Cave Fatalities vs. Keys (or total) Fatalities

I need info on the total number of cave fatalities in a year (2009 or 2010 would be best). I need this from a quotable source if possible.

I'm looking to compare caver fatalities to say, divers killed by boats in the keys, or total scuba fatalities would be even better

I'm trying to demonstrate that cave diving is not as dangerous as it seems (because of modern training and gear).

Thanks

For a meaningful comparison you will also need the number of dives made in each environment. Possibly a fatalities per 1000 dives proportion for each environment is a more meaningful comparison than just fatalities in each environment per year. Those will be very challenging to determine since the number of dives in each environment is probably not known.

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Originally Posted by OutlawCaver

For a meaningful comparison you will also need the number of dives made in each environment. Possibly a fatalities per 1000 dives proportion for each environment is a more meaningful comparison than just fatalities in each environment per year. Those will be very challenging to determine since the number of dives in each environment is probably not known.

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Heh. "meaningful" from a statistical standpoint is not as important as meaningful from an anecdotal standpoint in this particular project. I need the numbers to be "true", but I'm not expecting the folks on the other side to be as smart as you ;-)

It's more about the appearance of liability than about statistical significance. (If 1 death = bad, then 2 deaths = more bad)

thanks

Lol, typical. Numbers that while are accurate, don't reflect reality.

www.diversalertnetwork.com has annual reports on total fatalities of all sorts - as well as some "accident:number of dive" ratio numbers from their Project Dive Awareness (PDA) section of the annual report.

DAN members have free access on that website to all the annual reports going back... many years.


http://www.diversalertnetwork.org/medical/report/

Jeff Bozanic keeps the statistics of cave falaties: JBozanic@hqonline.net

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Originally Posted by PfcAJ

Lol, typical. Numbers that while are accurate, don't reflect reality.

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My most memorable quote from graduate-level statistics - "Figures don't lie, but liars figure."

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Originally Posted by PfcAJ

Lol, typical. Numbers that while are accurate, don't reflect reality.

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A dead scuba diver IS reality. It's bad for business. It doesn't matter if that diver is 1 in 1,000 or 1 in 1,000,000 it's about the perception of risk more than actual risk.

I can't tell you how many people tell me they would never dive because they are afraid of sharks. Are they afraid of sharks because scuba divers are gobbled up like hor'dourves every day, or because some guy three years ago got bit while spearfishing?

Because some guy, 35 years ago, made a movie.

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Originally Posted by Benderr

I need info on the total number of cave fatalities in a year (2009 or 2010 would be best). I need this from a quotable source if possible.

I'm looking to compare caver fatalities to say, divers killed by boats in the keys, or total scuba fatalities would be even better

I'm trying to demonstrate that cave diving is not as dangerous as it seems (because of modern training and gear).

Thanks

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Sure.

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Originally Posted by Marc Bryan

Because some guy, 35 years ago, made a movie.

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And then another, and another and ...

You might wish to take a look at some of the mortality related data at rebreatherworld and the cdc does quite a bit of reporting on mortality. An instructive comparison for cave diving might well be climbing and it is useful to look at what public agencies (nps) require for climbing places like hood or ranier. Bill