Letter to help prevent recreational diving @ Wakulla Springs State Park

Sue Damon sent the following to Herschel Vinyard:
http://www.facebook.com/home.php?sk=...id=65283961569

Quote:

---

Dear Mr Vinyard,

I oppose recreational diving at Wakulla Springs for a number of reasons. I am a volunteer boat driver there, and I work two days a week. Diving would conflict with the tour boats. This would require that the tour route be drastically changed for the river boat and would... eliminate 90 percent of
the glass bottom boat route when divers were in the water. No other state park that
allows diving in a spring has motorized boats operating where divers are present.

Also, due to water quality issues, we have frequent days of low visibility: In recent years the clarity of the water at Wakulla Springs has been extremely poor with visibility often less than 10 feet adding poor visibility to the extreme depths of Wakulla Springs makes it an inappropriate state park for diving.

Due to the extreme depth of Wakulla Springs the time required for decompression would be greater that other state park diving sites. These increased decompression times could easily extend the duration of the
dive beyond the closing time.

Swimmers and alligators have safely co-existed for years at Wakulla Springs as lon...g as the people abide by the rules and stay in the swimming area. Two attacks have occurred and both were outside the designated swimming area. Divers would be swimming in this area.

Diving at Wakulla Springs is already provided: Two different sites managed by Wakulla Springs State Park (Cherokee and Emerald Sink) currently allow diving.

Direct revenue for Wakulla Springs State Park would likely be negatively impacted as a result of conflicts with tour boats and swimmers as described above. Divers ...pay the same park admission as the other nearly 200,000 park visitors so they would not generate additional revenue. The local economy does, however, benefit greatly from the other recreational activities offered in the park, with more than 11 million dollars in economic impact, as reported by the DEP Division of Recreation.

Please, don't allow diving to disrupt this beautiful historic park, with their primal trips back into the wild rivers, and how life once was, in beautiful Wakulla County. Please leave one thing undisturbed and unspoiled by today's opportunists.

Thank you in advance for your consideration.

Best,
Sue Damon

---

Since she posted this on the "Friends of Wakulla Springs State Park" facebook page, I'm certain she would appreciate our feedback.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by jj1987

Since she posted this on the "Friends of Wakulla Springs State Park" facebook page, I'm certain she would appreciate our feedback.

---

SHE doesn't need our feedback, Herschel Vinyard does. An email is okay, but a hard-copy letter is better. It's most productive to be respectful and polite in your replies and include specifics: I make ___ cave dives each year, I spend ___ in cave diving gear each year, I spend ___ in air fills each year. I stay at hotels when I travel to cave dive, I eat at locally-owned restaurants. I want to dive your site and give you my money, etc. I am a butcher, baker, candlestick maker, not an 18 year old corvette driving alcoholic, and so on.....

Secretary Herschel Vinyard
Department of Environmental Protection
3900 Commonwealth Blvd MS 10
Tallahassee, FL 32399

Thanks Benderr, I have started a Facebook page, Divers For Wakulla Springs. That is really a good idea about sending a hard copy. I dont know if it is ok to link it here, I would never want to make an admin made at me:-)

Oh, and not that I dont like getting into a pissing match, but I think we should take the high road and just pick apart the ops. argument on its lack of merit.

Some considerations:
1)When the WKPP dives they are usually in a side area that is out of site of diving,and their viewing by the visitors is minimal
2) Visitors enjoy seeing the divers,and have many questions. Places like Weeki Wachee the divers enhance the visitors experience
3)Recreational diving and co-exist well with swimmers at state parks ie Madison and Manatee (hint use other state parks for an example) Things can be done as not to interfere
4)The primal trips mentioned go down the Wakulla river where there is no diving,so there is no interference. The glass bottom boats don't run much anymore due to diminished water quality,and this would be the only conflict,but divers can be directed away from this area.
5)Many springs such as Lafayette and Madison (hint state park examples) have low visibility due to other factors,and in those cases diving activity is halted.
6) Cave diving is another example of ecotourism that supports another visitor opportunity to see primal Florida before history. (not opportunists,but want to enjoy another aspect of the park)
7) No history of attacks on divers by alligators. Alligators are intimidated by people with dive gear that generates bubbles ,and unless threatened they will yield.
8) Emerald does allow diving,but with a limited carrying capacity. Other diving opportunities can have a similar carrying capacity to assist with management issues,and not interfere with other visitors. Emerald has been managed very well with a reservation system,and check in and out.
9) Divers can bring money to the park for improvements to support the activity. The steps at Emerald were paid for and built by divers,as well as improvements at other state parks like Peacock (hint state park example)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kelly Jessop

...4)The primal trips mentioned go down the Wakulla river where there is no diving,so there is no interference. The glass bottom boats don't run much anymore due to diminished water quality,and this would be the only conflict,but divers can be directed away from this area.

---

If you do mention the letter from the "boat lady", stress the fact that the divers can stay well below the surface to avoid problems with the boats, and that tourists like watching divers.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by FW

If you do mention the letter from the "boat lady", stress the fact that the divers can stay well below the surface to avoid problems with the boats, and that tourists like watching divers.

---

Better yet the divers can be directed with unobtrusive guide line to an area where the boats don't go. They probably won't accept the argument we will stay below the surface,because the possibility of someone surfacing in an area where boats are still exists. Important,for safety issues the park will consider,that divers can be completely seperated from the boats,and surfacing near the boats won't occur due to procedures put in place.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kelly Jessop

Better yet the divers can be directed with unobtrusive guide line to an area where the boats don't go...

---

Don't the boats go over the top of the cave entrance?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by FW

Don't the boats go over the top of the cave entrance?

---

Yes,but exiting divers can go to the side in an area away from boat traffic. Quite easily a zone can be set up for divers where the boats don't traverse,and not take away from the park experience of the boaters.

The key is to provide solutions to problems in advance,that is a win-win situation.

Must have missed it...has someone (with any kind of influence) proposed that recreational diving be allowed at Wakulla?

Her letter sounds like it was written with the help of someone who dives.

I make dozens of safe dives every year with boats right above me - you know, at St. Andrews State Park.

(And these are boats with clueless drivers.)

the basin is so massive I can't see how the boat would have any trouble with the divers.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by JamieZ

Her letter sounds like it was written with the help of someone who dives.

---

Maybe an uninformed diver. Emerald can only support so many divers(apparently) and there's tons of hoops to jump through to dive it.

Cherokee Sink hasn't been open in several years.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SuPrBuGmAn

Maybe an uninformed diver. Emerald can only support so many divers(apparently) and there's tons of hoops to jump through to dive it.

Cherokee Sink hasn't been open in several years.

---

emerald isn't what I would call "open"

Yep, thats my point, and we should also be pushing towards more lax regulation there IMO.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by LiteHedded

emerald isn't what I would call "open"

---

No, but it is better then totally closed like it was for years. I know it seems like a slow process, but we need to convince the State Park people that we are safe to dive there. Since there haven't been any problems in a couple of years, they may start relaxing the rules some, but yelling about it won't do any good. Joining one of the groups got it this far would help, like GUE, NACD, NSS-CDS. WCDC too :-)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by phreaticus

Must have missed it...has someone (with any kind of influence) proposed that recreational diving be allowed at Wakulla?

---

I think there has been a bottom up effort in Wakulla County via the various political bodies/commissions including the economic development group. That group has contacted the park and the discussion is moving upward in DEP. Bill

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by FW

No, but it is better then totally closed like it was for years. I know it seems like a slow process, but we need to convince the State Park people that we are safe to dive there. Since there haven't been any problems in a couple of years, they may start relaxing the rules some, but yelling about it won't do any good. Joining one of the groups got it this far would help, like GUE, NACD, NSS-CDS. WCDC too :-)

---

agreed. anyone who is not a member of the wcdc but is complaining about closed sites in wakulla county really grinds my gears.
I would also like to see efforts like these targeted at places like oleno and suwanee river state park, rose, etc.

Someone in the know (Mat) please tell me the requirements for Emerald, and the reason that Cherokee is closed.

Additionally, does anyone know the boat tour schedules for the past year? Is it true that there are two runs (primitive aka river and glass bottom)?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Benderr

Someone in the know (Mat) please tell me the requirements for Emerald, and the reason that Cherokee is closed.

Additionally, does anyone know the boat tour schedules for the past year? Is it true that there are two runs (primitive aka river and glass bottom)?

---

When I was up there last (during the summer I believe), the glass boats were not running. The river tours were in full force, with 2 boats on the river all day.

Cherokee Sink
http://www.cavediver.net/forum/showt...ee-Sink-closed

Quote:

---

Cherokee Sink won't reopen without permit

State park service can't afford $200,000 for public restrooms

By Gerald Ensley
Democrat Senior writer

Cherokee Sink is closed to public swimming — and there's no telling when it will reopen.

The state park service-owned sinkhole was closed by state health officials March 12, after high levels of bacteria were found in the sinkhole's water. Though such closures are routine and usually temporary, the discovery revealed Cherokee Sink never received a "public bathing place" permit, as required of all swimming areas in state parks.

The park service then applied for a bathing permit from the state Department of Health. But one of the chief requirements is permanent public restrooms; Cherokee Sink has only portable toilets. State park officials estimate public restrooms at Cherokee Sink would cost about $200,000 for construction and sewage — and they don't have the money right now.

"Currently, there are no funds available to construct a permanent restroom facility," said Jessica Kemper, Florida Park Service information director. "Until all the requirements of the bathing permit can be met, the park service is not authorized to reopen Cherokee Sink."

Cherokee Sink is a popular natural swimming hole across State Road 61 from Wakulla Springs State Park. It was purchased by the state in 1999 and operated since 2001 by Wakulla Springs State Park. Park manager Brian Fugate said 31,598 people visited Cherokee Sink last year.

Cherokee Sink was owned for decades by the St. Joe Co., which did not sanction its public use — even though thousands swam there — and thus was not required to have a permit. The state licenses 200 freshwater swimming areas on lakes and rivers, including all public swimming areas in state parks.

Bob Vincent, a Department of Health environmental administrator, said there were "hundreds of miles of rivers and lakes" without permits where people swim anyway.

"But if you hold yourself out as a public bathing area you have to (meet the permitting rules)," Vincent said. "We're trying to make it apparent to the public which ones are sanctioned, which ones are healthier and cleaner."

Why park officials did not previously apply for a permit for Cherokee Sink — even though the Wakulla Springs swimming area has long had one — is "a very good question," Vincent said. Vincent noted monthly water testing and the portable toilets indicated awareness of the permit's requirements.

Kemper said the park service operates no other sinkholes "that are primarily identified as swimming destinations," and the park service was "first notified that a bathing permit was necessary" when Cherokee Sink was closed in March. She said it was the first time Cherokee Sink had been closed because of water quality since the state began operating it in 2001.

Though she could offer no timetable, Kemper indicated Cherokee Sink would reopen.

"(The park service's) intention for Cherokee Sink is to maintain public access for swimming," Kemper said. "To do such, funding must be obtained to construct permanent restrooms and we cannot speculate on when this money will be allocated."

---

One issue with Emerald is that it's open to trimix divers only. Heading towards the Black Abyss, there's quite a bit of cave that can be seen on 32% nitrox. Beyond that, I'm not sure. I'm aware of one diver who has been rejected, who had the 100 post full cave dives and trimix cert because he didn't have a detailed logbook. I also know of another case where the log wasn't accepted at first because it was in the divers native language.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by jj1987

When I was up there last (during the summer I believe), the glass boats were not running. The river tours were in full force, with 2 boats on the river all day.

One issue with Emerald is that it's open to trimix divers only. Heading towards the Black Abyss, there's quite a bit of cave that can be seen on 32% nitrox. Beyond that, I'm not sure. I'm aware of one diver who has been rejected, who had the 100 post full cave dives and trimix cert because he didn't have a detailed logbook. I also know of another case where the log wasn't accepted at first because it was in the divers native language.

---

Nice, thank you.

Any estimate on total training costs (not counting gear and expenses) from non-diver to full-cave trimix diver?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Benderr

Any estimate on total training costs (not counting gear and expenses) from non-diver to full-cave trimix diver?

---

What else is there? Just training?

LOL, if you are local... 5k +gas
If you are not local alot more.


Actually... probably closer to 6k +gas & dives.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Benderr

Someone in the know (Mat) please tell me the requirements for Emerald, and the reason that Cherokee is closed.

---

Emerald dive procedure:

http://www.safecavediving.com/forms/...-050508Rev.pdf

Wow..... So many things I could say here....

Thanks OFG.

The criteria for determining a cave diver’s eligibility for the issuance of authorization to dive Emerald Sink shall be as follows:

1. Applicant holds a full cave diving certification equivalent from one of the following certifying agencies: NACD; NSS-CDS; IANTD; TDI; or GUE. (If one holds a full cave certification equivalent from another agency not listed, further review will be required by the Panel);

2. Certification as a Trimix Diver;

3. A minimum of 100 logged cave dives after certification to NACD, NSS-CDS or TDI Full Cave Diver/GUE Cave II Diver/IANTD Cave Diver or IANTD Technical Cave Diver level;

4. Deep dive experience within the past 12 months consisting of a minimum of three dives in excess of 150 feet involving staged decompression of at least 45 minutes and;

5. DAN Master Diver insurance or the equivalent.

Edit: Looks like OFG-1 beat me to it :-)

I guess I won't be going to Emerald for awhile - I haven't seen 150' in six years.

(And does that actually mean 45 minutes of deco?)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Slüdge

I guess I won't be going to Emerald for awhile - I haven't seen 150' in six years.

---

What, have you lost the deep section in JB again?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Superlyte27

LOL, if you are local... 5k +gas
If you are not local alot more.


Actually... probably closer to 6k +gas & dives.

---

That's depressing, I hope its that low LOL

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Slüdge

....(And does that actually mean 45 minutes of deco?)

---

Yes

Yeah, its pretty silly

i can understand everythig but the 45 minutes of deco?

As far as the Trimix goes,
Anyone who meets the following criteria will earn free trimix instruction.
1. Is instrumental in the opening of Wakulla Springs State Park property*
2. holds the minimum number of dives needed.
3. Pays all instructor expenses and drive said instructor around, not limited to gas, meals, and any strip club cover fees
4. Class conducted when instructor is not busy with other stuff.
5. Diver is not an Arse hole*

*To be determined by the instructor.*

Hate see this thread get off track from its original purpose,but there is a real opporunity here.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kelly Jessop

Hate see this thread get off track from its original purpose,but there is a real opporunity here.

---

I understand an economic study may be done, like what happened in Jackson County. I think they would listen to the dollar figures.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Caver95

3. Pays all instructor expenses and drive said instructor around, not limited to gas, meals, and any strip club cover fees

---

Are those the fees that the girls pay you to keep yourself covered at all times?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by adam0321

i can understand everythig but the 45 minutes of deco?

---

I don't understand the Trimix requirement at all, considering a couple thousand feet downstream you can dive freely, with the same profile(shallow one way, deep the other). The 45 minutes of deco, three times in whatever amount of time, requirement is just as silly.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SuPrBuGmAn

I don't understand the Trimix requirement at all, considering a couple thousand feet downstream you can dive freely, with the same profile(shallow one way, deep the other). The 45 minutes of deco, three times in whatever amount of time, requirement is just as silly.

---

Don't just gripe, write letters. Point out that lots of divesites have deep sections, but don't require trimix. A good example is Hendly's Castle in Peacock. The ocean has deep spots too, and beginners are taught there :-D

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Caver95

As far as the Trimix goes,
Anyone who meets the following criteria will earn free trimix instruction.
1. Is instrumental in the opening of Wakulla Springs State Park property*
2. holds the minimum number of dives needed.
3. Pays all instructor expenses and drive said instructor around, not limited to gas, meals, and any strip club cover fees
4. Class conducted when instructor is not busy with other stuff.
5. Diver is not an Arse hole*

*To be determined by the instructor.*

---

Do we have to travel to Moldova to take part in this offer???

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SuPrBuGmAn

I don't understand the Trimix requirement at all, considering a couple thousand feet downstream you can dive freely, with the same profile(shallow one way, deep the other). The 45 minutes of deco, three times in whatever amount of time, requirement is just as silly.

---

Mat: I've done some research on a closely related matter, and have some strategies set aside that could also be used in the fight for Emerald. Once things cool down a bit with the current project let's talk things over and get a plan of attack.

Diving deaths are common at our popular dive sites. But few people witness these tragedies.

But Wakulla has a high family recreation use.
The state has to be cautious. And I think we should too.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Puttzer

Diving deaths are common at our popular dive sites. But few people witness these tragedies.

But Wakulla has a high family recreation use.
The state has to be cautious. And I think we should too.

---

In 2009 diver doing a shore entry at Navarre beach died (I believe it was a cave diver too). This took place at the height of tourist season, and was no doubt witnessed by hundreds of men, women and children. It didn't happen in a cave, it happened right in front of their eyes. Should we disallow scuba diving on beaches because families there might witness an accident? Maybe we should outlaw swimming at state parks too, because I'm pretty sure a woman drowned at Wakulla park about two years ago too.

For that matter, all cars traveling to Disneyland must now have blinders placed on the rear passenger windows because traffic accidents are gruesome, and children shouldn't witness such things.

I'm pretty sure Florida highways kill more people than Florida caves.

Benderr - hit me up when you're ready dude.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Puttzer

Diving deaths are common at our popular dive sites. But few people witness these tragedies.

---

They're common huh?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Benderr

Mat: I've done some research on a closely related matter, and have some strategies set aside that could also be used in the fight for Emerald. Once things cool down a bit with the current project let's talk things over and get a plan of attack.

---

Honestly, I wouldn't focus toooo much on changing rules at open sites. For now, all you need is trimix and a few reasonable dives. I mean really, if you've been below 150, how can you not have 45min deco unless you're bounce diving?

We've got several government owned sites that need attention:
-Rose Sink
-Edwards
-M2
-Sullivan Sink
-Gopher Sink (owned by a hunt club, but I think could be opened with some work)
-Sally Ward
-Promise / Go Between (would mainly want to use the access roads from the leon sinks preserve)
-Apopka Blue
-Oleno
-Wekiva Springs
-Rock Springs

Just my $0.02 of course, but there's so much cave that's inaccessible to the public that I wouldn't start complaining about the rules at Emerald.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Puttzer

Diving deaths are common at our popular dive sites. But few people witness these tragedies.

But Wakulla has a high family recreation use.
The state has to be cautious. And I think we should too.

---

Thinking back over the last year, have we even had an average of 1/2 a death per year at each site? Considering the low number of divers qualified to dive Wakulla, how infrequently visibility would support diving, and the fact that it's in an area where very few other caves are open (or at least the general public isn't aware they are), I just don't see it being dove all that often to even come close to Ginnie or Peacock like numbers.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kevin Carlisle

I understand an economic study may be done, like what happened in Jackson County. I think they would listen to the dollar figures.

---

An economic study on wakulla has been done and is in the final review process at the academic/peer reviewed journal Marine Resource Economics. It is similar to the one we did at JB that appeared in Energy and Resource Economics but rather than a combination of stated (what people say they will do) and revealed (what they actually do) preferences we use a willingness to pay model and we have some pretty good (read statistically defendable) results. I have made a couple of presentations using this data but have been waiting to "officially" release results until the paper is completely acccepted for publication. Right now as i write this we are cleaning a couple of things up for an assistant editor at the journal (like what's the difference between a cave and a cavern and how we adjust for hypothetical bias, etc.). What we have done here for wakulla diving demand is also related to the diving value work we have done on the Oriskany and the Vandenberg (the latter is coming out as a chapter in an environmental economic modeling book this year). Bill

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SuPrBuGmAn

Benderr - hit me up when you're ready dude.



They're common huh?

---

Actually you are right.

Cave diving deaths are effectively rare.
I stand corrected.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Puttzer

Actually you are right.

Cave diving deaths are effectively rare.
I stand corrected.

---

It is all relative...i am working on a project now the outcome of which will probably be the ban of oyster harvesting for the "raw" market of all Gulf of Mexico product over the period april through october because there are about 15 deaths annually from the consumption of naturally contaminated raw oysters by at risk (liver disease, immune deficency, diabetes, etc.) people. Healthy people can eat the oysters with minimal or no problems, only at risk people are in danger of death and that probability is small. Given annual oyster consumption number of deaths are effectively rare but regardless policy may well be oput in place to protect them at the expense of the rest of the population. Bill

Please mail a hard-copy letter to both Secretary Vinyard AND the Wakulla County Commission. There is a sample letter for you to use or edit on the facebook page (under the "doc" tab). Emails are great, but spam filters and lazy subordinates can easily keep your correspondence from reaching the decision makers. Please send an actual letter if at all possible.

Please copy [email protected] with any emails you send out, and, if possible, a scanned copy of any hard-copy letters you send too. (we want to keep track of what has been sent in case the battle continues)

Facebook Page and sample letter:
Welcome to Facebook

Date

Secretary Herschel Vinyard
Department of Environmental Protection
3900 Commonwealth Blvd MS 10
Tallahassee, Florida 32399
[email protected]

Re: Scuba Diving at Wakulla State Park

Dear Sec. Vinyard,

My name is _______________________ and I reside in ______________,
_____________. I have been a scuba diver for _____ years and frequently dive the springs and
underwater caves located throughout Florida. Last year I safely executed _____ dives in Florida’s
freshwater springs and cave systems. For each and every one of these dives I spend
approximately $________. This money goes towards access fees, food, lodging, air fills and
travel costs. I also spend approximately $________ annually purchasing scuba gear from Florida
retailers.

It has recently come to my attention that scuba diving is being considered as an approved
activity at Wakulla Spring, which is located within the Edward Ball State Park. I believe that
scuba divers have been unfairly denied equal access to this public location for too long.

Wes Skiles Peacock Springs State Park and Blue Spring State Park successfully allow
recreational scuba activities. Scuba access at these locations does not disrupt the enjoyment of
other park visitors, nor does it damage the park. The revenue brought in by the diving community
significantly enriches both the parks and the areas surrounding them.

I am very interested in diving Wakulla Spring and will make immediate plans to do so if
the park is opened to divers. I have spoken with many of my scuba diving friends about Wakulla
Spring, and they too have expressed a serious interest in diving at the park if allowed to do so.

Thank you for your time and consideration.

Respectfully,


cc: Wakulla County Board of County Commissioners
P.O. Box 1263
Crawfordville, Florida 32326
[email protected]

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Benderr

Date

Secretary Herschel Vinyard
Department of Environmental Protection
3900 Commonwealth Blvd MS 10
Tallahassee, Florida 32399
[email protected]

Re: Scuba Diving at Wakulla State Park

Dear Sec. Vinyard,
...

---

Just another thought: cave divers are organized and frequently clean in the springs where swimmers see but unthinkingly toss trash.

Who else but divers can keep the underwater part clean?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Benderr

Wes Skiles Peacock Springs State Park and Blue Spring State Park successfully allow
recreational scuba activities.

---

... as well as Madison Blue Spring State Park.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Slüdge

... as well as Madison Blue Spring State Park.

---

...or they did until the budget cuts ;-(

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by jj1987

Honestly, I wouldn't focus toooo much on changing rules at open sites. For now, all you need is trimix and a few reasonable dives. I mean really, if you've been below 150, how can you not have 45min deco unless you're bounce diving?

We've got several government owned sites that need attention:
-Rose Sink
-Edwards
-M2
-Sullivan Sink
-Gopher Sink (owned by a hunt club, but I think could be opened with some work)
-Sally Ward
-Promise / Go Between (would mainly want to use the access roads from the leon sinks preserve)
-Apopka Blue
-Oleno
-Wekiva Springs
-Rock Springs

Just my $0.02 of course, but there's so much cave that's inaccessible to the public that I wouldn't start complaining about the rules at Emerald.


Thinking back over the last year, have we even had an average of 1/2 a death per year at each site? Considering the low number of divers qualified to dive Wakulla, how infrequently visibility would support diving, and the fact that it's in an area where very few other caves are open (or at least the general public isn't aware they are), I just don't see it being dove all that often to even come close to Ginnie or Peacock like numbers.

---

I think rock springs is privately owned, if you mean the one in apopka

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by LiteHedded

I think rock springs is privately owned, if you mean the one in apopka

---

I think Orange Co. owns it. I think it'd be more fun tubing there if it were private, for obvious reasons.

A true economic study involves more than the narrow look into "what an action will do for my wallet in "X" county." That's a very selfish perspective. True economics looks to maximize the utilization of a scarce resource with a good conscious effort to gain the maximium benefit to the most stakeholder groups, while preserving the said resource from abuse at the same time. It's a balancing act. But this can rarely be achieved through a mutually exclusive "this or that" mentality. Any manager who has been given the privilege of managing a resource on behalf of others must look at all the variables with the understanding that moral obligations to enhance the enjoyment of society with that resource may or may not always be reflected in monetary gain. A "boat operator" is a "boat operator" and not the manager of the property for this very reason.

Wakulla is not a fully-utilized resource. Yes, the boats use the surface of the water. But there is an entire underwater world that largely sits unused. It's like an entire museum waiting to be enjoyed, but this particular museum has no business hours. Yet, there's an entire stakeholder group waiting eagerly to visit. Wakulla represents the mammoth of cave dives to make. Even the open water portion would be worth the trip. As an analogy, how assinine would it be to prohibit people from living directly under the flight paths of airplanes just because there are planes in the sky (in case they have to make an emergency landing or happen to crash)? Yet, that's what this boat thing is comparable to.

I think there's a way to do this where everyone wins, to the exclusion of none (Just as Kelly, FW, and others have said). Hell, if they open Wakulla, I just may come back from cave diving retirement and hit that one a time or two myself.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by aw

A true economic study involves more than the narrow look into "what an action will do for my wallet in "X" county." That's a very selfish perspective. True economics looks to maximize the utilization of a scarce resource with a good conscious effort to gain the maximium benefit to the most stakeholder groups, while preserving the said resource from abuse at the same time. It's a balancing act. But this can rarely be achieved through a mutually exclusive "this or that" mentality. Any manager who has been given the privilege of managing a resource on behalf of others must look at all the variables with the understanding that moral obligations to enhance the enjoyment of society with that resource may or may not always be reflected in monetary gain. A "boat operator" is a "boat operator" and not the manager of the property for this very reason.

Wakulla is not a fully-utilized resource. Yes, the boats use the surface of the water. But there is an entire underwater world that largely sits unused. It's like an entire museum waiting to be enjoyed, but this particular museum has no business hours. Yet, there's an entire stakeholder group waiting eagerly to visit. Wakulla represents the mammoth of cave dives to make. Even the open water portion would be worth the trip. As an analogy, how assinine would it be to prohibit people from living directly under the flight paths of airplanes just because there are planes in the sky (in case they have to make an emergency landing or happen to crash)? Yet, that's what this boat thing is comparable to.

I think there's a way to do this where everyone wins, to the exclusion of none (Just as Kelly, FW, and others have said). Hell, if they open Wakulla, I just may come back from cave diving retirement and hit that one a time or two myself.

---

The airplane analogy crossed my mind as well.

Please be aware that it's not just a boat operator that is making these points to Sec. Vinyard. The former director of this park has made those same points, in writing, to Sec. Vinyard. She, and others in her group are trying to drum up support for an anti-dive campaign.

With other parks possibly closing, it's more important than ever to push for our fair and equal access at Wakulla (which isn't currently on the chopping block). Please send your letters in today.

Thanks

Any ideas why the former director is anti-diving? I see (though don't agree with) the boat operator's point of view, but would like to understand others' reasoning.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by sskasser

Any ideas why the former director is anti-diving? I see (though don't agree with) the boat operator's point of view, but would like to understand others' reasoning.

---

I don't know the woman personally, but she has a clear bias against divers. I suspect that a certain group has fed her misleading information about scuba diving, and specifically, cave diving. This group profits from Wakulla being closed to the diving public. No, I won't name names, publicly or privately. This is my opinion only.

But she doesn't get a free ride from that, because she claims that Cherokee Sink is open to divers, and I find it very, very difficult to believe that she doesn't know it's been closed since Summer 2009 to all swimming and diving. She has an interest herself in keeping it closed, but I can't say what that is, and it really doesn't matter. I suspect she likes things the way they are, and is resistant to change, like lots of folks.

There is an attachment that went with that letter, and she mentions that it was fortunate in the past, that divers had been injured during slow park periods because the air ambulances would have disrupted park activities otherwise.... I'm paraphrasing, but not embellishing.....

Could I ask that members of other cave-diving forums (like NSS-CDS for example) help spread the word? I'm not a mamber, and don't want to join a new forum just to spam it with a pet project. Please direct folks from other forums to this thread or to the facebook page here: http://www.facebook.com/#!/home.php?...854052655&ap=1

It's really important that we get as many divers as we can involved in the letter writing. We want to keep pushing while we have momentum.

Thanks

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Benderr

I don't know the woman personally, but she has a clear bias against divers. There is an attachment that went with that letter, and she mentions that it was fortunate in the past, that divers had been injured during slow park periods because the air ambulances would have disrupted park activities otherwise.... I'm paraphrasing, but not embellishing.....

---

It may be beneficial to talk with the woman in person, get her perspective and gently attempt a compromise with her. bringing opposition to your side, or at least putting a reasonable face on, goes a long way toward conflict resolution. Authorities are impressed when two factions reach an agreement/compromise.

skip

Skip - there was cave diving representation at the Friends of Wakulla CSO meeting. Responses were negative, but atleast mostly polite it seems.

Skip, someone else is handling that aspect of our project. From what I heard though, many folks on the other side are not willing to compromise, mostly because they feel like they don't have to compromise with us, or anyone else. It seems from my second-hand observations that they're not listening to our side (they HEAR what we say, but don't really LISTEN). There are some neutral folks sitting on the fence, and we ARE talking to them. There are some legitimate concerns, and I think everyone in the dive community are willing to compromise on those particular issues.

Honestly, I think we'll get more traction with state representatives, especially if we don't get into a "wetsuit warming" match with the other side. We want to respectfully set the bosses straight, without being negative towards the other group and we want to focus on how both groups can benefit from our (diver) inclusion. That's why the suggested form letter centers mostly on the economic impacts diving can bring to the table, as we don't need 100 different divers giving the state a lecture on trimix diving or manatee conservation.

That's why it's important to get other interested divers (and bulletin boards) involved in the letter writing. Every letter the State folks see, shows them that someone is interested in spending money at a state park, and ultimately, I think money will be what the decision will come down to.