Sinus trouble

So I was diving El Dudu on Sunday and had a bit of a cold but no big deal, felt a slight pressure in the sinuses but it equalized fine. We came out at the second entrance at the current end of the line to explore the dry cave and see if there is any possible ongoing passage, there is.

Anyway after about and hour or so we decide to head on back and as I go down at about 5-6mtrs I have intense sinus pain, no big deal (we had talked about this as I felt sinus trouble brewing after being out in the dry cave) Robert goes back the way we came and I decide to get out at Cueva de Lily were we just were exploring the dry cave.
Turns out it is much much farther down the road than I had imagined and no one to my knowledge actually ever went out that way before, got some really funny looks from the landowner who was nice enough to actually give me a ride back to the main entrance, even though I was in a wet, muddy and smelly wetsuit, a super nice guy.

Anyway my question is, what type of injuries would have I sustained if I had to intentionally pop my sinuses had there not been another exit? if I had to have gone back underwater I would have needed to go at least to -14mtrs to get out.

Is this the kind of injury that would heal by itself? is it serious? I have heard that although painful the sinuses are not a big deal as opposed to the ears not equalizing.

i ruptured mine once and had tons of blood when I surfaced. it bled off and on for weeks. I guess it got infected. it was not a good time

I have seen them rupture so mildly, that the person didn't even know it was blown until a week later when he saw a doctor. He was in pain, but nothing serious. It got infected is why he finally went to the doctor. He blew it free diving to 10m without equalizing.

I had a reverse squeese that puffed up the side of my face to the point that I was half asian.

so I guess its nothing serious then unless you get a bad infection afterwards.

It can bring on vertigo. I would say the biggest danger would be ending up off the line, and silting the **** out of the cave when it pops. If you know it's coming, know what to expect worst case then physically and mentally prepare for it.

I had a severe reverse squeeze that started at about 140' while exiting Eagles Nest. I had 120 minutes of deco to deal with and it was one of the most painful and scary incidents I've ever had diving. That led to a really bad sinus and middle ear / Eustachian tube infection that required many different antibiotics, numerous trips to the ENT and kept me out of the water for 4 months.

Yup, I learned my lesson about diving with some congestion. I never ever want to go through that again.

it's bad enough to where I would never do it again

My advice, if it ever happens, go see a doctor right away. I suspect all the incidents of infection were due to waiting until it got really bad before starting antibotics. Especially in water that might have nice things, like Cholera :(

yeah really, especially in the Pedernales caves that area is under a national health warning for cholera, it is just a matter of time before it spreads all over the island.

This sinus thing happens to me now and then, after a cold for some reason I do not feel congested in any way out of the water, I only feel it when I start to go underwater.

My experiece with a severely damaged sinus occurred as result of a block occurring during a high altitude flight. When you run out of gas, you have to come down, so I did not have the luxury of skipping the dive so to speak. It took about a month to heal.

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One thing people don't often realize is that pressure differentials in sinuses that are too smal to cause pain, can cause a great deal of inflamation over the course of the dive and can cause a blockage later. One way to avoid that when you are on the edge in terms of sinus issues is to clear often and clear on the bottom whether you feel the need to or not to ensure that you are fully equalized. That will help devleoping a block or reverse block during the dive or shortly after the dive.

I have gotten in to the habit of taking benadryl (Diphenhydramine) any time I have even the slightest hint of congestion, pressure or even just a running nose. Seems to work well.

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Originally Posted by phillip1

This sinus thing happens to me now and then, after a cold for some reason I do not feel congested in any way out of the water, I only feel it when I start to go underwater.

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You must be allergic to cavediving :-D

Philip, get yourself a sinus wash system. The drug stores should have them down there, and if not let me know. Allergy clinics also have them, and it helps before and after dives. That's what I've been using for years, especially if I'm diving in questionable water. Happy New Year to you and the guys!

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Originally Posted by phillip1

yeah really, especially in the Pedernales caves that area is under a national health warning for cholera, it is just a matter of time before it spreads all over the island.

This sinus thing happens to me now and then, after a cold for some reason I do not feel congested in any way out of the water, I only feel it when I start to go underwater.

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Funny you mention that I just bought a sinus rinse thing today, called a neti pot, you mix salt with water and pour it in one nostril and out the other. My problem is that I don't feel congested at all out of the water it's in the water that I feel it every now and then.

Ya, but the more you use the system, the problem will go away, trust me......

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Originally Posted by phillip1

Funny you mention that I just bought a sinus rinse thing today, called a neti pot, you mix salt with water and pour it in one nostril and out the other. My problem is that I don't feel congested at all out of the water it's in the water that I feel it every now and then.

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Originally Posted by Greenwood_60

I have gotten in to the habit of taking benadryl (Diphenhydramine) any time I have even the slightest hint of congestion, pressure or even just a running nose. Seems to work well.

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Scratch that, it's on the Beers list. I'm pretty sure that rules a lot of you out, including all the moderators!:rollguy

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Originally Posted by phillip1

yeah really, especially in the Pedernales caves that area is under a national health warning for cholera, it is just a matter of time before it spreads all over the island.

This sinus thing happens to me now and then, after a cold for some reason I do not feel congested in any way out of the water, I only feel it when I start to go underwater.

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it was the same with me. I felt fine on the surface but at about 10 feet I had sharp pain between my eyes above my nose

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Originally Posted by Greenwood_60

I have gotten in to the habit of taking benadryl (Diphenhydramine) any time I have even the slightest hint of congestion, pressure or even just a running nose. Seems to work well.

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Benadryl can be quite sedating - it is the active ingredient in some non-prescription sleeping pills such as Sominex. I have occasionally taken it for allergy symptoms - even one 25 mg capsule makes me want to take a nap.

Mike

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Originally Posted by Greenwood_60

I'm pretty sure that rules a lot of you out, including all the moderators!

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Where's that "Ban User" button again?

I had problems in my sinus for many years, I got freediving a blockage one time about 10-15' before getting to the surface coming with no air and had to wait a bit, never blew and when I tried to go back down was like if somebody where trying to take my eye out of my face with a broken bottle...., I had many blockages and they are normally bad in the way that I cannot go back in the water or will be way too painful, will not get you to a serious condition unless your ears had same at same time, but I bet is lot more painful than blowing your ears

I have not had an eardrum rupture, but I have had some experience with swollen sinus passages causing difficulty in equalizing. On a dive job where I had to ascend/descend repeatedly to 50 feet or so over several days, my sinus passages were so swollen that every foot of ascent made a squeaking sound. I remember that when I tilted my head back to look up I saw what I can only describe as an flash of white and I was very nauseous... I assume the light had something to do with my optical nerves. Obviously, the nausea was vertigo...

I also run into something similar on repeated dives over several days that when I am descending I go through a certain depth and get nauseous. I attribute it to one ear clearing before the other creating vertigo.

I have blown both ears (not diving) as I had terrible and frequent sinus issues as a child. I've been told I have small perfectly round holes in both ear drums. I have never had an issues clearing and dont have to hold my nose to clear. I guess a little hearing loss is acceptable for a such a cool diving super-power.

Please respond slowly and clearly. I have to read your lips.

Thank you.

Stev

I had a reverse block at Jackson Blue in early 2007 (or late 2006 - it all runs together). It freaked me out, half my face was numb, I thought I'd taken a type 2 hit bad. After that I keep Afrin and sudafed in my console - if there is any hint of congestion I take both as I'm driving up to the dive site, no issues since. Scary stuff, and very painful.

Mark

It seems to have cleared up kind of, I did two days of diving no problem then the 3rd day at El Tildo I turned as I felt a hint of sinus trouble brewing, no real pain but a "I wont be able to equalize if I go up and down a few times feeling" and it is a real yoyo profile cave too.
I have been using the nasal rinse Neti pot thing with a tablespoon of salt mixed in warm water 2 times a day and it seems to help a lot.

I find that Sudafed raises heartrate and causes hyperventillation... anyone else notice this?

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Originally Posted by Boru

I find that Sudafed raises heartrate and causes hyperventillation... anyone else notice this?

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Yes, and not to mention it can "rebound". That is, stop working in mid dive, and cause a reverse block :(

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Originally Posted by FW

That is, stop working in mid dive, and cause a reverse block

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Here's my story of why I'm afraid to use nasal spray before a dive:

I was scootering JB, the fourth dive of a weekend, and as I was ascending from Hall of the Mountain King to the third T my right ear made a weird squealing sound. (The passage goes from about 95' deep to 70' deep. The third T is about the shallowest part of the cave past p300' that I go to, and it goes right back down to ~90' right afterward.) "That's not good," I thought, but like a moron I kept going.

Upon exiting, when I was ascending back to the third T my right ear didn't want to clear. I had to take a couple of minutes and "ease" it up. Then back to ~95' for most of the way back. But at the Chimney I had real problems. The passage goes from 95' to 50', straight up. It probably took me ten minutes for my ear to clear.

That was the point that I started thinking about the times that I had in the past used nasal spray before a dive, against the advice that it might "stop working in mid dive, and cause a reverse block."

another dumb question is how long did the sinus trouble last? it has been about a week now for me.

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Originally Posted by FW

Yes, and not to mention it can "rebound". That is, stop working in mid dive, and cause a reverse block :(

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can personally attest to this one - not good. After that happened, I used to bring extra with me and take additional pills mid dive ... i know ... bad idea, but i didn't know better back then. We had a system that you had to go from 60-80 down to 140 to get out to the sink hole ...... got stuck there several times not being able to clear

The neti pot is ideal. A squirt bottle of physiological saline is simpler and almost as good. I squirt saline into each nostril until it runs into my throat, suck it back, and spit it out just before each dive. This washes the mucus away from the opening of the Eustachian tube and makes equalizing much easier. Saline is non-drowsy and has no effect on oxygen toxicity. I have never experienced rebound with it.

what I do is mix a tablespoon of regular table salt with warm water, what is the difference with physiological saline?

Price