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i'm planning a stage dive up to woody's room via the peanut tunnel and had a couple of questions. first, are there any preferred or generally accepted places to drop a stage on this route? second, what is the cave like up there? the map makes it look smallish and we will be in back mount. i imagine it to be like the Martz off shoot. any tips or suggestions are appreciated.
Think about who the room is named after, then ask yourself if you really think you're getting there in back mount ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by the dude
thats what i thought, but you can't always tell what the cave is going to be like from the scale on those maps. is it side mount only? if so, i don't want to waste a day of diving to find out. a heads up would be appreciated.
It wasn't until the way back on the dive that we realised the "room" was the part of the dive when we were able to bend our legs up into a modified flutter kick. The rest of the dive you basically have no room for that.
Pretty nasty dive,and unsure of the line conditions in that area. Talk to Bill Rennaker,he did the survey there and has the best info,and stories.
Do not attempt this dive unless you are a very experienced sidemount diver and enjoy sidemount restrictions.
Lee
Your avatar is cool, that is all.
Welcome back.Quote:
Originally Posted by MilFalcon
My buddy and I were going to try that a year or so ago in backmount. We mentioned it to another diver and he said his instructor told him to never go anywhere named "Woody"-anything. We laughed and went anyway. Enjoyable dive and we saw the line, but never followed it. Very, very small.
-Tom
we did this dive today from orange grove. my buddy or i will post a trip report when we have time but here's the short story. we dove stage al 80's to about 1000 ft and dropped them. continuing on bm 108's we made the jump easily. the line is old but in decent condition. some tie offs had popped loose but we replaced them. as the cave narrows down the going gets slow and tedious. some of the restrictions can get dicey but we were able to negotiate them without touching the bottom or the ceiling. my buddy reported the normal silt of following someone in such tight tunnel. the bottom is clay covered in silt that poofs up ahead of you, even at a snails pace. patience is key. i think we made it slightly beyond woodys room, but maybe not. i remember seeing (on the way in) a wide low section of cave with lots of large rocks on my right. the cave gets nasty after that. we stopped when the line went directly into a bank of clay and silt that effectively blocked the tunnel. we past a number of glory markers, the newest one i remember said "m. mcnally." this dive was advanced to say the least, and would most likely be better accomplished in SM. 112 minutes total time. awsome dive, and gary's post above is more than accurate.
Good job on taking everyones advice...
What advice? The crap he got was not advice. Some posters implied advice, much of it was hearsay report and then there were a few of the always unheLpful snarky comments (two of them yours). There was in fact only one post that even suggests the poster had actually done the dive in question. That report was minimal and referred to it as a "nasty dive" with a suggestion to talk to Bill.Quote:
Originally Posted by SuPrBuGmAn
To be fair to the OP, for all we know, the OP did.
For what it's worth the dive the OP described is not what I'd call "nasty", and while it is no doubt easier to do in sidemount, it is also obviously back mountable per the OPs report.
Personally, the advice I'd like to see to these kinds of questions would be comments that let the OP address the questions he or she should be asking before doing a similar dive for the first time such as:
1. Are there areas where I won't be able to turn around or back out and/or will be committed for X number of feet even if it starts getting too tight?
2. How likely is the viz going to be to go to near zero and will it be that way/stay that way for a significant time or distance?
3. Are there any specific conditions that are not reflected on the map or are their accuracy issues with the map?
4. Are there preferred/ideal areas to leave a stage on the way in?
That would actually be useful "advice".
My post answered the question within 1 minute of him posting. Anyone who's been around cave diving long enough to be attempting a dive like this knew exactly what I meant. The OP's reply makes it clear that he understood my comment, and anything beyond that was chatter.Quote:
Originally Posted by DA Aquamaster
Sorry it didn't include 2 pages of babble, a reference to aviation training, a comment stating that someone will understand better when they're older, and side mount advice from someone who's mostly used their rig in back mount tourist caves. I'll work on being more "helpful". :roll:
I don't know if snarky would best describe my first post on this thread. Off topic, sure, snarky? Naw
I thought it was pretty clear that everyone who had looked at, or had done, the dive in question made it pretty clear that it was best done in SM(OP included). I think its funny to ask a question, in which everyone made it fairly clear that one configuration would be better than another(regardless of if its BMable or not), then completely disregard that information. Just as your questions(DA) would result in the same type of conjecture, what you are unable to turn around in, someone else can. Near zero vis? Is that 3-5' vis, or 1-2"? Specific conditions not reflected accurately on the map?? I can go ahead and say, yeah, probably. Stage drop points, if you're carrying the damned thing, you should be able to recognize where the best place to lay it, if at all. Just as usefull as the advice given in the rest of this thread, I'd think eh?
Based upon the dive description provided I do not think they actually reached Woody's Room. The tunnel is certainly backmountable immediately off the mainline, but the passage to Woody's Room is not. With respect to posting a "how to" on a particular dive, part of the fun in diving is figuring that out yourself. For this particular dive, I'd say to talk to someone who's been there as Kelly recommended they talk to Bill. Me, I've been there, and talked to Bill before my buddy and I went. I would be happy to talk to someone else wishing to go, but I'm not going to post the "how to" on the Internet for a dive like this.
Lee
I still like your avatar
The reason no one said "it isn't backmountble" is becasue "backmountable" is a relative judgement call.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary
Backmount or sidemount the point is not to touch or mark the cave. Having sidemount tanks bumping and dragging across the roof is not a good thing any more than doubles bumping the roof.
I tend to think that a skilled diver on backmount can go "most" places a sidemount diver can go without marking the cave.
I could hardly say the dive was "sidemount only" when my buddy and I did it in backmount.
The dude: congratulations on your dive! I used to share stories about dives that "are backmountable". People warned me not to. But it turns out that saying something "is backmountable" is like telling some people that you just carefully drove a sports car under a bridge so anyone who just bought a dump truck thinks they can fit also.
Anyway "good dive"!
It's a skill dive. I can't remember much particularly interesting I saw but I remember being pretty excited about doing it well. :-) (I think there was a tiny 1' mud-hole with a line running thru it at the end where we turned around - still wondering if the "room" could possibly be farther thru that hole. As I said we figured out what the "room" was on the way back.)
It's was a long dive: 150 min. I do remember the ranger was waiting for us when we surfaced... oops!
Hasn't Woody been known to tie the line to a rock a chuck it through restrictions like that?Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary
I've heard that rumor but I've never crawled thru a hole to find a rock with a line tied to it. ;-)Quote:
Originally Posted by Greenwood_60
Maybe someone did that once. I think most of those lines are real. Not to say they go any place that I want to see. Some do, some don't.
Affectionately known as "Woody-the-Worm" since he could get through anything, it seemed.Quote:
Originally Posted by jj1987