Solo Diving

Asking for your thoughts. Do think it is OK to solo dive using the rule of thirds and carrying a Pony with a capacity of at least 1/3rd of your gas supply. In this case if you had a catastrophe failure at your deepest penetration you would still have enough gas to get out.
I'm not talking about exploration diving here just trying to get experience towards Full Cave. If you feel thats acceptable were can you make the dives? I know the state parks prohibit Solo diving. If you think Solo diving is not acceptable I would like to hear from you also.

I'm a big fan of solo dives while not in an overhead. I find it very relaxing, but it is also comforting for me to see another light either behind me or in front while I'm cave diving.

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Originally Posted by B-Bob

trying to get experience towards Full Cave.

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I see two issues here. First, IMHO solo cave diving should only be done once you have significant full cave experience. Cave diving should already be "easy/comfortable" before thinking of doing it solo.

Second, communication and team awareness is a very (if not the most) important part of full cave training, by diving alone you will actually get worse at this part. Because you are in a learning phase, diving solo is likely to create bad habits.

If you really want to get more experience before full cave, my recommendation is to find people to dive with. The best experience you can get is to dive with different divers with different levels of training (above and below you). Diving with new people will show you good/bad/new/different techniques. You can find buddies on here. Ask you past instructor to put in touch with past students of his.

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Originally Posted by B-Bob

Asking for your thoughts. Do think it is OK to solo dive using the rule of thirds and carrying a Pony with a capacity of at least 1/3rd of your gas supply. In this case if you had a catastrophe failure at your deepest penetration you would still have enough gas to get out.

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You assume that your gas consumption rate AFTER a primary gas failure will be the same as before the failure. It will not. Just the extra effort involved with swimming with your shorts full of crap will change your consumption rates.

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Originally Posted by B-Bob

If you think Solo diving is not acceptable I would like to hear from you also.

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IMO out of all the risks involved in diving solo, gas management is the least priority. Very few people die cave diving because they didn't have adequate gas to get out, they die because they make mistakes which lead to needing more gas than should be adequate. Without a backup brain you've got no one to catch your mistakes, so throwing tons of gas at the issue is realistically the next best thing.

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Originally Posted by jj1987

IMO out of all the risks involved in diving solo, gas management is the least priority. Very few people die cave diving because they didn't have adequate gas to get out, they die because they make mistakes which lead to needing more gas than should be adequate. Without a backup brain you've got no one to catch your mistakes, so throwing tons of gas at the issue is realistically the next best thing.

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+1

Totally agree.

It also comes down to do you trust the people you dive with. I personally don't, save for a couple people. Will they be there in an emergency and know what to do to save your life (probably not for me since I dive a complicated-ass rebreather), or are they just putting you at higher risk because they are just a liability in the long run. Whether they are ill-trained or just lackadaisical toward safety. Do whatever you can to mitigate your own risks before anything else.

Just my 2 cents.

All my cave diving is done with a team. But when I go to the Keys, I usually dive alone. The boat captins and divemasters at the shop I dive out of all know me from my many previous trips with them. When diving anything below 65 feet, for I can get to the surface comfortably without air from that depth, I use one of my 95's with an "H" valve and a north florida fill. My last trip down there in June, I conducted a buoyance clinic on the boat deck while we were traveling out to The Eagle. None of the other divers on the boat had ever seen a DIN valve, much less an H valve. When asked who the redundant regulator was for.....I just smiled and said "thats for me". All of them came away with a better understanding of why we cave divers gear up the way we do and why "less is better" i

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Originally Posted by jj1987

IMO out of all the risks involved in diving solo, gas management is the least priority. Very few people die cave diving because they didn't have adequate gas to get out, they die because they make mistakes which lead to needing more gas than should be adequate. Without a backup brain you've got no one to catch your mistakes, so throwing tons of gas at the issue is realistically the next best thing.

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Backup brain. I like it.

And I totally agree.

Carry more gas than thirds and keep it far back. For shorter dives an extra pony accomplishes this.

Solo diving is a tool, and not the best one if your goal is experience for class. A buddy to critique you adds a lot of value when preparing for a class. In fact, I believe a few divers who have gotten a reputation for being terrible divers have turned to solo diving due to lack of buddies. Solo diving let's you get lazy, and also carries a high penalty for laziness, a double whammy of sorts.

I solo dive, even when in a team. Although i do true solo dive occasionally. As a sidemount diver, I am my own gas backup. When I solo dive it is main line only and only in cave systems I am very familiar with. Not having a backup brain, I stick to familiar cave without complex navigation. I am full cave, with well over 100 cave dives in a variety of systems over two countries. I've had a few scary moments and feel confident in my ability to deal with problems, but I am only comfortable doing this solo in extremely familiar environments. I would never attempt to gain new experiences solo, or increase my knowledge solo.

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Originally Posted by DeepIsBliss

When I solo dive it is main line only and only in cave systems I am very familiar with.

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That's very much like my situation, except maybe one very familiar jump.

I dont have a problem solo diving with the proper equipment at hand. That would be IMO a sidemount configuration with 2 spg's. No pesky isolator which is a weak point in the backmount setup. 2 masks, 2 computers, 4 lights, 2 safety reels, another buddy bottle and reg, not to even be used unless its an emergency. 2 knives and a wing inflator hose on each tank for wing and drysuit or 1 for each bladder on a dual wing. Still no redundant brain but with steady nerves and a totally relaxed heartrate, I say why not.

I've always had the mind set that every dive I've ever made was solo, even when training. I wouldn't encourage solo cave diving to anyone who wasn't solid in their skills past full cave. I would encourage someone to be open to constructive criticism from their instructor and team members. Building experience with a team also helps you see things with them that might need attention, every dive is a learning experience. I enjoy solo diving and I enjoy diving with my buddy. Seems like there's a time and place for it all. I was putting away my gear one afternoon when I overheard a student flipping out on his instructor when he wouldn't pass him. The instructor told him he needed to spend some more time working on his skills then he got in his truck and drove off. The student looked over at me and yelled what the f***! I told him that guy just saved your life, do what he says. [Some of the best cave divers and instructors in the world are on this forum. I'm grateful for each and every one of you.]

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Originally Posted by B-Bob

Asking for your thoughts. Do think it is OK to solo dive using the rule of thirds and carrying a Pony with a capacity of at least 1/3rd of your gas supply. In this case if you had a catastrophe failure at your deepest penetration you would still have enough gas to get out.
I'm not talking about exploration diving here just trying to get experience towards Full Cave. If you feel thats acceptable were can you make the dives? I know the state parks prohibit Solo diving. If you think Solo diving is not acceptable I would like to hear from you also.

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If you're not full cave trained, you'd be diving above you training level. Instead of seeking proper training you are looking for instruction or guidance on here.

I cannot recommend you attempt solo diving until you are fully trained as a cave diver. There is a buddy section on here and utilizing it will allow you to dive with others more safely. There's no reason to push your training, please don't. Plenty of people looking for buddies out there.

There are no issues that cannot be planned and handled either solo or team diving. The issue is experience that comes from diving. If you are attempting to get experience by solo diving then that is a potential problem. And the gas you need for an Oh Sh*t Exit may not be there in either a team exit or a solo exit if all you plan is a third in reserve based on a penetration during ideal conditions. Plenty to read about that on here.

+1 for trolling for buddies...seems to me that people looking to dive at an entry level (limited penetration/back gas only) are fairly plentiful. All you need to do is show up at a site on the right day or post a "buddy wanted" thread somewhere.

By the way, I solo dive regularly and enjoy it...and have no pre-disposition against it. FWIW

Have fun.

A previous post stated that solo diving can create bad habits prior to proper training. This very true and I speak from experience. I was very used to diving solo and not paying much attention to my buddy/buddies during a dive. When I started to do some deeper tech dives with some new buddies, well lets just say I got an earful a couple of times after I disappeared during a dive. Fortunately these guys didn't give up on me and they ended up teaching me a lot of the importantance of buddies and being a proper buddy myself.

Later on in life when I did my cave training this new found buddy skill proved to be invaluable and an actual necessity for the class. I still solo dive frequently and am comfortable doing so, but if I have a buddy with me then things have to go back to being a buddy rather than solo.

Not being full cave trained, I'd also recommend against it. A large part of what I'm evaluating my full cave students on is situational and team awareness. You are likely to lose the team awareness if you do a lot of solo dives.

As for gas management, 1/3s is not enough when solo diving. I do a lot of solo dives, for various reasons. I never dive 1/3s when solo diving, even when I bring a buddy bottle. You would likely know 1/3s is not enough if you had more cave diving experience.

If you think solo diving in the overhead is dangerous, it is and you shouldn't do it.....

I find a lot of people will ask questions about something to try and justify their reason(s) to do it, please refer back to my previous statement.

Safe diving,

Rich

P.S. Just read some previous posts and if you're not Full cave certified this is a silly question, you don't know what you don't know...

I want to thank each and everyone of you for your very informative replys. I truley expected to get beat up pretty bad but your responses have seem to come from true experince and a conceren for the well being of a fellow diver.
To ease your fears I'm not new to diving only to Cave diving. If you go back and look at all the Post you will see the experience level of the responders is quite high. This is great for us needing your guidance. However, you have had years to cultivate a ring of Buddies to dive with and forget how difficult it is for the ones under full cave find a competent person to fill that roll. Several have mentioned finding buddies on this form. You try it, I have and so for have only gotten one response and it has'nt produced yet.( although it is looking like it might).
Point being it's not that easy. I was even willing to pay a Instructor just to get me in the water but the cost was considerably high. I had to rethink that one.
I know solo is not the ideal way to get Dives but I have many solo open water/wreck dives. All with proper back up gear and I also know I've been with some Buddies who put me in more danger than being Solo.
If any of you get a wild hair and want to dive with a Intro Guy let me know. Especially during the week. ( High Springs/ Luraville area)

Bob, I haven't met a single cave diver who isn't willing to dive down to any level once in a while. There was just a thread within the past few weeks (I think it was titled Intro Divers) with tons of cavern and intro level divers (and full cave divers) who would be great to contact.

I know a few people who "dive solo because they can't find a buddy". Find each other already! Lol. It isn't worth getting killed over, especially when you can easily meet buddies on here, at dive sites, or hanging out at one of the shops.

I dive solo about 50% of the time, because I want too. I have some great dive buddies but I like to slowly wander the caves and have found some of the coolest features doing so. I will do jumps and scooter but I never dive thirds, even with a buddy. I just dont think that's conservative enough when things get real bad. Bob many of us will dive levels below Full cave. If I ever get to where I wont do cavern or intro dives then its time for me to quit cave diving.

B-bob: I just got my Intro Cave in May, and this board was full of divers (with 2 r's, 2f's, pale red arrows) who were happy to offer a rookie Intro diver a partner. I have been open water solo diving (same-ocean, same-day partners) for over a decade. But here in caves, there always is someone willing to spend a morning showing a rookie around his/her favorite cave. All you have to do, is ask.

Send me a PM. Give me a couple day's notice, and i'll dive with you.
Figure you are probably safer than diving with future x -wife. ( I hope )

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Originally Posted by gschaut

... and this board was full of divers (with 2 r's, 2f's, pale red arrows)...

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:rollguy

Marci (babyduck) and I are normally willing to devote a day of a 5 or 7 day trip to diving with a an intro level diver at their level, and we've found we can usually introduce them to new intro level line they have not seen before. Feel free to send us a PM to coordinate a day on our next trip.

Prior to Marci, I had reservations with insta-buddies. Even now, Marci and I as a solid, well coordinated team, scale back our dives any time we dive with a third team memeber and in particular with a team mate who is an unknown quantity.

Based on risks imposed by less than stellar tema mates, in my technical diving prior to Marci, I tended to:

a) regard every dive as a solo dive - which is I think a sound practice for any technical diving to the extent that you carry your own bailout gas and regard yourself as having a 100% redundant self rescue capability, with the assets a team mate brings as being "extra", and

b) preferred solo diving in some of the more challenging penetration dives, in particular those where a less than wonderfully skilled team mate could potentially cause problems and "plug" the passage behind you.

There are pros and cons - you lose the redundant brain, but you also lose the neccessity of having to communicate with the redundant brain and that adds a lot more flexibility and the ability to immediately ammend the dive plan if the conditions are not as expected or exceed your comfort level.

In any event solo diving requires diving within your comfort level and it is not a good choice for method to conduct a pinnacle dive in your career.

And, I agree that solo cave diving is not a great idea at the less than full cave level.

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Originally Posted by gschaut

I just got my Intro Cave in May

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...Gary?

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Originally Posted by pink arrows

...Gary?

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Yep. Sorry we never hooked up. But you did offer, and I appreciate that. Will be back in the area in November, and I will stay in touch.

Solo diving is a great and rewarding experience. Those that dive solo in caves understand what I mean. It allows you to dive at your own pace and look around and check out things that you might not normally look at. There are a lot of features and interesting areas in the first 1000 feet of a lot of sytems that teams typically blow past on the way in or out. I find it very relaxing and a great way to warm-up if I have not been diving in a while. It allows me to take my time gearing and configuring, entering, going at my pace and maybe refreshing some line skills or trying a slightly different gear config or light mounting. It gets me 'tuned' and makes sure I have no gear issues that could hamper or call a dive with buddies. But not having a buddy really heightens my awareness of the cave and my gear. I find myself monitoring my surroundings and my situation just that much more when I don't have a buddy to rely on. That being said, for warm-up dives I typically stick to caves I know well and can exit easily and I dive SM.

For your experience level you should stick to the ballroom or some other cavern area with no temptation to do any penetration. Without you being full cave with a lot of experience there is no reason for you to be diving a cave solo.

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Originally Posted by Jay

There are a lot of features and interesting areas in the first 1000 feet of a lot of sytems that teams typically blow past on the way in or out.

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+1 on that!
I once made a 2 hr dive and never got to the lips, and there was a 1.5 hour dive just past the sign at JB. Lots of good stuff we normally blow past.

Just saw this thread. After some recent discussions I have become a bit concerned about liability issues involved in accepting a buddy relationship. Not being a lawyer and not having read any case law i am wondering about the risk of buddy diving. Maybe solo is the better way to go from a legal point of view. Anyone have any insights about this? Bill

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Originally Posted by wingman

... Maybe solo is the better way to go from a legal point of view... Bill

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I for one don't want to have my diving practices dictated by a lawyer!

I choose to dive with a buddy because I prefer it that way. If I or my buddy makes a mistake we will live or die based on how we deal with that mistake. I can think of two particular instances in my cave diving where the team I was on went down the wrong passage, or went the wrong way in the right passage. In one case my buddy was in the lead, and I pointed out the error. In the other instance our roles were reversed. In both cases I was glad to be diving as part of a thinking team of divers, each instance was pointed out and resolved within seconds of the error. Solo wouldn't have resolved the problem, and neither would a lawyer.

Mark Vlahos

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Originally Posted by Mark Vlahos

I for one don't want to have my diving practices dictated by a lawyer!

I choose to dive with a buddy because I prefer it that way. If I or my buddy makes a mistake we will live or die based on how we deal with that mistake. I can think of two particular instances in my cave diving where the team I was on went down the wrong passage, or went the wrong way in the right passage. In one case my buddy was in the lead, and I pointed out the error. In the other instance our roles were reversed. In both cases I was glad to be diving as part of a thinking team of divers, each instance was pointed out and resolved within seconds of the error. Solo wouldn't have resolved the problem, and neither would a lawyer.Mark Vlahos

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We all have our preferences....it's the courts and existing case law that i am concerned with....like it or not you accept a duty to another everytime you enter into a buddy agreement and it is not your buddy that you would deal with in the aftermath. I do not have a good understanding of these issues and was hoping that others here might. Bill

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Originally Posted by Mark Vlahos

I for one don't want to have my diving practices dictated by a lawyer!


Mark Vlahos

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They are, whether you know it or not.

There are few exceptions. One would be diving offshore, alone, off your own boat. And I am sure even then the "right" attorney could still make your life hell for a year or two....:roll:

Whenever I cave dive solo my lawyer makes me text her after I suit up and then again after I get out of the water.

Check out what happened in the Key's this past weekend, as an example.

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Originally Posted by Shocky

Check out what happened in the Key's this past weekend, as an example.

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???

diver and buddy drowned...... sad

the news article says diver couldnt drop his wieghts.... seems like there has to be bit more to it. 3 divers in the water and not one or both could pull him and his weights to the surface?

or the hooka incident off east coast where diver drowned in 25 fsw and was brought to shore by lifeguards on the beach.

In grief, family's want to place blame. Last on the list is the victim!

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Originally Posted by Slüdge

Whenever I cave dive solo my lawyer makes me text her after I suit up and then again after I get out of the water.

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So does my doctor......

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Originally Posted by Marc Bryan

So does my doctor......

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I take a nurse practitioner along on the dive - just in case...

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Originally Posted by Marc Bryan

So does my doctor......

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so does my biomedical engineer/future dentist...?

My wife actually encourages solo diving. Want's me to learn to skydiving and base jumping. What a gal!

Let me guess, Your life insurance is paid in full.

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Originally Posted by guau

Let me guess, Your life insurance is paid in full.

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:smt081

Hello, i'm new here and my English not very good... I'm Belgian cave diver, solo of course.
If i 'use a third bottle, thit have the half volume of my first gas source (2 separate bottle). I dive on the 1/3 on all bottels.

Conservative thirds on back gas and carry a full stage (Buddy is "AL80") which does not get touched unless things go very wrong. AL is not there to give you more distance in the cave, he's there to get you out when you need him most. I've not had to use AL as of yet. Sidemount is different - you have two completely independent sources of gas, some folks put an "H" valve on one cylinder, makes sense, gives you an extra reg when you might need it most.

Finish your full cave, dive a bit, stay conservative.

Mark

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Originally Posted by mfascuba

Conservative thirds on back gas and carry a full stage (Buddy is "AL80") which does not get touched unless things go very wrong. AL is not there to give you more distance in the cave, he's there to get you out when you need him most. I've not had to use AL as of yet. Sidemount is different - you have two completely independent sources of gas, some folks put an "H" valve on one cylinder, makes sense, gives you an extra reg when you might need it most.

Finish your full cave, dive a bit, stay conservative.

Mark

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:clapper

I full cave dive solo on occasion for one reason...I could find myself alone at any time (and have), even though I entered with a buddy. I enjoy the company and believe in the redundant brain, but I think it important to know I can take care of myself and feel comfortable doing it, a non-issue if you will...and I love to drink a beer afterward (for hydration purposes only!), even if we do get separated. No issues, but plenty of critique if there were problems.

Some of my most memorable cave dives have been solo. Take every dive is a learning experience, some teach you much more than others...and I echo - stay conservative, because it actually can, save your life.

I occ dive solo. Nothing real adventurous. I don't dive to 1/3s and I dive SM. Recently I did a solo DPV dive at Ginnie. I turned at 1000' which is what I had planned on. I had plenty of gas. I had done a bubble check before I took off.
Noticed no bubbles. Wel,l when I got back to the stairs I noticed some heavy bubbling. I found my second stage/reg was almost unscrewed from the first stage! I won't go into all the would of, should of, could of's.
Point is, it made me rethink a few things. From now on, if I dive solo, "AL" will be with me.

CDG has been training for solo diving since its inception (1947) this is more about a diving style to suit the environment to be dived than a lack of mates to dive with

Andrew