Where:Wakulla County Agricultural Extension office,Crawfordville-The Arena
Agenda: Call to order
Intro of staff
Opening remarks on the introduction of recreational cave diving at Wakulla Springs
Public comments
Summary of comments
Adjourn
Printable View
Where:Wakulla County Agricultural Extension office,Crawfordville-The Arena
Agenda: Call to order
Intro of staff
Opening remarks on the introduction of recreational cave diving at Wakulla Springs
Public comments
Summary of comments
Adjourn
Thanks Kelly!
Thanks Kelly
This is awesome.
The Arena is located at 84 Cedar Avenue in Crawfordville, FL.
If at all possible, please be at the public meeting. We need to have a big show in numbers if at all possible. Bring friends, family, and distant aquaintances; go grab a bite to eat somewhere in town afterwards. Have a beer, stay Friday and dive :)
http://ageconsearch.umn.edu/bitstrea...6-MORGAN-C.pdf
Link to an article "studying" the interest of the dive community in paying for diving in caves.
Good luck all but I doubt you'll get it open that quick ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by SuPrBuGmAn
Anyone want to meet for supper before the meeting? Not sure I can wait to post-meeting:)
This is awesomeQuote:
Originally Posted by SuPrBuGmAn
---
I am here: http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=30.334733,-81.650954
What, you mean I'm going to have to fall back to one of the other of several dozen dive sites that are currently in pretty decent shape ATM? ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Line Squirrel
Yes :DQuote:
Originally Posted by sandy
Will the NACD or the CDS be sending official representatives to this meeting. I would think this would be in the best interest of both agencies. Joel
Yes, the Chairman of the NSS-CDS will be there.Quote:
Originally Posted by jlcdvr
If anyone doesn't watch the news, here is a link that may interest you:
http://www.wtxl.com/mediacenter/loca...ideoid=3153380
If you did see the news that night you would notice that the version that aired at 6pm was different. I can't find a version online but the news reporter said something about the parks not needing anymore money.... If anyone has a link to the 6pm version could you please post it.
Is the goal free, unrestricted diving or pay-per-dive or even (shudder) guided dives? I plan to attend and am supportive of the first goals, but not so supportive of the latter. Any access is better than none, I guess.
Wow Forrest. Thanks for the quick answer. Nothing from the NACD?Quote:
Originally Posted by FW
Joel
I am an NACD member, but not an NACD BoD member :-)Quote:
Originally Posted by jlcdvr
The goal is unrestricted diving, but park fees will need to be paid all the same($5 entry). We want unrestricted access, the meeting is about telling them what we want. This is not a meeting for negotiating, if it comes to that, it'll be later - not at this meeting.Quote:
Originally Posted by kmev
Thanks. Are you wishing that everyone come prepared to saw a few words, or just attend?Quote:
Originally Posted by SuPrBuGmAn
Quote:
Originally Posted by SuPrBuGmAn
I imagine that the regulators already know what we (cave divers) want (cave diving). I think the question that they want answered is something along the lines of "what’s in it for me?" or in other words, why in Gods name should we open the crown jewel of all springs to people to swim around and get killed in, oh and take stuff and mark up the walls too. thats what they want to know.
I personally think its silly not to allow access. People die on state-funded golf courses daily. Cavedivers have much less impact on the visitors and environment then that drunk, shirtless, Rhodes scholar that was cursing at me in front of my son last time I was there.
The bottom line is that Wakulla is different, always has been. We have to convince the folks that are taking the time out of their night to listen to us that it’s the same as all the rest (at least those that are state funded and open).
We were told that "anyone who would like to speak will be given the opportunity to do so". That being said, a large presence is probably also important.Quote:
Originally Posted by kmev
There are lots of locals here who are not cave divers but who are cavern and open water trained that are in support of opening Wakulla (and all the associated springs/sinks in the area) This wont be just for cave divers.
So far, the following NACD representatives plan to be at the meeting.Quote:
Originally Posted by jlcdvr
Larry Green, NACD Training Director,
Rob Neto, NACD Conservation Chairman (and NSSCDS Educational Outreach Chairman),
Jason Ottinger, NACD Emerald Representative, and
Sandy Robinson, NACD PR Chairman
There may be some others attending but I do not have their names yet.
Also, the NACD President sent the following to the NACD BOD so I will post it here for everyone's information.
"It is the position of the NACD that all state resources should be available to all qualified divers who wish to use them. It is the right of all tax paying citizens of the State of Florida to have access to the parks which our tax dollars support. For too long some of these resources have been limited to a select few while others pay the taxes and fees for the parks support. The above forum gives us a voice to make our concerns known to the state authorities, I encourage you to take action in one of the following ways:
1. Attend the meeting listed above on Thursday Jan. 19th, 2012 and let your voice and vote be heard.
2. If you are unable to attend, Please send your written comments to Division of Recreation and Parks’ Office of Park Planning, 3900 Commonwealth Blvd, Mailstation 525, Tallahassee, FL 32399.
This proposal will go a long way in setting a policy by the state that will have a uniform policy for all state owned property with cave systems.
Please take an active role,
Sincerely,
Bert Wilcher
President, NACD."
We hope to see you in Crawfordville on the 19th if you are in the area.
Sandy Robinson
pr@safecavediving.com
Real importantQuote:
Originally Posted by NACD
I am also planning to be there to represent the NSS-CDS.
Frank Ohidy, Director, NSS-CDS.
Glad to hear both agencies will be represented here. JoelQuote:
Originally Posted by NACD
Sent my letter from NY. Will there be a recording of the meeting?
Thank you for the letterQuote:
Originally Posted by tmccar1
I've got my letters sent.
Got my letters sent. Anything else I can do to help?
Be there!Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesK
Sandy, Bert:Quote:
Originally Posted by jlcdvr
Thanks for the support!
We look forward to seeing you as well the rep's from the NSS-CDS!
Thank youQuote:
Originally Posted by Squirrel Girl
If I was home, I would. However I am stationed in Cuba right now. I think a letter is all I might be able to do from here, but you never know, that is why I ask.Quote:
Originally Posted by cwick
The irrelevant posts were moved to the Fill Station.
folks, the debate is really heating up, and the opposition is pulling all strings to keep Wakulla to themselves. There will be a huge number of vocal opponents, having being told that cave divers will destroy Wakulla.
if you can, somehow, make it to the meeting, please do! Bring anyone you can hold of, this is a show of strength.
We have negotiated with the Best Western to support our event. See http://book.bestwestern.com/bestwest...ertyCode=10361
... Tell them you are part of the Wakulla County Dive Club initiative to open Wakulla to Diving. The manager offered a special rate.
If you can make it, the Wakulla County Dive club organises a pre-meeting on the 19th at 5 pm at the Wakulla Dive Center (http://www.wakulladiving.com/). Food will be available, sponsored by the club, Wakulla Dive Center and Rebreather Solutions.
Bring warm clothes,but leave your emotions behind.
Spread the word!
http://www.facebook.com/#!/groups/159958854052655/
General observations from way over in Texas...
The Friends of Wakulla springs Facebook page is completely dominated by Sue Cook. One person is making so much noise, its amazing. She's so pent up, she needs a scuba lesson. If she could actually enjoy up close that part of the park she is so vocally intent to protect, she would understand why people LOVE the environment. Sad situation.
Be calm, be of one mind. Speak carefully, and dont come across like this poor lady who obviously cares about something, but comes off as a ranting obsessed busy-body. If the divers are drawn into an emotional exchange, we will all lose the opportunity. It would be a good idea to have someone or several act as a spokesperson and prepare careful presentations and prepare responses to anticipated objections. I'm sure the agency heads are doing this now.
Treat it like court. 20 emotional divers returning emotional retorts will guarantee defeat. Not saying that everyone that wants to speak shouldn't get their chance, but lets face it, in every war, there is a time for warriors and a time for diplomats. Let the buldogs withdraw and bind their wounds (we love and appreciate you for getting us the opportunity) while cooler heads negotiate the tricky path ahead. Resist the urge to snap at ignorant statements by the opposition.
:clapper :clapper :clapperQuote:
Originally Posted by Skorpiov
I vote for the Old Fat Guy.Quote:
Originally Posted by Skorpiov
I feel really bad, I thought the "F" stood for something else. :smt102
Me too! But you should be specific that you mean OFG-1.Quote:
Originally Posted by Slüdge
Too many of us fit the generic old fat guy description. :)
Okay, I vote for the #1 Old Fat Guy.
Several things that I have learned from this thread:
1. Show up next Thursday.
2. What an idiom is.
3. What OFG stands for.
4. While I may stroke myself, I stoke my ego:)
Some of the businesses in Wakulla County don't seem to believe there will be a financial impact from divers, if you will be at the meeting next Thursday and you stop to buy anything (gas, food, etc) please inform the merchant why you are here.
We need Wakulla community support as well as cave diver support. This will help!
I thought it was Overly Flatulent Gargoyle.Quote:
Originally Posted by sandy
Does anyone have a copy of this Tallahassee Democrat article that appeared yesterday that they could post or provide a link to?
Cave diving at Wakulla Spring
Jan 14, 2012 | By Jennifer Portman Deomcrat Senior Writer ... considering changing a 26-year-old policy to allow recreational and commercial cave diving at Wakulla Spring. A group of area cave divers and instructors approached the department last year ...
Thanks. Bill
You can get a 24-hour access for two bucks.
http://www.tallahassee.com/apps/pbcs...=2012120112018
Thanks Russell. Hope to see you there,if not,a letter will be appreciated very muchQuote:
Originally Posted by Slüdge
If anyone needs a place to crash for this event, shoot me a line.
I have two inadaquately small couches and lots of floorspace if anyone needs a place to stay. It ain't much, but yall're welcome.
Or stay in a local hotel...Quote:
Originally Posted by SuPrBuGmAn
Even better, but if available funds are keeping you from having an opinion at this meeting, I stand by my offer.Quote:
Originally Posted by LiteHedded
Divers are Ready to spend that money in Wakulla county!
I'd be prepared for more than the money argument. *Some* people are swayed by money. But it you're in charge of protecting a resource, and opening it up to the public might damage that resource, you probably don't care if they spend money in the county.Quote:
Originally Posted by PfcAJ
While the money argument is important, I'd stress how little damage cave divers do. How, on those rare occasions when damage occurs, we've gone after and prosecuted the guilty, PLUS restored the damage, and parks are open to far more serious threats from casual visitors.
We can enhance the visitor experience for boat riders and photographers. We can easily get on with swimmers. We can work with authorities to collect data regarding fossils, geology (and unlikely, archaeology). We have a good track record at other parks, eg. Wes Skiles Peacock Springs SP.
It is easy to find graffiti in systems that are open to open water divers, and very hard to find in systems that are not. Based on Ginnie/Devil's, Peacock/OG, LR, Madison, Troy, Devil's Den, Blue Grotto, Paradise. In the cave/cavern diver only systems, there is none (or close to none). The OW sites are littered with it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Squirrel Girl
Please, if you have not sent a letter in the past 3-4 months, please write again.
and, if possible, PLEASE attend the meeting and lend your support. This is as close as we have ever been to opening Wakulla to divers, but we need every seat filled so that we can show the decision-makers that we are serious about supporting the park if we are allowed access.
Public meeting opening Wakulla
Thurs, Jan 19, 2012
7:00pm (Eastern) until 10:00pm
Wakulla County Agriculture Extension Office
The Arena
84 Cedar Avenue
Crawfordville, Florida
There's some road construction starting on Crawfordville Highway at 6:30PM today, north of The Arena. Please allow for more drive time from Tallahassee if you are taking this particular route, or take another route. Thanks
If anyone from High Springs wants to carpool to the meeting send me a PM
Stop by Bills shop or Dive outpost, I think they are both sending vehicles of people.
I don't Twitter, but maybe somebody can update us tonight on how the meeting went? Here or on Facebook or both?
I'm here now. It's a room full of people.
---
I am here: http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=30.185265,-84.379092
Wish I coulda made it. Give 'em hell boys : )Quote:
Originally Posted by tflaris
---
Good luck guys. Thanks.
A snippet of video of shown on the 11 o'clock news. Channels 11 Tallahassee.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
WCDC, Sorry I couldn't be there, I'm 5hrs away on workdays.
Thanks for the efforts to all that attended.
News Story posted:
http://www.tallahassee.com/article/2...diving-Wakulla
"allowing scuba divers into Wakulla would be like building a gas station over the spring" - Casey McKinlay
I was there, and honestly, I'm still trying to wrap my brain around what just happened. (I'm kind of at a loss for words.) To say the least, this was "unexpected."
Ed Ball, former owner & developer of Wakulla Spirings, had a saying, "Confusion to the enemy." Well, our opponents took notice: They played the Manatee card! (HUH?)
Yes, the first (and the next appx. forty speakers) went off on a tangent about Manatees! (Some even had little gray blow-up manatees...) After that it got "wierd." Excuse me but, WTF!!!
I have been to Tijuana, San Francisco, Ripley's Museum and the Alabama State Fair, but this took the prize.
I want a drink & I'm going to bed.
It was different. 114 speakers. There were a few that just went up and stated, "I oppose scuba diving at Wakulla." and then sat down. Most of those for diving got up and presented good arguments as difficult as that was to do in 90 seconds. This is only the first step of many. I believe they stated there are about six steps in this process. I think that's an understatement. Be prepared to attend more meetings.
The Forum last night went very well! Thanks to all of people who spoke up in favor of opening Wakulla!
So if you had to guess, what was the percentage for and against diving (out of the 114 who spoke)?
My next letters will include 8X10 glossy photos of the wkpp habitat crudely anchored to this pristene bottom, photos of their tons of gear and people being hauled about, and then photos of the average cave diver conservatively navigating cave. If the.wkpp only wanted science and not EOL glory, they would carefully plan and execute a short dive to drop water sampling gear, maybe one mapping effort. According to their own logic there is no reason for them to ever go back and push passage. If they do come back, will the opponents be rallied? The manatee protectors be protesting?
Write letters, address the arguments, and as a community we should draft a sample management plan and/or impact analysis that addresses each point of community concern as a single representational voice publicly and also many voices from private addresses.... But the.message should be.unified and address concerns of theirs.
Thanks again to everyone and to Wakulla Dive Center for their local media efforts.
This isn't a pay my $100 & get my I survived wakulla bungee jump style T shirt dive, we have those in other locations. This is spend a half decade or more training and earning the right and training and investing ten thousand dolllars in training and gear working your way up the experience chain to some day carefully dive there.
The public meeting was respectful and I believe our letter writing efforts can be as well. Highlight the positives. Let's not turn this into diver vs diver, I don't think that is necessary. The diving speakers overwhelmingly had a positive message and were for some type of controlled access. There were a few exceptions for unlimited access and even one diver making threats which was very embarrassing, but the message was heard. Obviously this is only one step and I can't say what the panel members were thinking but I felt the meeting was positive.
This was the email address that they provided for comments on the meeting to be sent to:
Jessica.k.sims@dep.state.fl.us
Point taken, MY letters will address solutions not.point out hypocrisy. Staying positive is the path to trust.
It was an interesting meeting. A number of cave divers attended so the support was good. I am guessing there were 80 cave divers and another 20 OW divers. After the meeting, I heard a couple of the opposition talk about the number of divers present - they were expecting 20 so we exceeded their expectations.
I was surprised by the comments about the manatees and the harm that we would do. There is a much higher percent chance of one of the Wakulla boats or swimmers harming or harrassing a manatee than a diver. I have never seen a manatee deeper than 10 feet or so. But with the availability of helium maybe they will go deeper.
The big disappointment for me was the number of references to a lack of conservation, vandalism, or theft from the cave should cave divers be allowed. many of these comments came from old people but same come from OW divers and a few cave divers. In particular was the comment from the cave diver(wore a blue GUE shirt) who mentioned the whale's tooth/bone at Ginnie with the chisel marks around it and insinuating the same could happen at Wakulla. I am sorry but of the cave divers I know, there is no greater chance of them disturbing anything at Wakulla that the current divers there.
Write your letters if you have not done so already.
And if you prefer to send a letter, the address is:
Jessica Kemper Sims
3900 Commonwealth Blvd
TLH, FL 32399
I know of two people who counted speakers and I was told by one of them "that there were 6 more in favor of opening than opposed".Quote:
Originally Posted by gasdiver
It was defiantly an interesting meeting, I was caught a little bit off guard by the number of people there in support of not allowing diving...for the sake of the manatees. I didn't speak but I think several points need to be brought up to the DEP so I will be writing an email/letter to them soon.
I thought it was pretty funny the lady talking about the crown that WKPP divers must have for being so proud of themselves.
Quick picture I took of the crowd.
I thought the meeting went very well for the "for diving" side.
I was a littler nervous when I got there to all the little signs and badges with "No diving" on them. The pro vs no speakers seemed to be pretty even(apparently with pro slightly in favor). Divers pro were in the greater majority, with the divers against bringing up damage to the cave, missing artifcats and fossils. The rest of the against(non divers) seemed more focused on divers disrupting manatees and tour boats. I heard two instances of tourboats hitting manatees yesterday, which was ironic.
Thanks, everybody. Thanks for representing us. I would have gone, but 900 miles was just too far.
Surely there's well established precident for diving and manatee interaction elsewhere in FL?
Blue Springs State Park closes to diving when manatees are present. Crystal River I believe is the only place where you can interact, and some boats (Birds underwater) are very good while others harass the manatees frequently.Quote:
Originally Posted by Squirrel Girl
Manatee Springs.....closes headspring when manatees are in and uses carry capacities to control impact.Quote:
Originally Posted by Squirrel Girl
In writing my letter, I'm listing other successfully managed cave systems. Here's what I have so far: Indian, Clear Cut, Emerald, Alachua, Cathedral, School, Hart, Cow, the Diepolders.
Can anyone think of any others?
Phil Foster Park (county operated) has diving and manatees. I don't think anyone would be opposed to closing the park to divers during manatee season.
According to the "Friends" score keeper, there were 61 "for" and 61 "against", but she counted the non-committal Chamber of Commerce rep's comments as an "against", and I think Rob's 114 total count is correct. I would have guessed comments were even, or perhaps +5 for diving. We had 2 divers from Switzerland, one from Michigan, and one from Tampa (I think one from the Largo area too).
I also agree that this isn't an us (divers) vs. them (wkpp) argument. Their comments were insulting, and I posted them so that everyone would know how they feel about divers (in case there was any doubt) but it doesn't do our side any good to bicker with them in front of state authorities.
where did you post them? And OBTW, thanks to all of you for representing us that could not attend.Quote:
Originally Posted by Benderr
I would consider that it *might* be reasonable to close a cave temporarily while manatees are around. I don't think cave diving is more important that manatee refuges. But I'd like to know some real facts about what the impacts from cave divers are. It's hard to imagine that cave divers would scare away the manatees. But again, I'm one of the crazy people who would like real evidence. Whichever way it leads.Quote:
Originally Posted by Benderr
Quite the contrary, the manatees scare the crap out of me. I was doing a commercial job in the Port of Palm Beach, waist deep in a jammed bow thruster on a Tropical ship, and I had the feeling, You know, the one where you are being watched. So I pulled out of the hole, looked around, only about 4 ft vis, and then pushed away and out from the hull. There, 6" in front of my face, a manatee staring at me, and I think sticking out its tongue. I go "OH S**T", and the guys tending me heard it (I was in a hat) and dragged me from 12 feet underwater up and onto a dock in 10 seconds or less, with me yelling most of the seven words you cant say on tv for them to stop. Tits was the only one I did not use, I think, wasn't appropriate for that situation, but the rest were.Quote:
Originally Posted by Squirrel Girl
So there, hard facts, the manatees are dangerous.
Great story!Quote:
Originally Posted by OFG-1
Would you want to include WSPSSP and Madison? Maybe a little different than the above but still there is a process through the park system.Quote:
Originally Posted by L.A.
I was quoting a comment from CM earlier in this thread from memory. I have since found a more accurate quote in the Tallahassee Democrat (see below). I disagree with CM, but I don't want to responsible for misquoting him, so hopefully a mod will see this and correct my earlier post...Quote:
Originally Posted by TONY CHANEY
Quote:
“It may not be a proposal to build a gas station on top of the spring, but recreational diving is no less serious,” said Casey McKinlay, project manager of the Woodville Karst Plain Project, which has a research permit to dive the spring and its vast, more than 30-mile underwater cave system for research purposes. “I believe it needs protection and to be preserved for future generations.”
Two people at the meeting claimed to have been on a Wakulla tour boat when it struck a manatee. There are scores of photos on the public domain that show WKPP divers in the same frame as a manatee. Whatever damage is being done, is already in progress, but again, everyone I have spoke to says it is reasonable to close the park to diving during the manatee stays. I'm guessing it's not NECESSARY, but it's certainly worth compromising over for the sake of caution.Quote:
Originally Posted by Squirrel Girl
So far, each and every concern I have seen raised, can be dealt with by proper park management.
Manatees - No diving while in the park
Primitive Boats - Already use a different part of the river
Glass Boats - Hardly ever run anyway, but ingress/egress routes can be established
Graffiti - Only plastic cutting-tools available
Theft - Divers subject to search by park authorities, ride to jail provided at no extra cost
Interference w/Swimmers - Really???
Safety - Minimum Certs
Too many Divers - Maximum Capacity (paid reservation system? alternate spring to dive on park property?)
Water Quality - Force divers to pee in their drysuits (no pee valves allowed)
Okay, maybe that last one is a little extreme..... 20, 40, 50 divers peeing in Wakulla every day will have a hard time competing with the 200 small-bladdered children recycling Ritalin and overpriced coke products into the spring all season long.
I don't appreciate you calling me a small-bladdered child
Let me assure you that mine is much, much smaller.Quote:
Originally Posted by SuPrBuGmAn
I need about ten minutes of your time Mat, give me a shout on my cell when you have it.
Thanks,
ap
will safety scissors be allowed?Quote:
Originally Posted by Benderr
I have never been to Wakulla Spring so I am not sure how many people may be in the water. But if cave divers co-exist with the swimmers at JB on a hot July weekend who also use a diving board about the cavern entrance at JB, we can do it most anywhere.Quote:
Originally Posted by Benderr
So, do you prefer being called a large bladdered child?Quote:
Originally Posted by SuPrBuGmAn
Really? I'm sure NONE of the people who swim there pee in the water. The thought that cave divers using overboard discharge would affect water quality is absurd.Quote:
Originally Posted by Benderr
I didn't count. 114 was what one of the panel members stated at the end of the meeting.
FWIW, I've been in the water with manatees at Devil's. They didn't look one bit stressed at seeing our group. In fact, they swam around us a couple of times checking us out. I've also seen manatees in Crystal River with scars that were very obviously caused by propellers. I am all for protecting manatees. So if they really want to protect the manatees then it would be the boating activities that would need to be ceased. Bringing up the manatees is just an excuse by the non-informed.
Don't know... I'm not writing the regs, just proposing that management solutions exist for every concern that I have heard to date. If you have better ideas, I'm all ears.Quote:
Originally Posted by LiteHedded
It was a joke, but water quality is a concern. I think a legitimate one, but I haven't seen anything to suggest a limited number of divers would have a significant effect on water quality (assuming we're not talking about the first day after taco-night, or open-water students) (also a joke)Quote:
Originally Posted by L.A.
This really is the big issue that the local community and Friends of Wakulla (as well as cave divers) need to focus their attention. Everybody agrees that Wakulla is a pristine site,but it is dying,and so are quite a few other springs. Longterm residents will tell stories of when this spring was air clear,now reaching the point that glass bottom boats can't run. I remember hearing comments from the audience that they don't want the spring trashed,but as was noted their brothers to the north are the problem,and I am sure many are residents of the northern county. If the water quality of Wakulla continues to decrease that will have a larger impact on toursim than any single concern that was brought up.Quote:
Originally Posted by Benderr
Absolutely, I'm sensitive about my bladder size.Quote:
Originally Posted by OFG-1
Wait until you double in age:)Quote:
Originally Posted by SuPrBuGmAn
Wait? Of course, I'm in no hurry :)Quote:
Originally Posted by sandy
My thoughts about the meeting.
A few comments I heard that bothered me were by some of the experts. One was that while cave divers will damage the bones by disturbing them. They do not understand that the current permit holders are dusting them off right now for people to see them better. So its if wrong its already being done but should be stopped. Anther was by a well known protector of caves that normally supports cave diving. He just thought it was too sensitive. I really had hoped he had been on our side. There was quite a few science groups against us but not all.
Another was that it was implied that only the WKPP can help protect caves. They have had done excellent work over the years but similar work has been done over the years for other systems by others. I did not hear much about how we have worked together in the past as well as actions by different groups.
There was talk of all the sensitive scientific work being stolen. We have had these in lots of systems for years and I have yet to have heard of one being taken in highly traveled systems. One fellow did talk about his research project being left alone but it was in remote areas. We need to let them know where lots of people have traveled this has been no issue.
There were people talking of allowing OW diving there. I believe most of us think that is not smart. In general we also were perceived as folks who do graffiti. Kelly tried to dismiss that most of this was from OW divers and that we prosecuted someone for just such an act and set up a reward fund. Several people used what we said about the damage being from the one percent being too much not making allowing the 99 percent to use it due to this. Its my opinion we need to develop signs like the grim reaper but talking about conservation especially at sights the OW divers have access.
In general we it seems the general public does not understand our sport. Somehow we need to get the word out better.
There was limited talk about some of the other sites being opened. I personally think there should be some compromise on this subject. I personally cringed when someone took a real aggressive approach with talks of federal law suites as its our right. I think that it is a privilege and not a right and the quickest way to stop it would be this approach but that's just my opinion.
As to the manatee encounters closing it during that season would work but I really believe that the people who get to see them up close and personal with the scars on their back are some of the strongest supporters of helping them.
I do not think the general public understands how much divers care after just one encounter.
There is a lot of misconception about the whole process and just how few people would even qualify to dive the main spring. There would not be tons of people who get to do it.
Anther thing I heard was that our expenses were overblown. We need really good numbers to summit to the different groups that this might make a difference. They really do not trust us and to some its too short sighted to open it for what they consider short term benefits. Really good accounting reports and the ability to do this over long term would be useful. Some of this was addressed but as others have said it is hard to do in 90 seconds.
This is just my thoughts of course after listening to most everyone.
Tom
I have EVERY single cave diving equipment and fill receipt going back to when I started a few years ago. I didn't save hotels, but do have all of the receipts for tangible gear from cavern through intro. I could scan these, and spreadsheet them, to show an example of how much a.low level caver has invested. And I will spend another $5000 or so building up training and gear to eventually dive to 300 ft in Wakulla one day.
As a group, do we see value in. me doing this and submitting to the representatives such as Wakulla Dive Center & Wakulla County Dive Club for which I am a member? I know I'm nowhere near the level of those currently qualified to dive there, but our budget numbers might be more believable if we provide them with a real world example with a box of receipts to show at the meeting and a pdf version to submit electronically.
Just make sure this file never hits my wife's email inbox!! Its WAY more than her car costs.