I am looking for a good or improved ear beer recipe.
Is a 50/50 solution of isopropyl alcohol & white vinegar still what most reccomend?
Just thought I would see anyone has learned anything I missed.
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I am looking for a good or improved ear beer recipe.
Is a 50/50 solution of isopropyl alcohol & white vinegar still what most reccomend?
Just thought I would see anyone has learned anything I missed.
I use 1/3 each hydrogen peroxide, isopropyl alcohol, and distilled white vinegar. I also use a few drops before each dive and a few drops after each dive. I've heard various reasons why not to use peroxide and why I shouldn't put it in before the dive, but here's the most important thing: if I do as I said I NEVER have ear problems. If I don't, I virtually ALWAYS have problems.
That's good enough for me.
Works for me, although I get the 90% alcohol rather than the 70% or whatever it is.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Howie
That's what DAN recommends. And Marbry's right--isopropyl comes in something like 3 percentages. Get the 91%. I believe they say you can add some glycerin to avoid quite so much drying of your ear tissue. But I thought you *wanted* drying, so I skip the glycerin.Quote:
Originally Posted by Howie
I don't put hydrogen peroxide in because DAN doesn't have it on the ear beer recipe. But I used to use it to get rid of wax. I had no apparent problems. But it isn't on DAN's list, so I don't use it for the ear beer.
(3) parts 91% isopropyl alcohol, (1) part white vinegar. I add a couple drops of Glycerin to keep ears from drying out but not necessary. You're going to have to hunt around for it but the 91% isopropyl alcohol rather than the 70% is key I believe.
50/50 vinegar and isopranol alcohol works for me. Many forget to do it before the dive but it helps to clean the canals before water pressure pushes any bacteria further in from what I understand, then of course after the dive inwhich 1 minute, then drain works for me.
I get bad infections if I do not use ear beer. 50/50 alcohol & vinegar. This is what my NOAA diving medical officer physician friend suggests I use. It works as I never get infections if I use it post dive.
+1 on this one, it was, after all, concocted by an actual dive doctor...Quote:
Originally Posted by Squirrel Girl
Been using it for years, never failed so far....
Dive safe,
Celia
I got this from Cheryl and never thought it would work but it does. I hardly ever get ear infections, but when I do she just pours straight peroxide in my ears, lets it sit for about 5 mins, rinses it out and it works like a charm. Showed it to Allen when he got one and he was just amazed with the results. YMMV...... :)
Safe diving,
Rich
Wow! He got results from just being *showed* it?? ;) That's really powerful ear beer! :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich
40:40:20 of rubbing alcohol, white vinegar, and glycerin. I've had good luck with it keeping the infection down. But don't look to be getting no dates from it due to the smell. I use a contact solution dropper correctly marked with EAR BEER. lol
Ken
Thanks everyone.
My mustard bottle is empty again, so it's time to make a new batch and thought I would ask around a little before I refilled it. I think I will try it with a little glycerin this time. I have had good luck in the past just using the 50/50 mix but sometimes I would still have that funny feeling in my ears the next morning. Thats probably caused by the drying effect of the alcohol. I also think I will try using it before a dive. I haven't tried that before but I can see where it would help too.
Thanks again, and safe diving...
Howie
i think i took it a little too literally..... since i have been using actual beer :(
http://www.deepcaves.net/smilies/roflguy.gifQuote:
Originally Posted by Scott
50/50 91% isopropyl (available at Walgreen's) and white vinegar works for me. Commercially-avaliable "SwimEar" (95% isopropyl +5% anhydrous glycerine) also works, but is $5.00 for a couple ounces. FWIW, Hydrogen peroxide's major degradation byproduct is water, which you're trying to eliminate from your ear canal. The bubbling action probably agitates the water, etc. in the canal enough to promote drying, but it does nothing to restore the naturally acidic pH of the canal (approx. 5.5) which helps prevent bacterial infection.
As far as prevention goes, don't use Q-Tips or similar products (bobby pins, pens, brass 0-ring pick, jackhammers, etc.) to clean the ear canal. The protective wax covering and underlying skin is very thin and abrasion of same is a setup for a nasty infection.
You left out car keys - does this mean they're okay?Quote:
Originally Posted by divindoc
I was thinking the very same thing - you beat me to it!Quote:
Originally Posted by Slüdge
Not to mention the additional benefit - with a thin lubricating layer of earwax on my truck keys, my locks never freeze up! :)
Mike
A standard 50/50 mix of alcohol and vinegar will work well for the typical Joe Sixpack making average dives.
The more sophisticated diver, the man or woman of refined tastes, acustomed to the finer things of life, will want something a step above. I'll offer, then, a few suggestions for selecting an appropriate ear wine instead of the common ear beer.
For diving in the clear, sparkling waters of Florida's springs and caves, a good chardonnay is the obvious choice. Some divers seem to prefer a sparkling wine, perhaps even a real Champagne, and while it's true that the bubbling effect seems to help with the ear cleaning process, the dangers of opening the pressurized cork add an unnecessary risk to an already hazardous activity.
In darker cave systems, or low vis situations such as where the river has backed up tannic water into the cave, something a bit hardier is called for, though a white is still in order. A sauvignon blanc is a good choice for these situations.
In cold saltwater situations, I suggest moving to the reds. A merlot can be a good selection, as can the better zinfandels.
Sump diving, of course, demands the earthy scents of a good cabernet, rich in tannins.
Maintaining a good ear wine cellar will, unfortunately, add considerable expense to the already pricey activity of cave diving. The additional satisfaction, though, of knowing that you've carefully selected exactly the right varietal and vintage to pour into your ears will make it all worthwhile.
Too funny half-fast...
About 25+ years ago when I was having clearing issues, an ENT doc told me to use 50% distilled water and 50% white vinegar which I have with no issues.
No inner ear yeast infections? :-DQuote:
Originally Posted by Scott
+1Quote:
Originally Posted by Slüdge
The only addition is 3 or 4 drops of glycerin to the 3x brew to prevent drying the ear canal out. This was recommended in the middle of a cave diving trip by a DAN on call physician in addition to Mucinex (Guiaffessen sp? or something like that). Ultimately, I found that Mucinex DM works really well, seems similar to Sudafed, but without the rebound or CNS issues. Did alot of research on the subject. Like Russell, if I don't I do and if I do I don't. I could not dive the way I do today were it not for this.
The doc said nothing could live through this brew...said to hold it in each ear for 5 minutes after every dive + 1 Mucinex in the morning for every day of diving +/-5 days...I found 30 seconds or so for the brew, a couple of times after each dive did the trick plus the Mucinex.
Works well for me.
Does this mean that I should stop using the Liquid Plumber?
I like the bubbling of the peroxide in the ear. So some of my alc/vin solutions have it, some don't. Not sure if it makes a difference, but it makes the task slightly more enjoyable :)
Chris
Me, too! :)Quote:
Originally Posted by cmalinowski
My mistake! Oh Yeah, car keys (especially the kind with teeth on each side of the key) really work great at getting out that last stubborn bit of wax that's keeping you from getting an infection - and if you push really hard, you can yank out that pesky eardrum that's always causing problems clearing, get that sucker bronzed and let it swing from your rearview as a reminder of your last (ever) pleasurable dive.Quote:
Originally Posted by Slüdge
Thank you all, I needed a chuckle today and this thread did the trick! :rollguy
How did the Mucinex DM affect narcosis? Or was this not a factor for the dive you were on? My one experience with taking a decongestant like this seemed to indicate that I was far more prone to getting narced.Quote:
Originally Posted by addexdiver
addexdiver, you're mixing middle ear treatment (Mucinex, for decongestant effect), with external ear infection prophylaxis. Mucinex may help prevent middle ear squeeze, but won't do squat for ear canal issues. Not saying you can't do both (though I personally have never been impressed with Mucinex - Afrin, aka oxymetolazone spray - is more effective for me) but to each his/her own.Quote:
Originally Posted by addexdiver
Yup! That is what I do - I (mix) do them both...Quote:
Originally Posted by divindoc
I live in upstate New York and get down 3-5 times a year for usually 10-14 days at a time...and so I hit it pretty hard when I am there (since I can't spread it out like the locals). Usually do only one dive per day, but they tend to be longer and a bit more involved. I was getting ear infections every trip until this - has not happened since. I got to know the symptoms pretty well, and when I get lazy, I can feel one coming on. I do a fair bit of deco and might push the O2 clock a bit. Since Afrin/Sudafed are recognized CNS stimulants (quite effective in the ears though, until rebound kicks in), they are an option I personally feel are not an option. I really like the DM version - in the ear area, it feels alot like Sudafed/Afrin...and I believe from what I read on it, that the DM may act opposite to CNS issues, potentially alot more diver freindly. On occasion, I have stayed at Holiday Inn Express, but maybe someone who is more knowledgable can comment on this?
To Red Hat's question - have not noticed a narcosis difference and for some of the dives I do, that definitely could be an issue (adv mix). I reliably narc at 160ish on air during the working part of a dive...makes bottle drops a bit more fun though. :)
Mucinex tends to keep you drained (and the DM dries me out - similar to the Afrin) and reduces inner ear blockage up the tubes - ear beer evicts the bugs. Repeated and extended exposures to cool water still tends to build up and cause clearing issues for me though - then a day off is in order.
What do you think of Boric Acid (eg. something like Otic Domeboro) as an alternative to White Vinegar (with which I have an "intolerance" issue in strong quantities)? I found a recipie for a 1:16 ratio of Boric Acid powder to 70% Isopropyl Alcohol.Quote:
Originally Posted by divindoc
Boric acid is a good alternative to white vinegar. Re-acidification of the ear canal (normal pH approx. 5.5) seems essential to prevention of external ear infections, in addition to the drying effect of the isopropyl alcohol.Quote:
Originally Posted by mag3
I keep a bottle of Everclear 190 handy and use white vinegar as diluent for my ears and sugar free red bull as dil for treating my throat (the blue gatorade is also a nice mixer for the throat version). Unlike Sludge I only treat after diving, never before. Note also please that Everclear 190 is illegal in Florida although the lesser 151 proof version is available. You can get the 190 in Alabama and several other states. Enjoy. Bill
I am confused with the mucinex DM. Isn't that a cough suppressant and expectorant? I guess it could help on the mucus side of the house, but isn't the expectorant supposed to loosen up the mucus in the lungs to get you to hack it out?
Does this stuff smell any better? Is it proven to be safe? I'm willing to try anything to get away from the nasty vinegar smell.Quote:
Originally Posted by divindoc
I use Boric Acid powder. There's no smell at all, really. And whatever odor there may be is masked by the Isopropyl Alcohol. I can't answer your other question. I haven't had any trouble when I use it. But when I do mix it, I check the pH with pH paper to make sure it's not too strong.Quote:
Originally Posted by bigken462
There are formulae for Boric Acid Ear beer on the net.
That is how I understand it as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by cmalinowski
I was told the expectorant breaks up mucus throughout (and found that yup, it sure seems to) and that helps keep you drained out, therefore your tubes don't have anything to plug them up. For whatever reason, I found that the DM version seems to dry you out as well, so it feels a bit like sudafed does + I have found it doesn't seem to rebound...I'm not a doctor, just a guinea pig...but maybe the drying out is how it suppresses coughing? Does make some sense I guess since if you dry out, there is less to tickle the throat. In practice, it works well enough for me and I don't have to worry about any CNS issues.
Like I said, used to have ear infections every trip - now none since using "Ear Beer" (the Sludge version + a few drops of glycerin) and Mucinex DM.
Yes and Yes. Little hard data is available re: safety and efficacy in diving. As with most medications, drug companies aren't about to fund studies proving safety and efficacy (FDA requirements for prescribing indications) under hyperbaric conditions - the market is simply too small to justify the expense.Quote:
Originally Posted by cmalinowski
I haven't looked at DAN's stance on Dextromethorphan (the DM in Mucinex DM) but I would be cautious using it when diving as it acts on the central nervous system (specifically the brainstem) to suppress coughing.
IIRC, the smell is fairly neutral. My kids got so used to getting the 50/50 mixture of isopropyl and vinegar that they call it "salad ears".Quote:
Originally Posted by bigken462
The other thing is, with Boric Acid powder in solution, I like to check the pH continuously. As the Isopropyl evaporates over time (as evidenced by powder residue around the bottle neck/cap), the acid concentration gets a little stronger. I wouldn't keep it beyond one season (ie. I'd make a new batch every season).Quote:
Originally Posted by divindoc
What is the correct MOD for Ear Beer? Do the alcohol and vinegar percentages make a difference? Where can I get an Ear Beer blending card?Quote:
Originally Posted by bigken462
Most non-rednecks do not recognize the critical difference, but pickup truck keys are approved for this procedure while car keys are definitely NOT and can cause harm.Quote:
Originally Posted by Slüdge
The Foxworthy Institute of Redneck Health Research is still exploring the efficacy of SUV keys.
33/33/33
Distilled Water/Alcohol/Vinegar
I don't think you are supposed to do it BEFORE, because you don't want to dry out your ears, or strip any wax (it's there for a reason).
I'm sure this works, but I never understood the rationale for adding water (distilled or otherwise) to the mix. The whole idea is the get water out of the ear canal, not put it back in. If you're concerned about excessive drying, throw 5% glycerine into the mix. The 50/50 ratio of 91% isopropyl/white vinegar has always worked for me and my kids.Quote:
Originally Posted by Benderr
Always works for me too.Quote:
Originally Posted by divindoc
I think the thought process was to use distilled water (distilled=no germs in it) to dilute the vinegar/alcohol since the ear may be sensitive. I don't use it and am only speculating.Quote:
Originally Posted by divindoc
Chris
I find the 50-50 solution burns a little bit, but it's a small price to pay.Quote:
Originally Posted by cmalinowski
Distilled water has no germs in it as it's being produced (the steam would kill germs). But after that, all bets are off. Since it's not meant to be sterile, germs can be in the jug the water comes in. Germs can be on the rim of the jug. And there are germs in your ear to begin with. The (distilled) water will just help those babies out. The alcohol, on the other hand, will kill the germs.
The vinegar is mostly water anyway - it's only 3-5% acetic acid.
I use the 50/50 white vinegar/isopropyl alcohol 91% - seems to work fine. I used to get an ear infection about once a year, and haven't had one since using the ear beer religiously after every dive and then 5 minutes in each ear in the evening of a diving day.
Mike
It's that acid that makes the solution unhealthy for germs -- pH around 3. Distilled water is only slightly acidic with a pH of ~6... not nearly low enough to harm the germs.Quote:
Originally Posted by MORGAN
Yeah - that's why I think it's inadvisable to add more water as mentioned in post #43 and diminish the acidity - when I put ear beer in my ears I want those germs to die! Die, germs! Die! (Sorry, got carried away... :) )Quote:
Originally Posted by Squirrel Girl
Mike