Mistakes I've made.

This weekend was my first cave diving trip post intro certification... and I made a few little mistakes. I have been kicking around the idea of posting about them for two days now. The idea here is to get a thread going about all the little mistakes we all have made at one time or another, so that I don't have to make them myself to learn better.

My mistakes:
1) Used too short of a spool trying to tie in to the mainline in OG. Grabbed my short spool rather than my long. Luckily my buddy had more, but the first one my buddy grabbed wasn't long enough so we had to run a third (end to end to end). The third one would have been long enough to make the entire run, but we only use about 10' of it.

2) Followed to cave and not the line. Ended up off the line in OG when around p800 the line goes off to the right and up through a really cool crack. The cave continues around without line and rejoins the line a short run later. My buddy notified me of my mistake a few feet past the crack.

3) Got up off the line to check out a dome around p400 on the OG line, spun around a bit checking it all out and I ascended. Got back down to the line and realized I lost me sense of in/out. Worst case here I would have traveled <100' in the wrong direction. The dome is actually JUST past the 400' arrow, and it was within sight by the time I descended back on to the line.

4) Ran my line through a line trap, while I was preoccupied with the 3 spool ****-up getting in to OG. Luckily my buddy caught it, and wrapped the line appropriately, then informed me of my mistake on our exit.

Lessons learned:
1) Bring more spools/reels. I had my 2 spools, but I neglected to bring a reel to tie in to the OG line. The next dive in OG I had a 400' reel for that job.

2) Pay attention! (DUH) ... the line doesn't always follow the cave.

3) Pay attention! Or simple drop a line arrow before poking around. This was not a situation where I was ever going to be out of sight of the line, so I don't know if a spool would make any sense here, but an arrow would have been nice.

4) Pay attention! This was a situation where I had my attention on looking like a retard running 3 spools in to OG, and not on running the line appropriately.

All these mistakes were made on 2 out of 8 dives this weekend. For some reason they all happened to be in OG, which is the cave I have the most dives in, by far(about 6 now).

We all make mistakes and as long as their little ones, they can be learning experiences. Lets see, that same dive I didnt have my big primary because my buddy from the week before still had it. I knew how far it was to the sign in there and I always grab my spools with my left hand so keeping my longest orange lined spool to the left will allow me to grab it first next time. I got in the water geared up and had to have Gisselle retreive my fins from the truck.Dah! Then at the end of the dive I lost my wet notes, after the safetystop. Didnt zip my chestpouch back up being that close and they still jumped out. Jason and Rich got em for me so their safely topside. Oh I didnt have any money to pay the admission to Peacock, only a debit card, so I waited till I got caught, which I never did. My main buddy has a family pass but he was at the Daytona 400. I dont remember the dome incident but made sure I could see your light after rounding any corners. Your the third one Ive dove with that missed the cut thru the fissure at zigzag, it end up back at the line but its real silty down there.

It can happen to the best of us. I have had the same problem at upper OG too. I have even scootered into a tunnel that was went straight, and was the same size as the one with the line, but the line made a hard turn there. You are right, you have to pay more attention.

You might consider making this an IRAP, since it could have been a big issue if you silted out that bypass.

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Originally Posted by Greenwood_60

3) Got up off the line to check out a dome around p400 on the OG line, spun around a bit checking it all out and I ascended. Got back down to the line and realized I lost me sense of in/out. Worst case here I would have traveled <100' in the wrong direction. The dome is actually JUST past the 400' arrow, and it was within sight by the time I descended back on to the line.

3) Pay attention! Or simple drop a line arrow before poking around. This was not a situation where I was ever going to be out of sight of the line, so I don't know if a spool would make any sense here, but an arrow would have been nice.

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May seem excessive,but running a reel will handle any disorientation. Domes can be areas with silt on ledges or fissures with material that will percolate out,so you could be returning to the line in a silt out,and then doing a lost line search. I have seen the most veteran of cave divers go off to look at something,and come back and be disoriented as to direction of travel. Murphy is always looking for an opportunity to strike,and taking extra caution keeps him from striking,or at least turning an emergency into an inconvenience.

I tell my students that we have a dollar bills worth of attention. We can divide it up however we want but only have a dollars worth. As a new diver to a specific level of diving the new tasks and skills suck up the majority of our dollars worth of attention. The important thing is to know that you are spending more of that attention on basic stuff and to work on keeping the dive as simple as possible.

Interestingly one of my tougher lessons was learned in OG as well. I was off the line a bit "poking around" and stirred up a little silt resulting in lost orientation. I opted to deploy my safety while finding the main line. After finding a rock I tied off and began my search when the line quickly was cut from the sharp rock I had tied off on. This was not the best time to find out that the normal way of tying a bowlin knot (around the tree and through the hole) does not work well under water and under pressure. After an ugly way of securing the line I did find the main line and the direction out. The next dive I retrieved my safety then figured out how to do what I call a one handed bowlin that is easy to do under water.

Glad that your dives were nothing more than good learning experiences.

Bobby

I was told once "experience comes from mistakes that you manage to live through." I don't remember who I heard that from or where I read it, but it's stuck with me.

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Originally Posted by Line Squirrel

I was told once "experience comes from mistakes that you manage to live through." I don't remember who I heard that from or where I read it, but it's stuck with me.

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A pilot buddy says, "Good judgment comes from experience. Experience comes from bad judgment!" and "The superior pilot uses his superior judgment to avoid situations where he might have to use his superior skills." I've often thought both of these apply to diving as well.

Greenwood_60, the most important thing here is that you're realizing your mistakes, thinking about them, and determining to avoid them in the future. That indicates that you've got the most important (and most difficult to teach those that don't have it) attribute - the right attitude.

Mike

Thanks for the post Greenwood_60, I've not met many divers who are willing to admit they ever make mistakes!

Recently, I was diving Little River with a very experienced buddy, both of us have numerous dives there together and know the system very well. We were exiting the system on the merry go round, after a trip to the well casing. Just before the last/first T I decided to run through the screens on my Predator. Checking my ppo2's, GF%, cell mv's, TTS, etc......this takes about 10 seconds. While doing this, I swam right past the T to the left heading towards the exit. Never even saw it. It just so happened that at that exact moment, my buddy decided to check his gas pressures in his SM tanks, and then look up his stop table on his X1. He also swam right by it. Of course I quickly noticed the change in flow, but it just didnt make sense. We then ran into an arrow pointing in the opposite direction of our travel. At this point we both realized what happened, and turned around.

No harm, no foul.......this time. We had plenty of gas, and the excursion the wrong direction only took two minutes. However, if we already had an issue to handle (OOG, equipment failure, medical, etc...) this slight inconvenience could have been the catalyst for disaster.

Yours were very minor mistakes, I was hoping to read about more significant mistakes like:

1 - Marrying a transsexual Satan worshiper
2 - Penile piercing
3 - Tattoo of Rosanne Barr on your left buttock
4 - Quitting your job to become a street performer
5 - Opening a dive shop

Hell, now those would be real mistakes.

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Originally Posted by stairman

I got in the water geared up and had to have Gisselle retreive my fins from the truck.Dah!

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We went back the next day to dive OG again, and we were tying off in OW when we Giselle signaled "light" to me... we both forgot our primaries! Back to the surface, humped it back up the hill in my 104s to grab our lights... Got my heart pumping a bit. I should have chilled out for a bit at the surface before starting the dive. I sucked my 6th down in record time.

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Originally Posted by stairman

I dont remember the dome incident...

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The dome incident was on the dive the next day with Giselle... same dive we found your wet notes on.

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Originally Posted by FW

You might consider making this an IRAP, since it could have been a big issue if you silted out that bypass.

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I can do that. I wonder though, if there is a better way to run that line to that it's obvious when it disappears in to the crack. Maybe anchor it to a lead weight in the middle of the passage, then make a hard right turn with the line.

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Originally Posted by Kelly Jessop

May seem excessive,but running a reel will handle any disorientation. Domes can be areas with silt on ledges or fissures with material that will percolate out,so you could be returning to the line in a silt out,and then doing a lost line search. I have seen the most veteran of cave divers go off to look at something,and come back and be disoriented as to direction of travel. Murphy is always looking for an opportunity to strike,and taking extra caution keeps him from striking,or at least turning an emergency into an inconvenience.

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You're right. It does seem excessive, but I can see your point. There was definitely more silt up in that dome. If you look at the PI map, right where the Lower Lower OG circuit crosses under the OG line for the last time, there is a dome indicated on the map. That is where this occurred.

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Originally Posted by Bobby

I tell my students that we have a dollar bills worth of attention.

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That day I felt like a had $.05 worth. I know the technique you are talking about with the one-handed bowline... I should practice that in the water. Even on land I have to think about it.

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Originally Posted by Line Squirrel

I was told once "experience comes from mistakes that you manage to live through." I don't remember who I heard that from or where I read it, but it's stuck with me.

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I like that one... after dives like these it is more reassuring than "If at first you don't succeed, Cave Diving is not for you."

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Originally Posted by MORGAN

A pilot buddy says, "Good judgment comes from experience. Experience comes from bad judgment!" and "The superior pilot uses his superior judgment to avoid situations where he might have to use his superior skills." I've often thought both of these apply to diving as well.

Greenwood_60, the most important thing here is that you're realizing your mistakes, thinking about them, and determining to avoid them in the future. That indicates that you've got the most important (and most difficult to teach those that don't have it) attribute - the right attitude.

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I like your pilot buddy... my pilot brother's only quote with regards to me cave diving has been "you know you're a ******* idiot?"

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Originally Posted by Greenwood_60

...I can do that. I wonder though, if there is a better way to run that line to that it's obvious when it disappears in to the crack. Maybe anchor it to a lead weight in the middle of the passage, then make a hard right turn with the line...

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That is why all those lose rocks are along the passage, so you can anchor the line away from the cracks.

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Originally Posted by FW

That is why all those lose rocks are along the passage, so you can anchor the line away from the cracks.

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I think you are talking about the unlined passage at the beginning of OG. I am talking about that crack where I got off line around p800.

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Originally Posted by Greenwood_60

I think you are talking about the unlined passage at the beginning of OG. I am talking about that crack where I got off line around p800.

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Yep, I was talking about the line traps at the entrance. Send a PM to Jim Wyatt. He is on the Peacock line committee.

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Originally Posted by FW

Yep, I was talking about the line traps at the entrance. Send a PM to Jim Wyatt. He is on the Peacock line committee.

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Will do.

I love the rift, and the bypass. I don't recall the bypass being long, tight or very silty, and it can be easier to slip through in SM with a camera if you want to catch a photo of your buddy coming through the rift. But, you have to be aware of what you are doing. Lots of caves have those short bypasses (right of the keyhole, left of the cornflakes, is another nifty one, at Ginnie) but if you aren't aware you are in unlined tunnel it can be a mess.

"Line. Light. Cave."
"Slow is smooth, smooth is fast."

You want me to list all my mistakes? Sorry, but the CDF doesn't have enough server space.

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Originally Posted by Greenwood_60

My mistakes:
1) Used too short of a spool trying to tie in to the mainline in OG. Grabbed my short spool rather than my long. Luckily my buddy had more, but the first one my buddy grabbed wasn't long enough so we had to run a third (end to end to end). The third one would have been long enough to make the entire run, but we only use about 10' of it.

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I just want to clarify something here. Did you use your safeties to continue onto the permanent line or did you have additional spools with you?

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2) Followed to cave and not the line. Ended up off the line in OG when around p800 the line goes off to the right and up through a really cool crack. The cave continues around without line and rejoins the line a short run later. My buddy notified me of my mistake a few feet past the crack.

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I have done this. Actually, both me and my buddy missed the turn. We both happened to be looking around and kept swimming straight. Next thing I know, I look down to reference the line and not only is it on the other wall, but it's white! Quick signal and turn around and we were back on the main line heading toward Challenge again. I'm not really sure what can be done to make that turn more obvious there. For our incident, even if it had been in the middle of the passage, we probably would have missed the turn because we both happened to be looking around the passage rather than referencing the line at the exact same time. The only way to avoid it is to not take your eyes off the line, but you don't see much of anything that way!


Beyond your level of training at this point, but I've also not marked Ts because there was already an arrow or 2 at the intersection that pointed in my exit direction. Came back on the same T from another direction (made a circuit), but was only about 90% sure it was the same T. I don't like not being 100% sure. Now all Ts get marked regardless of what markings they have on them. I also drop a marker every 3-4 minutes if I haven't seen a marker in that time (this is on white line only). The first few times I didn't do that the uncertainty of whether I was on the right line or had inadvertently "jumped" to another line (like in OG) wasn't a great feeling. It's a simple thing that takes no time at all (I use clothes pins) and gives me warm fuzzies when I'm on the exit side of the dive, especially if I'm in zero vis at that point!


Great thread!

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Originally Posted by Slüdge

You want me to list all my mistakes? Sorry, but the CDF doesn't have enough server space.

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Well, just start with the acquisition of purple gear and go from there.

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Originally Posted by RN

I just want to clarify something here. Did you use your safeties to continue onto the permanent line or did you have additional spools with you?

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I had two spools on me. I used one to tie off in OW. My buddy offered up the 2nd and 3rd spool/reel. I know to always keep that one safety spool for an emergency... and have recently decided to keep two on me. As I am getting more comfortable in my rig, and am adding things like a REAL reel. At first I figured we were better off with the bare minimum, while we gained the muscle memory needed for efficiently accessing all the storage locations.

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Originally Posted by RN

I have done this. Actually, both me and my buddy missed the turn. We both happened to be looking around and kept swimming straight. Next thing I know, I look down to reference the line and not only is it on the other wall, but it's white! Quick signal and turn around and we were back on the main line heading toward Challenge again. I'm not really sure what can be done to make that turn more obvious there. For our incident, even if it had been in the middle of the passage, we probably would have missed the turn because we both happened to be looking around the passage rather than referencing the line at the exact same time. The only way to avoid it is to not take your eyes off the line, but you don't see much of anything that way!

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I didn't get far enough in to see the white line. But I did manage to silt the place up a bit doing a 180'. We turned the dive within the next 100' (don't think we saw the 900' arrow), and had to get on the line to work back through my silt. For some reason, I was really excited to be on the line in <5' vis. I though it was really cool.

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Originally Posted by RN

Beyond your level of training at this point, but I've also not marked Ts because there was already an arrow or 2 at the intersection that pointed in my exit direction. Came back on the same T from another direction (made a circuit), but was only about 90% sure it was the same T. I don't like not being 100% sure. Now all Ts get marked regardless of what markings they have on them. I also drop a marker every 3-4 minutes if I haven't seen a marker in that time (this is on white line only). The first few times I didn't do that the uncertainty of whether I was on the right line or had inadvertently "jumped" to another line (like in OG) wasn't a great feeling. It's a simple thing that takes no time at all (I use clothes pins) and gives me warm fuzzies when I'm on the exit side of the dive, especially if I'm in zero vis at that point!

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I see. Looking back down on that line and realizing I didn't know which was was out was not fun. Made me realize a few things. It would be very easy to distrust the line arrows. The cave looks totally and completely different on the way out, so pay attention to unique details on the floor as they are the easiest details to recognize on the way out when direction is in question. Zip Ties on permanent line arrows are AWESOME! Between the Zip Tie and the patina on the arrows, I knew to trust them.

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Originally Posted by RN

Great thread!

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Thanks. I sat for a few minutes looking at the "post" button after writing it all up. My imagination got the best of me thinking about what the reactions would be to it.

Another really cool thread: http://www.cavediver.net/forum/showt...-cave-Training

I've done the "run out of spool thing", too! The first time, I went to pull out my safety spool, and my buddy looked at it and shook his head -- and I realized that was stupid. None of us had a spare spool (this was when we were Cave 1, and the primary reel had proven about ten feet too short) so we ended up cutting a little line off a spool and finishing the tie-in :)

I've made a ton of small mistakes, and will probably continue to make them -- sometimes, you make mistakes because you simply haven't encountered the question before, and sometimes the cave is teaching you that you need to be more attentive or more careful.

I WAS taught that, if you leave the line to go up and look at the top of a dome, or to surface in an air dome, you should tie off a spool to the line, with a marker to indicate your exit direction. I have violated that, for example when diving Hole in the Wall, where we went up into the domes and then back down under the duck-unders, but we were always swimming and maintaining body orientation (which is probably not a good excuse for getting that far off the line, actually). But if I'm going to surface, or stop, it's too easy to lose orientation, so I tie in and mark.

I don't think it pays off to be stingy with safety gear. Although I don't load my pockets with all the spools they can hold, I do always add one or two to the total number of spools we've calculated we'll need for the dive. Just makes life easier -- if nothing else, you may find a side passage you want to have a brief look at!

One of the first times I surfaced in Olsen, I was heading back to P1 and went the wrong way towards Challenge. I got to where I would pin the line at my safetystop and pick it back up heading back. I didnt go far though, the cave past Olsen is way different and really nice past Peanut restriction to Challenge. Jason, I didnt realize you got my wetnotes, for some reason your first name didnt register. Ill be back down this weekend and pick em up at CEW. Thanks.

My buddy and I were diving at JB last Friday morning. On the way out, we decided to explore the cavern and burn up our 32% because we were going to dive "god's mix" on the Oriskany on Sunday. He went over the hump about 100' from the entrance while I stayed withing sight of him and the main line. It looked interesting, so I decided to tie in a reel and go explore that same area. After letting out 12" of line to loop the reel into the main line, I dropped the reel. It went down a crack too small to retrieve, but I could just see it. My buddy swam back up about this time and we swam around the rock pile and looked back in to the spot where I dropped the reel. There it was about 20' away. Unfortunately, it would be a no-mount effort to retrieve the reel, so I left it. We told Edd about it later and he said he'd see if he could get find/retrieve it. Don't know if he ever found it, but I should call him and ask.

Now the good news. While diving the Oriskany on Sunday, I found a DR reel about the size of the one I lost on Friday. It had been on the wreck for at least a year, based on the marine growth living on it. I should be able to clean it up and get it working.

Lesson learned: 1)make sure you have a good purchase on the reel before tying in. 2) sometimes it's better to be lucky than good...

So where is this reel in jb? I'll be diving there later this week. If I can get it ill just send it back to you

Sent from my Eris

It's about 25' from the last tie-off in the cavern (before the main line takes a right and drops down), directly below the line. If you swim toward the entrance 10-15', you can drop down and point your light parallel to the line (looking into the cave) and see it back in there. You might be able to wiggle in there with one SM tank, but I don't think you could do it with two. There was no chance of me getting in there with BM doubles.

Having said this, I don't won't anyone sticking their neck out for my reel. It's not worth anyone getting hurt/stuck or otherwise. The reel is an old homemade job that's 20+ years old.

Not sure where your talking about but ill take a look. I think I saw a double ender about the same place. If its too tight I won't try

Sent from my Eris

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Originally Posted by Marc Bryan

I swam right past the T to the left heading towards the exit. Never even saw it. .... He also swam right by it. Of course I quickly noticed the change in flow, but it just didnt make sense. We then ran into an arrow pointing in the opposite direction of our travel. At this point we both realized what happened, and turned around.

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I can pretty safely say you're not the only one that has ever done that...:smt102

Of course a little gap reel or a cookie....

It was cookied. The line kinda ducks down at that point and we just missed it. Not to mention a big ass metal arrow....:-)

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Originally Posted by Greenwood_60

I had two spools on me. I used one to tie off in OW. My buddy offered up the 2nd and 3rd spool/reel. I know to always keep that one safety spool for an emergency... and have recently decided to keep two on me. As I am getting more comfortable in my rig, and am adding things like a REAL reel. At first I figured we were better off with the bare minimum, while we gained the muscle memory needed for efficiently accessing all the storage locations.

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II always carry 2 safeties and require my students do the same. I've seen students rats nest reels and drop tthem during lost line drills. Besides, if you use one during the dive and have to leave it in the cave then you're without a safety during the rest of your exit.

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I didn't get far enough in to see the white line. But I did manage to silt the place up a bit doing a 180'. We turned the dive within the next 100' (don't think we saw the 900' arrow), and had to get on the line to work back through my silt. For some reason, I was really excited to be on the line in <5' vis. I though it was really cool.

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Zero vis can be very relaxing.

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I see. Looking back down on that line and realizing I didn't know which was was out was not fun. Made me realize a few things. It would be very easy to distrust the line arrows.

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Especially in a passage like P1 to Olsen where they constantly change direction!

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The cave looks totally and completely different on the way out...

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Yes it does. Which is why I always take my time exiting. I don't delay it and ttake longer than penetration time, but I do learn the cave on the way out. In the caves I regularly dive, I could get out from most passages even if the line suddenly disintegrated as long as the visibility held up.

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Originally Posted by LCF

I've done the "run out of spool thing", too! The first time, I went to pull out my safety spool, and my buddy looked at it and shook his head --and I realized that was stupid.

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I had a buddy do that once. Not only did I stop that immediately as I pulled out a spare jump spool, we also had a talk about it after the dive. And I'm sure those aren't the only 2 times that's happened.

Having 2 safetys is a good idea. I like the big spools with orange line but others believe a reel with turner handle gives a beter grip. Birdnesting is only a minor inconvienence where you then have to wrap the whole reel with the line but if it comes back off can be hazardous for sure.

Unless it's bird nested on deployment and you cannot reel it out. I've seen that happen a few times.

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Originally Posted by RN

Especially in a passage like P1 to Olsen where they constantly change direction!



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Rob,unsure of what you mean here. In the 16 years I have been cave diving Peacock the line arrows in this passage have only changed twice. Originally there was a gap at Pothole,and when this gap was closed with a continuous line, there were < > line arrows placed between P1 and Olsen to reflect this continuous line. 2 years ago it was felt that indicating that Pothole was an emergency egress was important, so the line arrows were changed to the original configuration when Pothole was a gap. If you are finding line arrows constantly changing directions please let someone know,because this is not only a safety hazard,but a violation of state law punishable as a misdemeanor.

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Originally Posted by RN

Especially in a passage like P1 to Olsen where they constantly change direction!

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What do you mean? The line committee has made one configuration change in that passageway and it was done more than 2 years ago.

There are 3 entrances/exits in relatively close proximity between P1 and Olsen. There are back to back arrows half way between P1 & Pothole, and back to back arrows between Pothole and Olsen. The distance markers in between these sinks are in place in standard fashion.

Nothing has constantly been changing. I dive there frequently, at least monthly and sometimes every week and there are no changes being made constantly. Line committee members monitor the lines, arrows and signs diligently.

If anyone here distrusts the line arrows and/or the configuration of the lines you should immediately contact the members of the line committee. Line committee members names and contact information can be seen at: http://www.northfloridaspringsalliance.org/lines.htm

Jim

I think RN meant they change direction compared to the last arrow you passed. Like every time you get half way to the next opening they "change direction".

Here is the section where I got off line. Start watching at around 11:00. Around 11:30 the go in to the crack where the line runs, and pass the p800 arrow shortly after.

http://uscavedivingteam.com/?p=53

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Originally Posted by Greenwood_60

I think RN meant they change direction compared to the last arrow you passed. Like every time you get half way to the next opening they "change direction".

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Roger that. There was a time that Peacock had some issues with line arrow free lancing,thank god it isn't a problem.

Dang Jason, thats an awesome vid of OG. Thumbs up to the guys who made it.

On my first cave dive after intro I was #3 in a 3 man team in ginnie. We went in the eye and I think we turned just after the cornflakes. On the way out I was in the lead.... just following the gold line... and then the gold line ended??? I was totally confused and couldn't figure out where I was... (obvioulsy I was in the area near the ear). After a few minutes I figured it out... I had swam right past our reel a short ways back (where the passage from the eye come into the gallery) but thought it was someone's jump line (I hadn't taken a good look at my buddie's reel before going in and didn't recognize it).

Learned a couple valuable lessons that day.... Always know what your buddie's reels, spools, cookies, arrows, etc. look like and always take a good look around in all directions whenever you change lines.

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Originally Posted by Greenwood_60

I think RN meant they change direction compared to the last arrow you passed. Like every time you get half way to the next opening they "change direction".

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Yes, thank you. It's been some time since I've been in Peacock, so if someone is changing things I wouldn't be the one to ask. My point was the arrows point 4 different directions in 1400' of passage, so the arrow direction constantly changes, at least relative to other passages. So going off the line and becoming disoriented could result in even more disorientation there.

Speaking of the Olsen line, on one of my first Intro level dives I dropped a cookie on the exit side of double reverse arrows on the way to pot hole. Afterwards my buddy asked me why I did that. I told him it was because my instructor told me I should place a cookie on the exit sides of Ts, double reverse arrows, etc. He told me couldn't recall his instructor mentioning anything about that. We did several more dives along that line and I notice that I was the only one doing this. Why is that? Do people just know that part of cave so well that they don't see a need? After the 3rd or 4th time past that point it did seem a little retentive to place the cookie but I did it anyway.

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Originally Posted by Jaydubya

Speaking of the Olsen line, on one of my first Intro level dives I dropped a cookie on the exit side of double reverse arrows on the way to pot hole. Afterwards my buddy asked me why I did that. I told him it was because my instructor told me I should place a cookie on the exit sides of Ts, double reverse arrows, etc. He told me couldn't recall his instructor mentioning anything about that. We did several more dives along that line and I notice that I was the only one doing this. Why is that? Do people just know that part of cave so well that they don't see a need? After the 3rd or 4th time past that point it did seem a little retentive to place the cookie but I did it anyway.

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It can't possibly hurt, and may be wonderful if you get really confused. On the bright side, either way you go will get you to air, but it would be quite a hike if you had to get out at Olsen, or Challenge.

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Originally Posted by Jaydubya

Speaking of the Olsen line, on one of my first Intro level dives I dropped a cookie on the exit side of double reverse arrows on the way to pot hole. Afterwards my buddy asked me why I did that. I told him it was because my instructor told me I should place a cookie on the exit sides of Ts, double reverse arrows, etc. He told me couldn't recall his instructor mentioning anything about that. We did several more dives along that line and I notice that I was the only one doing this. Why is that? Do people just know that part of cave so well that they don't see a need? After the 3rd or 4th time past that point it did seem a little retentive to place the cookie but I did it anyway.

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I don't mark double reverse arrows. IMO the fact that you swam across half a dozen of them on entry should tip you off to the fact that you're approaching a traverse.

I think it's OK to mark them with a cookie. I never marked these myself neither my instructor said I should but if you don't dive these systems much and you need a reminder of marking the middle and where you came from it's not bad... as long as you don't forget your cookie there! ;)

This is a great thread by the way and I have learned a lot! One of the mistakes I have made recently (there's many but let's just take the most recent one) was at P1, where we were planning to do a nice single stage dive to poke around at the tunnel towards challenge. There were some unmarked jumps there that I had been looking and they were haunting my dreams so I really wanted to go see that was there.

But this never happened. I was using a stage reg that I had not used for a while and did not remember that I had to turn the adjustment valve to breathe better. So I nicely gave myself a C02 headache just before I dropped the stage (just before the crossover restriction). So I turned the dive a few feet after I dropped the stage because I was not feeling well. I thought I would faint in the cave, I was pretty sure this would be the end.

Then a series of mistakes started: I insisted on picking up the stage, even though I had thumbed the dive and had shown my dive buddy I was not feeling well. I went back to breathing it because I thought I needed my plenty of gas reserves... All ended well when I realized that it is better to breath from my back gas at some point in the dive.

This was great to reconsider our protocol: never argue when you are the hurt diver. We are both a bit hard headed and we dive as independent divers taking care of ourselves, so we usually get a little carried away and do this...:roll:

Another good thing is: think! I was really not thinking when I put this stage reg back in my mouth.

Glad you had a good time Greenwood_60 and you have learned so many things... and of course thank you for sharing these!

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Yours were very minor mistakes, I was hoping to read about more significant mistakes like:

1 - Marrying a transsexual Satan worshiper
2 - Penile piercing
3 - Tattoo of Rosanne Barr on your left buttock
4 - Quitting your job to become a street performer
5 - Opening a dive shop

Hell, now those would be real mistakes.

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Im in trouble...unless the Rosanne tat on the right buttock is ok! :roll:

Forgeting to switch a reg from pre dive is a common mistake, Ive made too on my stage.