Caverns OK for OW CCR Divers

My wife and I just moved from New Jersey to the Gainesville area. We're finally getting sufficiently settled to begin doing some diving. We are CCR divers, but as yet have no cavern or cave certification. I realize that, to many, cavern dives on CCR might seem silly, but at least its a place to get wet.

So the question. What caverns near enough to Gainesville to be considered a day trip and worth the drive are open to us?

We are also interested in non-overhead diving opportunities, of course.

Thanks.

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Art

Ginnie Cavern, Blue Grotto, Devil's Den, Paradise Spring

http://www.caveatlas.com

I suggest Troy Springs State park.

Manatee Springs (Catfish Hotel) and Peacock Springs (Orange Grove) are also nice, but much nicer if you have a cavern cert and can carry a light.

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Originally Posted by Greenwood_60

Manatee Springs (Catfish Hotel) and Peacock Springs (Orange Grove) are also nice, but much nicer if you have a cavern cert and can carry a light.

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Ah, yes. That makes me wonder about restrictions such as this. Do all of the state parks carry a "no lights" restriction for non-cave certified divers?

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Originally Posted by Art Greenberg

Ah, yes. That makes me wonder about restrictions such as this. Do all of the state parks carry a "no lights" restriction for non-cave certified divers?

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Jim Wyatt is absolutely right in suggesting Troy Springs. You cannot bring lights there nor should you venture into any area where lights are required.

yes

OW are not allowed to carry lights, and some there not allowed to dive at all, such as Peacock Springs P1

http://www.cavediver.net/forum/galle...1/cimg0003.jpg

notice the Sign
This is Catfish at Manatee Springs State Park

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Originally Posted by DeepSea

Ginnie Cavern, Blue Grotto, Devil's Den, Paradise Spring

http://www.caveatlas.com

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Thanks Walter, that's a great resource.

FWIW, Devil's Den does not permit rebreathers.

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Art

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Originally Posted by Art Greenberg

Ah, yes. That makes me wonder about restrictions such as this. Do all of the state parks carry a "no lights" restriction for non-cave certified divers?

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Seems to be if you have to pay good money to dive, they let OW divers bring lights. State parks generally don't, but you only need a cavern cert to bring a light. There are no restrictions on bringing a light in to the head spring at Manatee Springs (Manatee Spring itself), but I challenge you to get far enough in to that cave to even need one.

Here is how I would rank them based on how much I enjoyed them following OW rules (lights where allowed) and taking in to account the price.
Great:
Paradise Spring ($30)
Ginnie Cavern (w/light), Devil's eye, ear, and Little Devil (w/o light) ($30)
Devil's Den ($30)

Good:
Orange Grove ($4)
Troy Springs ($4)
Little River (FREE, nice but doesn't take long to explore the limits of the cavern and get bored)

meh:
Catfish Hotel ($6?)
Blue Grotto ($30)

Orange Grove is probably my favorite cavern on the list, but requires a light to really get to see it.

Even if you never plan to get your cave, do cavern. Opens up some really cool sites (i.e. cavern at Peacock I, Lower Orange Grove cavern zone w/lights, Devil's Ear/Eye caverns with lights), with the added benefit of being safer and more competent.

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Originally Posted by Art Greenberg

FWIW, Devil's Den does not permit rebreathers.

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Where did you get this information? I recently ran in to a diver on a breather in Devil's Den. The only restriction I know of is no doubles, and I am pretty sure it's due to the weight more than anything. I could see them saying "no side-mount", but I can't understand no rebreathers.

Have you been to King Spring at Crystal River, or done the Rainbow River dive? You could easily drive there in the morning and do both. During the winter, I bet the manatees would love to play with a diver who doesn't make scary bubbles.

why don't you just take a cavern course?

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Originally Posted by Art Greenberg

FWIW, Devil's Den does not permit rebreathers.

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Originally Posted by Greenwood_60

Where did you get this information? I recently ran in to a diver on a breather in Devil's Den. The only restriction I know of is no doubles, and I am pretty sure it's due to the weight more than anything. I could see them saying "no side-mount", but I can't understand no rebreathers.

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Its on their website: http://www.devilsden.com/Information.html

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Originally Posted by gulfdiver

why don't you just take a cavern course?

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Possibly later. Might even go for full cave, in time. In the meantime, we want to dive locally.

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Art

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Originally Posted by Al

I bet the manatees would love to play with a diver who doesn't make scary bubbles.

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The manatees I ran into at Ginnie a few years back seemed fascinated with me (on a CCR). They were bumping into me, putting their nose literally right up against my mask. I think they were seeing their reflection in the lens. They were letting me scratch their belly. It was a pretty cool experience.

Art, the best sites that are closest to you will be Troy Spring and Orange Grove sink (part of Peacock Springs SP). They both have pretty significant OW areas (compared to many of the other sites) and only cost $4 per person or you can get an annual pass for $120 (15 trips and it's paid for). Blue Grotto also has a pretty significant OW area but you will pay $40 entrance fee. Paradise Springs, IMO, is not suitable for OW dives. The OW area is very small and then you get into a tube that drops down to over 100' deep. It can be extremely silty. Even though you and Tina have the skills to go through there cleanly, it's still an overhead that can silt out easily. There's also Alexander Spring, for variety, but there isn't much to the basin, there. It would be a day trip to relax and do 2 easy, shallow dives.

Thanks Rob.

The entrance fee at Blue Grotto is high, but it compares very favorably with the charter fee on NJ dive boats. Its reasonably close by and we've been there for training so we have some familiarity with it, so we'll definitely be going there a couple of times this summer. But it will be necessary to dive other places, too. Before we moved we never spent an entire season diving Dutch Springs, and we're not going to fall into that kind of pattern here, either, if its at all avoidable.

Diving with manatees sounds like it could be fun.

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Art

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Originally Posted by RN

Blue Grotto also has a pretty significant OW area but you will pay $40 entrance fee. Paradise Springs, IMO, is not suitable for OW dives. The OW area is very small and then you get into a tube that drops down to over 100' deep.

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I agree with RN to a degree. Although I don't know that I would describe Paradise as a "tube". The smallest part of Paradise Springs is the opening at the surface. The cavern is every bit as big as Blue Grotto, and has considerably more room at the deeper portions. Blue Grotto is EXTREMELY silty, but they put a lot of emphasis on staying out of the silty lower sections, and even have a tour rope that you are supposed to follow. I have dived Blue Grotto twice in 2 years, and consider it one too many times. It is worth doing once. I have been back to Paradise Springs three times in the last year. I really enjoy that place, as long as you have vis. I pretty much only dive Paradise on the week days. I had a buddy the dived there when vis was shot, came back thinking the entire system was a 10' bore hole all the way down to the sign.

I just got off the phone with Rowena at Devil's Den and confirmed no rebreathers. She said "they don't want people staying down that long". Problem is the owners are not divers. Their concern is people staying out of the super silty cave sections. Even with the cave barred off, they have had one death that I know of from someone getting past and exploring. Paradise had one too. Both were not cave trained, in the cave sections. They also wouldn't have liked the single tank side mount dive I did, but it wasn't against the rules per se.

Honestly, If you are interested in caverns or caves at all, just do the cavern course. It opens up a lot of places that are really cool. I wish I would have been able to do it 10 years ago.

IMHO , some overhead environment training as well as some advanced nitrox/deco procedures training if you don't already have that should be in your plans for the near future. It seems to me that a rebreather can easily give you enough rope to hang yourself and the emergency procedures taught in such classes could help you and your wife from becoming statistics. Not trying to worry you, just some food for thought.

If you are up for the adventure, beuford springs is an awesome cavern dive.

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Originally Posted by ffdiver5597

If you are up for the adventure, beuford springs is an awesome cavern dive.

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no one in their right mind would back a breather out to beauford

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Originally Posted by billyf

no one in their right mind would back a breather out to beauford

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Especially with the daily rains we have been getting... I bet the swamp is "prime" right now...

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Originally Posted by billyf

no one in their right mind would back a breather out to beauford

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Why do you say that? Not questioning, just curious. I have heard that about packing doubles in, but that is for weight reasons.

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Originally Posted by billyf

no one in their right mind would back a breather out to beauford

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"an adventure is never fun while it's happening"

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Originally Posted by billyf

no one in their right mind would back a breather out to beauford

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We did! 3:20 run time searched every nook and cranny for any leads (none to be found.) All of 22 minutes deco. You are right about the muck! It is definitely a no-no for the OP who has no overhead training despite the CCR ticket.
/Ken

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Originally Posted by diverdarren

IMHO , some overhead environment training as well as some advanced nitrox/deco procedures training if you don't already have that should be in your plans for the near future. It seems to me that a rebreather can easily give you enough rope to hang yourself and the emergency procedures taught in such classes could help you and your wife from becoming statistics. Not trying to worry you, just some food for thought.

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We're trained through CCR normoxic trimix, and we have some overhead training (wreck penetration). And IMO we're approaching "novice" skill levels with about 100 hours on CCR. We don't have any documented cave specific overhead training.

I am _not_ looking to dive beyond our level of certification. I specifically asked where, within a reasonable driving distance of our new home, open water certified divers can dive without making a certified cave diver's head explode.

We made two nice dives at Blue Grotto today. It's been 5 months since our last dives, and it was a good place to shake off any rust and practice skills. It wasn't necessary to go deeper than 50 feet. And the silt there wasn't all that scary to us.

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Art

Jersey to Gainsville, talk about your culture shock! With a cavern cert you will have alot more places to go and the training for 2 days is well worth it. Youll learn so much and the no lights rule will pertain to others.

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Originally Posted by Art Greenberg

I specifically asked where, within a reasonable driving distance of our new home, open water certified divers can dive without making a certified cave diver's head explode.

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There goes a keyboard.

al

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Originally Posted by stairman

With a cavern cert you will have alot more places to go and the training for 2 days is well worth it. Youll learn so much and the no lights rule will pertain to others.

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OK, let me ask this. Who will teach cavern in CCR? And where can we go with a cavern card and CCR? I am under the impression (and I know I could be wrong) that the only CCR "cave" class is just that - zero to hero on CCR, equivalent to full cave straight through. We're not interested in anything like that. And we need to stay sharp with respect to CCR related skills, so switching to open circuit just so we can do a cavern dive does not make sense.

For now our "real" diving (I'm probably going to get some flak for that) will be reefs and wrecks in South Florida and the Keys. We want to learn about places to go near us between those trips so we can stay active. We wouldn't be very happy being "vacation divers." I don't think that's very compatible with CCR.

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Art

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Originally Posted by Art Greenberg

OK, let me ask this. Who will teach cavern in CCR? And where can we go with a cavern card and CCR? I am under the impression (and I know I could be wrong) that the only CCR "cave" class is just that - zero to hero on CCR, equivalent to full cave straight through. We're not interested in anything like that. And we need to stay sharp with respect to CCR related skills, so switching to open circuit just so we can do a cavern dive does not make sense.

For now our "real" diving (I'm probably going to get some flak for that) will be reefs and wrecks in South Florida and the Keys. We want to learn about places to go near us between those trips so we can stay active. We wouldn't be very happy being "vacation divers." I don't think that's very compatible with CCR.

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Art

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Talk to some CCR cave instructors. I am sure some of them would be willing to work with you. They may have to get a waiver to teach Cavern in CCR, but it can be done.

Here are a few:

Jill Heinerth 340 Cave

High Springs, Florida, USA
CCR Cave, Survey, Stage, Sidemount, DPV
www.IntoThePlanet.com
Paul Heinerth 165 Cave

Hudson, Florida, USA
CCR Cave, Stage, Sidemount, DPV, Sponsor
www.scubawest.net

Lamar Hires 191 Cave

Lake City, Florida, USA
CCR Cave, Sidemount, Stage, Sponsor
www.diverite.com

Hey Art, contact Jill, Paul or Lamar and ask... the worst they can say is no. You WILL have fun.