Revisiting the old style DR reels

Im still using one as a primary. I and everyone else has birdneted it even being careful. It doesent happen on dry land because there is no water to float it over the drum. I wish the shaft was longer so I could insert a tethered cotter pin in it to remove the drum underwater. It would seem the tolerance between the drum and frame could be tighter and avoid all this. Im thinking of epoxying a piece of metal to the bottom of the frame right over the drum with feeler guage tolerances. There would have to be 2, one at the front and one the back but it would seem to work. Now why isnt the tolerances tighter to the drum from the factory? I like the reel for a primary but prefer a lower profile handle[sidewinder] to swim with. Any Mcgyvers out there with similar ideas for old reel improvement?

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Originally Posted by stairman

Any Mcgyvers out there with similar ideas for old reel improvement?

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Liberal application of a 8 pound sledge hammer and a new reel. (BTW, I have 3 of them)

I still use the one in Blueprint for Survival (page 8, I think), never had a bird nest with it :-D

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Originally Posted by OFG-1

Liberal application of a 8 pound sledge hammer and a new reel. (BTW, I have 3 of them)

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Does applying an 8 pound sledge hammer to the reels make you so happy you had to buy 3 reels??

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Originally Posted by RN

Does applying an 8 pound sledge hammer to the reels make you so happy you had to buy 3 reels??

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No, it made me so happy I bought three 8 pound sledge hammers.

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Originally Posted by OFG-1

Liberal application of a 8 pound sledge hammer and a new reel. (BTW, I have 3 of them)

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Does it have to be done by a liberal, or could a conservative handle it?

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Originally Posted by Half-Fast

Does it have to be done by a liberal, or could a conservative handle it?

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By definition, a conservative would want to conserve the reel. They would point out that just hoping that the new reel would be better would be more of the "Hopey-Changey" thing that is not working and keeping the economy down. They would want a study of ways to make new line that would not snag when using the reel. They would argue that smashing the snot out of your old reel would, while on one hand encourage small business that supplies your new reel, overall be wasteful, and represent big spending policies that they are against. It would be, in their view, too wasteful, and therefore anti christian, and that would get the entire religious right excited.

No, some things, like reel beatings, are better left to the liberals.

Maybe because the manufacturing process doesn't really allow for a tighter fit.

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Originally Posted by Marchand

Maybe because the manufacturing process doesn't really allow for a tighter fit.

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Anytime you "tighten up" tolerances on a manufactured item the costs go up...plain and simple.

get a salvo (light monkey) or halycyon, for the same price you get a incomparably better product.

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Originally Posted by phillip1

get a salvo (light monkey) or halycyon, for the same price you get a incomparably better product.

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Salvo = Barry Miller

Lightmonkey = Joel Clark & Corey Mearns

Salvo does NOT exist! Lightmonkey is NOT Salvo. I know 2 guys (at Lightmonkey) that would take extreme exception to this.

Ignore him, Walter, he's just looking for an opportunity to bash Dive Rite without mentioning their name.

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Originally Posted by Slüdge

Ignore him, Walter, he's just looking for an opportunity to bash Dive Rite without mentioning their name.

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It isn't Phillip I really have an issue with, it is everyone (selling lights, etc.) tying Lightmonkey and Salvo. THERE ARE NO TIES! Salvo lights were not made by Lightmonkey, etc.

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Originally Posted by OFG-1

By definition, a conservative would want to conserve the reel.
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No, some things, like reel beatings, are better left to the liberals.

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You're probably correct. Of course, under the "Cash for Clunker Reels" program, the lib would sieze money from all cave divers to subsidize your purchase of a new reel before compacting your old one. :)

I know nothing of this salvo light monkey issue, all I am saying is that a Halcyon or a Salvo (or whatever it's called now) are far superior to DR reels, for the same price.
My mistake but I thought that Salvo closed and re opened calling itself Light Monkey, this whole Halcyon vs Salvo thing I read about on the forum I could not care less about, they both make really good reels and lights that's all that matters to me, I will leave you guys in the know about this with the politics side of this.
I am not bashing DR just stating a fact, compare a DR reel side by side with one of the ones mentioned above and anyone will agree the DR ones are a joke.

I use some DR products and I find them to be really good, I have 4 DR RG3000 regs and I really like them a lot in fact if I am going to buy two more, they are super reliable and I beat the heck out of them too, I have 2 Nitek trios and 1 Nitek duo and I also really like them a lot.
DR makes some really good products but reels are definitely not one of them.
All the DR reels I ever had (3) fell apart very quickly, and I bought a DR sidewinder explo reel from DR thinking it looked to be better built than the old ones, I was wrong, the wind up knob fell off on the very first dive! and I paid like $170 or so for it too.
In addition the reel is super easy to birdnest, something you have to try hard to do with a Halcyon or Salvo (or whatever it is called now)

DR reels suck beyond belief considering the price. My old red primary is designated for use as a Kayak anchor now, until the day that the significant rust gets the better of it. As Phillip argues and I cannot agree with him more; Why would you buy a POS like that when you get something that not only works but is a really nice piece of engineering from Halcyon/Salvo/LM/Modern DR etc. Nobody can defend the DR reels. They are museum pieces.

Nobody has mentioned the LG reels?

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Originally Posted by vshearer

Nobody has mentioned the LG reels?

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The Larry Green/Ralph Hood reels are awesome, super smooth and enough room to unjam, if you do birdnest them.

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Originally Posted by SuPrBuGmAn

The Larry Green/Ralph Hood reels are awesome, super smooth and enough room to unjam, if you do birdnest them.

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++1

I agree, Thomas has one and it is great, very solid build and really easy to unjam, but anyway they are really hard to actually bird nest in the first place due to a good design.

Keep the line taut and you won't birdnest any reel.

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Originally Posted by Slüdge

Keep the line taut and you won't birdnest any reel.

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+1 Always seemed to work for me.

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Originally Posted by Line Squirrel

+1 Always seemed to work for me.

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Me too. I have been using DR reels for 15 yrs. Only problem has been user error, not keeping the line taut. No big deal to me.

Can you guys/girls keep the line taut going in the main spring entrance at Manatee? :roll:

Taught enough. The current actualy helps you there, if you pay out too much line the current carries it back so it doesn't bird nest.

When exploring and making blind tie offs in bad viz, then reeling in the same conditions, or backing out of a tight tunnel that does not go and reeling in, tie offs sometimes come off, soft rock etc.. it is very easy to birdnest a reel and especially easy with DR ones, don't give me this bull that no one has done it I don't believe it for a second.
It has nothing to do with how good you are at laying line, at some point you will birdnest a reel period, there is a huge difference between casually laying line from the entrance of a cave in good viz to the mainline and actually laying line, they have nothing in common other than ....line, so this "just keep it taught" and it wont happen stuff is complete bull, it will happen to everyone at some point.
The big difference between a 30 second inconvenience and having to cut a reel free is a good reliable well designed reel.
I have had to cut a reel free due to birdnesting and call a dive a few times and it was always a DR reel, they just are not well made or well designed.

I have found that the DR ones, once birdnested are really hard to undo underwater especially in zero viz. Try undoing a nicely birdnested DR reel in your own home sitting in your favorite chair in less than 5 mins, then try it in a cave in zero viz.
The Salvo, Halcyon (light Monkey or whatever it is) are really hard to birdnest in the first place, you would have to actually want to birdnest them as the quality of manufacturing allows for a precise tight design that does not allow line to pass between reel and handle, the LG reels have a different design that works really good, there is a lot of room between reel and handle so it is very easy to untangle should it ever birdnest.
The DR reels are so badly made that the line can slip between the reel and handle and the space is only slightly wider than #24 line so when it does start to birdnest if you don't catch it immediately and the line goes roud a few times good luck, even outside sitting in the back of my truck it takes a good five mins or so to untangle.
It is as though DR designed they're reels to be really hard to undo if they get birdnested.
Again to those of you who think I am bashing DR, I am not I am simply stating a fact that you all know is true, DR reels suck and are expensive for what they are too.
A good reliable well designed reel is an essential piece of gear, for any cave but especially when exploring or in bad viz caves.
I think DR is really taking customers for a ride with they're reels when they charge as much as a Salvo/Light Monkey (yeah, yeah I know!!) Halcyon or LG reel and for what? a cheap piece of plastic that looks ok for an SMB deployment in OW and falls apart very quickly.
However DR regs and dive computers are great I use them and really like them a lot.

"Always" may have been a poor choice. "Usually" would have been better.

Of course I've bird nested a reel here and there, but it's not often enough to be a major concern. I've never bird nested one bad enough to have to cut the line or bring it up in a big ball of spaghetti.

I have never birdnested a reel so bad that I needed to cut it, except DR ones, once the line has wound itself a few times around it is very hard to get it out and in a cave forget it.
Even after the dive sitting outside it takes a while to undo.
All my dive buddies here agree with me and we don't even use any DR reels anymore on any dives they are so bad.
Hey maybe I am super unlucky or I maybe suck so bad at undoing jammed reels but this has NEVER ever happened to me with other reels of the brands mentioned in my previous post.
I actually practice this in my pool, I jam reels and practice unjamming them underwater with no mask on, and all of them are fast and easy to undo except the DR ones.

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Originally Posted by FW

Can you guys/girls keep the line taut going in the main spring entrance at Manatee? :roll:

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Hehehehe, actually yes and more importantly have done it coming out. ;)

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Originally Posted by phillip1

When exploring and making blind tie offs in bad viz, then reeling in the same conditions, or backing out of a tight tunnel that does not go and reeling in, tie offs sometimes come off, soft rock etc.. it is very easy to birdnest a reel and especially easy with DR ones, don't give me this bull that no one has done it I don't believe it for a second.
It has nothing to do with how good you are at laying line, at some point you will birdnest a reel period, there is a huge difference between casually laying line from the entrance of a cave in good viz to the mainline and actually laying line, they have nothing in common other than ....line, so this "just keep it taught" and it wont happen stuff is complete bull, it will happen to everyone at some point.
The big difference between a 30 second inconvenience and having to cut a reel free is a good reliable well designed reel.
I have had to cut a reel free due to birdnesting and call a dive a few times and it was always a DR reel, they just are not well made or well designed.

I have found that the DR ones, once birdnested are really hard to undo underwater especially in zero viz. Try undoing a nicely birdnested DR reel in your own home sitting in your favorite chair in less than 5 mins, then try it in a cave in zero viz.
The Salvo, Halcyon (light Monkey or whatever it is) are really hard to birdnest in the first place, you would have to actually want to birdnest them as the quality of manufacturing allows for a precise tight design that does not allow line to pass between reel and handle, the LG reels have a different design that works really good, there is a lot of room between reel and handle so it is very easy to untangle should it ever birdnest.
The DR reels are so badly made that the line can slip between the reel and handle and the space is only slightly wider than #24 line so when it does start to birdnest if you don't catch it immediately and the line goes roud a few times good luck, even outside sitting in the back of my truck it takes a good five mins or so to untangle.
It is as though DR designed they're reels to be really hard to undo if they get birdnested.
Again to those of you who think I am bashing DR, I am not I am simply stating a fact that you all know is true, DR reels suck and are expensive for what they are too.
A good reliable well designed reel is an essential piece of gear, for any cave but especially when exploring or in bad viz caves.
I think DR is really taking customers for a ride with they're reels when they charge as much as a Salvo/Light Monkey (yeah, yeah I know!!) Halcyon or LG reel and for what? a cheap piece of plastic that looks ok for an SMB deployment in OW and falls apart very quickly.
However DR regs and dive computers are great I use them and really like them a lot.

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Brother get a grip. Laying line or having a casual dive in a cave can and is just as important to whoever is making the dive. I have a tub full of reels and some of them are DR reels. All of them can and will jam. I have seen a "Halcyon" style reel (not sure exactly who's it was) jammed pretty darn bad and that was on a dive to push new cave, so what. DR reels can be unjammed fairly quickly if a little time is spent figuring out an easy way to solve the problem. I have had people give me their DR reels from broken spools, which I appreciate. I honestly don't know what I do different but I have a few DR reels that are a couple of decades old, knock on wood, that have the first spools that came with them. I don't understand what causes them to crack but I have not had one happen to me even with the ones others have donated.

IMHO get a reel and practice with it. They all have their upsides and down sides. For me the "Halcyon" style from primary down are too small in the handle size for me due to my big arthritic mits. The exploration reel I have is large enough that it does not cramp my hands and works well. Heck I have one of the "unjammable" jump reels that is completely encased. I have found a way to jam it but then again it is fairly easy to fix as well.

Bobby

I agree all reels can and will jam at some point, but the DR ones are much easier to jam in the first place and way harder to unjam, if a DR is really birdnested I challenge you to unjam it even outside in the open in less than 5mins I just do not believe anyone who claims they can do it, I have jammed a few and there is no way you can do it in less than at least 5mins so don't lie.
I totally agree practice with reels, along with many other things I practice reels jams a lot in my pool over and over and I got really good at it, I have tried with DR ones and they are just a hassle and much easier to jam and way harder to unjam compared to other reels.

The DR reels as I have posted previously are very poorly designed and the line will get caught between the spool and handle super easy and will jam in there nice and tight, the Halcyon/Salvo reels are much more precise in manufacture and the line is very hard to actually get in there.

Hey I don't mean to bash DR in any way as I have said before they make some great products many of which I use, but of all the reels I have used or seen DR rank as the lowest in quality and design and highest or as high as the most expensive reels out there.
All and I mean all 4 of the DR reels I have bought have fallen apart in less than 20 dives, one on the very first dive!

Can you truly look at a DR reel and honestly say it's even comparable to a Salvo or LG?
Even the OW plastic reels used by the LDS here to send up SMB's seem to be better quality.
I would have no problem with DR reels being what they are if they were sold for much less, but I find it incredible that they actually sell they're reels for the same price as a really high quality Halcyon, Salvo. LG reel.

Another really good quality reel with a big handle worth checking out are Reef Scuba reels, they have the traditional handle and are really tough and super high quality, all aluminum build, and you can unscrew the entire spool if it jams and simply pull out the loops and screw it back. Thomas has two and they are indestructible.

I mean a reel should be a piece of gear that last for years and years and be super solid, no?

OK they jam easily if any slack gets in the line and pulling the spool underwater isnt an option because I know the c clip is gonna be deep six, so I wind the line around the body and surface. Once on land I can unjam it in way less than 5 minutes, more like 1 minute unless the c clip goes flying and gets lost. As far as falling apart I dont see that happening to the old style, maybe a sidewinder I dont have any of them. I do think they should have made the spool so if line spills over it can be easily pulled free or make it bigger so it wont pull thru but they didnt. Have I cussed the reel? oh hell yea, did I cuss Dive-rite? nope. Im still gonna try to modify the old primary to be more user friendly and make it much harder to spill and jam.

I've had a couple dive rite reels come apart in the water. I only use them for towing flags now, and since then I've actually gotten pretty profficient at catching the parts mid-water, in surge, and putting it all back together :P

I use a Salvo in the caves.

I like the LG/RH reels too though.

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Originally Posted by stairman

unless the c clip goes flying and gets lost.

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Been there, done that?

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Originally Posted by phillip1

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Another really good quality reel with a big handle worth checking out are Reef Scuba reels, they have the traditional handle and are really tough and super high quality, all aluminum build, and you can unscrew the entire spool if it jams and simply pull out the loops and screw it back. Thomas has two and they are indestructible.

I mean a reel should be a piece of gear that last for years and years and be super solid, no?.........

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Recommended them in a previous thread...excellent reel and yess have taken one apart, on a night dive, in over 80fsw while wearing 5ml gloves.... and I have trouble keeping my keys separated.........

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Originally Posted by Bobby

Hehehehe, actually yes and more importantly have done it coming out. ;)

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I have been a witness of that ... and he was also on the rebreather. Hate you Bobby!

I have learned the hard way from a tough teacher: if you cannot use my reel you cannot dive with me. So even with having small, girly hands, I still have a DR reel as primary.. and have a lot of fun when other people dive with me and jam the heck out of it.

Plus I do not believe in "unjammable" reels! I do believe in practicing and keeping skills sharp though..