out and out staged to create drama in an otherwise pretty boring occupation.

As an aside, I was talking with Linda Strait who was in the process of filling a large number of tanks for a logger. She mentioned how much money the guy made and it was yet another time I felt like kicking myself. I had a chance to get in on an operation logging rivers in the north east in the mid 80's and passed on it. Big mistake. I'd have been retired by now.

Reality shows suck. Plain and simple. They are crap. They have NO reality in them at all. I will not start a rant here. I will stop now.

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Originally Posted by JamesK

Reality shows suck. Plain and simple. They are crap. They have NO reality in them at all. I will not start a rant here. I will stop now.

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Aww, now why should this time be different? :lol:

I wondered the same thing about this episode. Pond Bear Swilly is "lost" in cave. Hooka diver enters cavern and finds diver just inside the cavern zone. No silt was present. Pond Bear Swilly's light was still functional. Vast amounts of light showed the exit where the two divers met to exit. If he was low on air, he entered the water with low air. He had only been down 5 minutes when this happened. This was definitely over dramatized for TV purposes.

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Originally Posted by Jax

Aww, now why should this time be different? :lol:

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LOL True.... :)

FWIW I am about realitied out myself. I would rather see how lawn chairs get made or watch WWII battle footage than any reality show.

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Originally Posted by JamesK

Reality shows suck. Plain and simple. They are crap. They have NO reality in them at all. I will not start a rant here. I will stop now.

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Yea, that is why no one ever watches pro wrestling;)

I saw a little of that episodes and the preview, even before the show started, I knew someone was going to have an emrgency in a cave/cavern. Nope, can't watch 'em.

I've always liked this scene regarding seeing things on television: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yqdHl83GBdg
I've also worked on a few reality/non-scripted television shows through the years and television reality is usually a bit different.

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Originally Posted by Wizard

FWIW I am about realitied out myself. I would rather see how lawn chairs get made or watch WWII battle footage than any reality show.

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You been looking through my window? Before Netflix, my wife used to complain our TV only got History and Discovery channel, except she called the History channel, the Hitler channel.

An offside question. What are loggers doing in rivers?

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Originally Posted by Me

An offside question. What are loggers doing in rivers?

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Gathering logs.

pulling out logs

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Originally Posted by Me

An offside question. What are loggers doing in rivers?

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"old growth" logs. They can be worth thousands for the right log. I read an article of a guy that found an old growth Birdseye Maple log in Lake Superior, he sold it for well over $10K and this was many years ago.

http://www.nytimes.com/1997/09/24/us...-treasure.html

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Originally Posted by Line Squirrel

"old growth" logs. They can be worth thousands for the right log. I read an article of a guy that found an old growth Birdseye Maple log in Lake Superior, he sold it for well over $10K and this was many years ago.

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What the squirrel said. There are certain fungi that get into some of the rings of the logs that enhances the beauty of the wood; it's called 'spalting'.

Splated maple, pecan, etc. will go for twice the board-foot cost of regular maple, etc.

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Originally Posted by Jax

What the squirrel said. There are certain fungi that get into some of the rings of the logs that enhances the beauty of the wood; it's called 'spalting'.

Splated maple, pecan, etc. will go for twice the board-foot cost of regular maple, etc.

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You get what amounts to a hologram in the wood. It's pretty amazing stuff.

I know of a 'lesser known' cave on a river in NFL that has a HUGE dense tree in it. It is inside the cave but definitely "old growth" log. Hmmm.... I have a boat maybe I just need a good winch... :)

Thanks! I figured there had to be a lucrative reason to collect water sodden logs from the river. Thanks for another nugget of knowledge from those who explained beyond the obvious. ;-/

"Spalting" - Check out some of these images on Google. Beautiful stuff...

http://www.google.com/search?tbm=isc...w=1088&bih=650

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Originally Posted by Tegg

I have a boat maybe I just need a good winch... :)

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When I bought a boat, I realized I no longer needed the wench. She just took away time from the boat.

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Originally Posted by Tegg

I know of a 'lesser known' cave on a river in NFL that has a HUGE dense tree in it. It is inside the cave but definitely "old growth" log. Hmmm.... I have a boat maybe I just need a good winch... :)

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There's mention in the series about "legal logs". I got the impression that the logs had to have been cut already (like a log that was cut a decade ago, and somehow lost in the river, either falling off of a logging barge, or floating off from a logging operation). It also wouldn't surprise me that a permit was needed for such an enterprise....

Imagine some yahoo trying to tow off the log at Devil's Ear while you decompress....

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Originally Posted by a64pilot

You been looking through my window? Before Netflix, my wife used to complain our TV only got History and Discovery channel, except she called the History channel, the Hitler channel.

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LMAO!!! My wife calls it the Hitler Channel! When I grab the remote all I hear is "I'm not watching any Hitler tonight!"

Back in the day (100-200 years ago) logs were floated down river as as many as 10% would "water log" and sink during the trip. Under the right conditions the wood can be in exceptional shape even after hundreds of years so you potentially have three things happening:

Large old growth logs that are no longer found anywhere else, and wood that has some very special properties due to the long soak in a low O2 / no O2 environment.

Some are highly prized for making musical instruments. As an example it's thought that Stradivarius soaked the wood he used for his violins for a long time changing the structure and giving them a unique tonal quality. In that context some logs are very highly prized and sought after.

Old growth logs are not just big either. In an old growth forest they grow slowly in the shade of taller trees so the growth rings are much closer together than in the case with modern tree farmed lumber, or trees grown in managed forest where trees are thinned, etc. that makes the old growth timber much more desirable in terms of density and strength as well.

Finally, over the decades hardwoods have been cut and replaced by much faster growing pine to turn a faster profit - but the resulting pine is generally used for paper pulp, often not being well suited even for general construction due to the wide growth rings and reduced strength. So logs recovered from rivers often represent a source of increasingly rare types of wood.

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Originally Posted by Wizard

LMAO!!! My wife calls it the Hitler Channel! When I grab the remote all I hear is "I'm not watching any Hitler tonight!"

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My EX wife called it that....

The floor in our house is reclaimed old heart pine that was lost just as described in the above post.

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Originally Posted by Wizard

FWIW I am about realitied out myself. I would rather see how lawn chairs get made or watch WWII battle footage than any reality show.

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Ditto

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Originally Posted by Wizard

FWIW I am about realitied out myself. I would rather see how lawn chairs get made or watch WWII battle footage than any reality show.

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Lawn Chair Wars!!!!

Remember when The Learning Channel was about learning? When The History Channel showed history? Discovery was about discovering nature and science? Arts and Entertainment actually showed arts and entertainment?

I tell the kids at school that MTV used to show music videos all day long and they look at me like I'm crazy.

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Originally Posted by Slüdge

Remember when The Learning Channel was about learning? When The History Channel showed history? Discovery was about discovering nature and science? Arts and Entertainment actually showed arts and entertainment?

I tell the kids at school that MTV used to show music videos all day long and they look at me like I'm crazy.

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Those were the days! Now TLC is horrible. History and Discovery still have some decent shows though. MTV just plain sucks.

My first set of gear was bought for me by my older brothers so I could hook up logs while they towed them to the ramp. I'll give you guys a little background on this if you'll bear with a rather long post...

During the vast logging operations of the early 20th century, many thousands of logs were lost in the rivers, mostly due to the old growth wood being so dense it sank, in the case of pine. Cypress was usually ringed and deadened some time before it was cut down in order to make it lighter, so it was not as prone to sink unless it stayed in the water long enough to become waterlogged.

For many years, any logs in Florida rivers were considered part of the environment and there was no legal way to retrieve them. As there were few law enforcement officers on the river, and most of them seemed to have little interest in bringing a case against people pulling logs, many people took logs whenever the opportunity presented itself.

At some point, someone realized that these logs were lost property, and it was decided that they fell under the rules for marine salvage. At this time the state began issuing permits, and within a few years most of the logs were cleaned out.

If a log does not show signs of having been cut by humans, it is not a legal log, as it is not salvage.

To give you an idea of how many logs there were: Just above Fanning Springs, the is a turntable railroad bridge. The first time I dove it, there was a pile of old growth pine logs the size of a house lodged against the upstream side of the turntable. Snaking them out of there was like playing a giant game of zero gee pickup sticks. :)