Trip Report: Peacock III

KG and I arrived at Peacock III and placed stage (32%) and deco (100%) bottles in the basin just as some SM divers were exiting. There was a hefty layer of duckweed in the basin and it looked as if someone had built a makeshift weir out of large rocks to keep it from spreading to the run to Peacock II. We began the dive on the stages and dropped them a little before the sand slide. From there on, we breathed air all the way to the end. There were a lot of hairs and suspended debris as well as silt all the way from the entrance to the jump to Hendley's. Visibility never got any better than 30' up to that point. Still, it was enough to be able to see the entire room when I spun around to place the jump reel to the line heading downward. However, when we began the descent to the bedding plane at 130' +/-, the vis increased substantially. It had been a while since our last visit and it was great to pan my lighthead back and forth across that wide plane. Upon reaching Hendley's Castle, I could see the bottom all the way from a depth of 155'. I found the bottom and poked around in the little depression, my body at 188 and reaching my arm (the one with the DC on it!) down to 190. We hung out for a few minutes and looked around the room before beginning an incredibly slow ascent. I neglected to take headache medicine before the dive and thought it would be wise to prevent the "Little River Syndrome Shaft" effect. I followed on the way out and it seemed like the cave was bigger on the exit. I think it had something to do with seeing a diver in front of me for scale. We picked up the stages and made a slow and stress-free exit. We only incurred about :10 of deco and it was nice to see the green hue above us with occasional rays of blue light penetrating the duckweed that our exhaust bubbles had cleared. What a great dive!

Thanks for the report. Hendly's Castle is one of my favorite dives.

When we do it, we normally breathe the stage to thirds then leave it on the large rock maybe 50' short of the jump to Hendlys. It leaves you on 32% a bit more and it leaves some reserve gas a little closer to you on the way out. Getting past the sand slide cleanly with a stage is not a problem, even in back mount.

Great input. Thank you.

I've never done Hendley's Castle. Can I ask, how long of a swim is it from the entrance to the jump? Is the jump marked with double arrows?

So I guess the best method to dive Hendley's Castle is to breath a 32% stage to the large rock (can I ask how many minutes to the large rock), and then some sort of air / helium mix for back gas to Hendly's Castle?

dean

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Originally Posted by deanme

Great input. Thank you.

I've never done Hendley's Castle. Can I ask, how long of a swim is it from the entrance to the jump? Is the jump marked with double arrows?

So I guess the best method to dive Hendley's Castle is to breath a 32% stage to the large rock (can I ask how many minutes to the large rock), and then some sort of air / helium mix for back gas to Hendly's Castle?

dean

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it's a marked jump. but it's also really obvious. the room it's in it really big and pretty. you can see the line on the floor on the left

gator:

How did the line look? We have gotten mixed reports on the condition of that line & if it needs work we will go fix it.

We were the SM divers (Metaldector & JA) that proceeded you. We didn't make it to Hendley's and it wasn't our goal. That was my first time in that system and as you reported the viz wasn't more than 30 feet most of the time. The lines had some growth on them and the water did have hairs floating throughout. We saw only one broken line that had been repaired with cave line somewhere in the first 300 feet. The line was buried in one place for about 25 feet but could be seen going in and out and so wasn't a problem. The pond surface was completely coverd in duck weed and so were we after our dive.

I believe it took us about 22 minutes to make it to the jump. And, as Litehedded stated, it is easy to find. Once you make it up the hill in the big room, just look down and to your left: you can't miss it. DA's recommendation about leaving the stage at the rock (instead of dropping it where you may hit thirds) makes sense as it gives you a margin for error regarding gas management. I'm an air hog and can't breathe one efficiently enough to make it that far, but there is plenty of room to carry it through the sand slide.
Most would recommend the deep portion of the dive be done on trimix, and I won't argue the merits of that at all. If you are seasoned with breathing air at deep depths and can function safely under the rapture of the deep, you won't have a problem. The castle is huge and you would have to make a concerted effort to silt up the place and get lost.

I forgot to answer Jim's question, though Metaldector partially did. The repair he talked about was right before a left hand bend at approx 275-300' in. The line break/repair hugs the left wall for its entirety. At first glance, it looked as if someone had rigged up a snap-and-gap similar to the Martz line at Madison Blue. But closer inspection revealed it to be a temporary fix. If I had some big yellow braided line at the time, I would have endeavored to repair it, but small nylon line would have just added to the confusion. I would recommend taking a 30' piece of yellow braided line and making double fisherman bends on each side to repair the problem. As it is now, there is smaller line wrapped around the main line and is very unsightly, as I'm sure the person(s) who repaired it were just ensuring a continuous guideline and not making permanent repairs. Also, do run a reel from the entrance to the permanent line. It is further back (over 50' past the stop sign) in the cave than I previously remembered. I had to wait at the end of the line while my buddy went further out to prove our exit. Easily done in decent conditions, but could be a hassle in bad or zero vis.

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Originally Posted by GatorCaver

I believe it took us about 22 minutes to make it to the jump. And, as Litehedded stated, it is easy to find. Once you make it up the hill in the big room, just look down and to your left: you can't miss it. DA's recommendation about leaving the stage at the rock (instead of dropping it where you may hit thirds) makes sense as it gives you a margin for error regarding gas management. I'm an air hog and can't breathe one efficiently enough to make it that far, but there is plenty of room to carry it through the sand slide.
Most would recommend the deep portion of the dive be done on trimix, and I won't argue the merits of that at all. If you are seasoned with breathing air at deep depths and can function safely under the rapture of the deep, you won't have a problem. The castle is huge and you would have to make a concerted effort to silt up the place and get lost.

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Wow, great input. Can't wait to make the dive.

thanks,
dean

Gator may swim faster than we normally do, and I'd have to check the download from a previous dive there, but I think we get to the jump in 25-28 minutes, but pad the gas plan for 30 minutes.

20/30 or 21/35 would work great for the deep portion of the dive. I am personally not comfortable at an END below 150' and prefer to keep it at or above 120', but I agree it could be done on air if the viz and conditions are good, it just does not leave any cognitive reserve if you have a problem.

The line to Hendlys is about 10' off to the left of the mainline, but once you actually tie in the jump line, given where the arrows are at bewteen placements, the main line will get pulled closer to around 3' from the line to Hendleys. From there it slopes down rapidy to about 90 feet and then drops even faster to the sand slide around 130'. That section is wide, but a little low. The line however is on the bottom so it is easy to follow even if it gets stirred up a bit by the team. Once past that you are there and the large room is obvious, even on air. :D

Edit: looking at the profiles for the last couple dives there, it seems we are pushing over and descending from the jump right around 30-31 minutes. That would include total run time putting in the primary line, dropping the stage and putting in the jump line.

Any dive in a cave deeper than 130 feet should be a trimix dive. Deep air in a cave to 185 feet is not smart.

I agree, but saying it that way practically invites people to cite examples that may seem on the surface to refute your statement. The (flawed) logic being "If I/he/she survived, how dumb can it be?"

I prefer to point out that whether a dive to an END below 120-130 ft can be done safely is more a matter chance as doing it safely depends to a large extent on nothing going wrongas your cognitive abilities to deal with a problem are going to be significantly reduced if/or when something does happen.

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Originally Posted by DA Aquamaster

I agree, but saying it that way practically invites people to cite examples that may seem on the surface to refute your statement. The (flawed) logic being "If I/he/she survived, how dumb can it be?"

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Sort of like when a guy says he drove home drunk as a wild Indian & made it home safely?

Exactly.

can this be done in BM? I've never done P3

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Originally Posted by Superlyte27

can this be done in BM? I've never done P3

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yea

It could alternatively be construed to mean that it is not safe for some of the readers. I'm sure there are literally thousands of divers who have better skills than I in some fashion: be it buoyancy, propulsion, referencing, surveying, etc. I would wager that some of those same divers do not have the mental capacity to multi-task while in (what some consider) an impaired state. The level of impairment for some may be extraordinarily high compared to some of those whose tolerance for- and ability to function while under its influence- nitrogen narcosis is negligible.

Of course I'm being defensive, but did anyone expect otherwise when their rationale is questioned? By implying that my behavior is stupid, some have interjected an ad hominem argument where none was necessary. Let me return the favor: perhaps someone's reluctance to complete tasks because their cognitive abilities may be infinitesimal compared to other divers, coupled with their lack of civility when broaching the subject, leaves them with no other choice but to belittle those with which they disagree.

Ad hominem attacks do nothing to further the conversation, do they?

I am blessed to be 75% ambidextrious, and have endured hundreds of batteries involving task-loading under duress (mostly those involved with military training and tactics and construction management), so my ability to function with little to no decrease in performance while enduring the narcotic effects of breathing air at depth is commensurate with all other aspects of my life. I am not, however, blessed with efficient lungs and most divers will probably still be breathing their stage while I have already switched to back gas.

BTW- I suppose that the disparity (>30%) between some of our run times to the rock at the jump can be attributed to dropping the stage earlier, thereby ridding oneself of drag and the additional effort required to negotiate some of the tighter areas within the cave. Also, not running a reel would free up some of that time as well...surprised nobody mentioned that.

No worries Gator. I have yet to make a recreational dive on tri-mix. I really am going to try it sometime though.

I notice its effects when I am past 220'. From there on down, even I don't breathe air. Be prepared to empty your wallet when you start doing it regularly...

Never dove a tri-mix mixture, dove a Heliox mixture countless times.

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Originally Posted by Jim Wyatt

Sort of like when a guy says he drove home drunk as a wild Indian & made it home safely?

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Don't be a xenophobe, Jim. It's "as drunk as a wild native American." :rollguy

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Originally Posted by GatorCaver

I am blessed to be 75% ambidextrious, and have endured hundreds of batteries involving task-loading under duress (mostly those involved with military training and tactics and construction management), so my ability to function with little to no decrease in performance while enduring the narcotic effects of breathing air at depth is commensurate with all other aspects of my life. I am not, however, blessed with efficient lungs and most divers will probably still be breathing their stage while I have already switched to back gas.

BTW- I suppose that the disparity (>30%) between some of our run times to the rock at the jump can be attributed to dropping the stage earlier, thereby ridding oneself of drag and the additional effort required to negotiate some of the tighter areas within the cave. Also, not running a reel would free up some of that time as well...surprised nobody mentioned that.

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I agree that different divers have different skill sets, and I'd argue that some divers are pretty fricking impaired compared to others before they ever leave the surface. Depth just maginifies those already apparent differences. But everyone's mileage will differ and a limit that works for one diver may be exessive for another - and vice versa.

I know in flight training I did very well at task loading activities where for example during an instrument approach you may have to navigate in addition to maintaining general situation awareness, communicate on the radio tune both come and nav channels, fly the aircraft in heavy turbulence, deal with equipment failures and fly a partial panel approach and do it all with an instructor induced case of vertigo. Not everyone can manage it as well and still fly with the required degree of precision.

I'd love to see some solid research on task loading abilities at the surface and at depth and see how much is lost at depth and whether greater ability at the surface equates to greater ability at depth on air. An analogy here might be having to do multiplication and division in your head at depth - people who suck at math on the surface are probablyy going to have more problems at depth than say, Albert Einstein just due to the differneces in their inital unimpaired ability.

But theory aside, the fact is that regardless of anyone's ability at the surface, everyone is going to be impaired to some degree at depth and will experience a decrease in their ability to solve problems that may arise. In that regard, doing a dive to 185 ft in Hendlys Castle an air may be "safe" in terms of being able to complete it successfully, 1, 2, 3 or even 100 times. But the critical issue will be what happens when your ability to solve a problem at depth comes up just a little bit short due to your level of impairment on that dive. In that case, having a lower END may have made just enough of a difference to get you out alive.

Personally, I am just not comfortable ever going to an END greater than 150' regardless of the conditions and regardless of my abilities on the surface or underwater. In anything less than perfect conditions I am going to limit the END to something less than 130', in some cases a lot less than 130'. I find the older I get the more I learn and the more I appreciate the need to be both prudent and conservative.

Do whatever you feel is appropriate as its not my place to tell you how you choose to die, but please have the courtesy not to die in a cave as it threatens the ability of the rest of us to continue to access a number of cave systems. I suspect more than a few cave divers would probably be tempted to kick your lifeless corpse if you have a stupid attack, die and risk closing a cave.

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I agree that running a reel into P3 takes a few minutes. Unless you have a favorite rock it can take a minute or two to find one and running the line cleanly there takes a couple more minutes.

I am hoping when you say you were not running a reel that you are stating that you already had a primary reel in place from a previouse dive. If not, then it needs to be stated that P3 can be silted out in fairly short order and the siphon is not strong enough to clean the cavern out all that soon. The cavern also has lots of potential wrong turns once you get back to the start of the mainline, so exiting from the mainline to open water in zero viz is not a foregone conclusion. It's not a place I'd go without running a primary line.

Edit: I re-read post number and understand what you did. Yes, PIII is not PI and you definitely need to run a line. It could take a while to reverse engineer your exit from the mainline to OW and a safety reel might not have quite enough line to do it in truly zero viz.

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Originally Posted by DA Aquamaster

I'd love to see some solid research on task loading abilities at the surface and at depth and see how much is lost at depth and whether greater ability at the surface equates to greater ability at depth on air.

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I used to know someone who, when someone said they aren't narced at 100', would hand them four different-sized bolts and four corresponding nuts, in a ziploc bag. He would time them removing and assembling them at 10' and at 100'. He said the results changed a lot of people's minds.

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Originally Posted by GatorCaver

It could alternatively be construed to mean that it is not safe for some of the readers. I'm sure there are literally thousands of divers who have better skills than I in some fashion: be it buoyancy, propulsion, referencing, surveying, etc. I would wager that some of those same divers do not have the mental capacity to multi-task while in (what some consider) an impaired state. The level of impairment for some may be extraordinarily high compared to some of those whose tolerance for- and ability to function while under its influence- nitrogen narcosis is negligible.

Of course I'm being defensive, but did anyone expect otherwise when their rationale is questioned? By implying that my behavior is stupid, some have interjected an ad hominem argument where none was necessary. Let me return the favor: perhaps someone's reluctance to complete tasks because their cognitive abilities may be infinitesimal compared to other divers, coupled with their lack of civility when broaching the subject, leaves them with no other choice but to belittle those with which they disagree.

Ad hominem attacks do nothing to further the conversation, do they?

I am blessed to be 75% ambidextrious, and have endured hundreds of batteries involving task-loading under duress (mostly those involved with military training and tactics and construction management), so my ability to function with little to no decrease in performance while enduring the narcotic effects of breathing air at depth is commensurate with all other aspects of my life. I am not, however, blessed with efficient lungs and most divers will probably still be breathing their stage while I have already switched to back gas.

BTW- I suppose that the disparity (>30%) between some of our run times to the rock at the jump can be attributed to dropping the stage earlier, thereby ridding oneself of drag and the additional effort required to negotiate some of the tighter areas within the cave. Also, not running a reel would free up some of that time as well...surprised nobody mentioned that.

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They don't accomplish anything, but since you're violating the standards you were trained under (which have been presented to PSSP as guidelines to limit accidents) and posting about it, I think Jim might have felt the need to post to show we don't all do that. Remember, PSSP staff reads this board, and you're describing a dive very similar to one that was fatal at that exact location.

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Originally Posted by Jim Wyatt

Any dive in a cave deeper than 130 feet should be a trimix dive. Deep air in a cave to 185 feet is not smart.

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I second this.

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Originally Posted by Jim Wyatt

Sort of like when a guy says he drove home drunk as a wild Indian & made it home safely?

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Jim as someone who is part American Indian I have to take offence at this. But then again thinking about it being Italian, Irish and American Indian really does explain why I eat too much, drink too much and like to dance naked around camp fires. So I guess I really can't take offense. Never mind.

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Originally Posted by jj1987

, and you're describing a dive very similar to one that was fatal at that exact location.

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do you have more information to the mentioned accident?

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Originally Posted by MichaelAngelo

Jim as someone who is part American Indian I have to take offence at this. Never mind.

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My great grandmother was full blooded Cherokee.

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Originally Posted by huxley

do you have more information to the mentioned accident?

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i think that one is written up on the iucrr site

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Originally Posted by Jim Wyatt

Any dive in a cave deeper than 130 feet should be a trimix dive. Deep air in a cave to 185 feet is not smart.

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I agree with you Jim. And will take it further. Even in open water or wreck diving He is added to anything below 130. Even if its a little bit. A 20/30 or even a 20/20 mix has the same deco as air and there is no reason not to add it. Again I am not an instructor but this how I prefer to do it

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Originally Posted by MichaelAngelo

thinking about it being Italian, Irish and American Indian really does explain

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Not a lot of designated drivers in THAT family tree!

this thread offends my delicate sensibilities

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Originally Posted by Slüdge

Not a lot of designated drivers in THAT family tree!

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and for my kids you can add German southern baptise to the mix

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Originally Posted by jj1987

They don't accomplish anything, but since you're violating the standards you were trained under (which have been presented to PSSP as guidelines to limit accidents) and posting about it, I think Jim might have felt the need to post to show we don't all do that. Remember, PSSP staff reads this board, and you're describing a dive very similar to one that was fatal at that exact location.

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Yeah GC, that was retarded to do that dive on air. You should listen to JJ the Great. Wait, I was on that dive with you....damn!

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Originally Posted by WEPIV

I second this.

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Many people think cavediving in general is not smart.

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Originally Posted by MichaelAngelo

and for my kids you can add German southern baptise to the mix

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Wow! Talk about conflicted! Even just the German/Southern Baptist mix, but throw in the other three and you have a very troubled soul. I'm German/Irish/Scottish/Swiss and an ordained Baptist Deacon. I got drafted as a Deacon before they told me that that the church required that the ministerial staff practice total abstinence from alcohol. I served my first three year term dry and have been inactive since. When they can show me biblical evidence that Deacons shouldn't drink alcohol I'll serve again. I think it must have been the Baptists who started the phrase "for medicinal purposes".