Old Timer's stories

I have had the chance to meet several of the Old Timer's during the last couple of years. Each had a story or history to tell that I didn't know about. So much of the history of our sport (if you can call it that, I persoanally think that's like saying polor explorers are involved in the sport of dog mushing) will be lost with the passing and or lack of contact with these men and women. It's not like baseball where it has all been recorded in public. Forrest has done some interesting articles lately that talk about some of the first meetings and dives but I think there is a lot more that is not being told. The Peacock book was a great step in the right direction.

What I would like to do is start collecting the oral and written history of cave diving. I may not ever do anything with it other than pass it on to someone more qualified than I am to write it all up but I think it needs to be done.

So, If you have a "Old timer's story" or story of original exploration that has not been written up or notes for that book you forgot to finish then please contact me. If you know of an 'old timer' who is no longer diving that I can contact then please let me know. Cynthia Butler 352-378-4579 [email protected] Those old timers that know me plan on meeting with me and talking nice into the recorder. Beer will be provided as needed.

Thanks for doing this Cindy - I personally find these stories (the ones I have heard and/or read anyway...) fascinating! Alot of us who came in their footsteps would love to be able to gain a greater appreciation of their early contributions and experiences. So, "mature" cavers, PLEASE don't be shy!

JB

Turn 50 this year, feel 40 and act 30 :-D . I remember standing at the edge of the water (I do not recall a dock) at the entrance of the eye with my oldest brother in 1976 (I am pretty sure) and saw some creatures from the black lagoon emerge from the depths of a hole in the ground. At 21 years old (being a seasoned open water diver! ha!) I fervently stated to my brother that I would never do any diving like that! My oldest brother looked at me and said "Lil bro NEVER say NEVER. He was right! Finished my cave training in the late 80's after becoming completely hooked in 76. By the way the cave divers that exited the eye that night have written books and are even more of an old timer. My how time flies by.

Horse collar BCs, octo on standard length hose, 2 lights per diver- chem lights count, right?, wet suit, no hood, double 72s from the Thunderball movie, wet cell 7.2v nicads driving 6v 30 watt aircraft landing light, no admission fees, no flush toliets, air deco on navy air tables for deco longer than the dive... ah, the good old days.

How about 1 12v light each diver, 1 reel for the team, a 72 steel tank, no horsecollar bc, strong flutter kick or tennis shoes, and you turned when half your air was gone. Oh yeah: and we never forgot our snorkles

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Originally Posted by Cindy

I have had the chance to meet several of the Old Timer's during the last couple of years. Each had a story or history to tell that I didn't know about. So much of the history of our sport (if you can call it that, I persoanally think that's like saying polor explorers are involved in the sport of dog mushing) will be lost with the passing and or lack of contact with these men and women. It's not like baseball where it has all been recorded in public. Forrest has done some interesting articles lately that talk about some of the first meetings and dives but I think there is a lot more that is not being told. The Peacock book was a great step in the right direction.

What I would like to do is start collecting the oral and written history of cave diving. I may not ever do anything with it other than pass it on to someone more qualified than I am to write it all up but I think it needs to be done.

So, If you have a "Old timer's story" or story of original exploration that has not been written up or notes for that book you forgot to finish then please contact me. If you know of an 'old timer' who is no longer diving that I can contact then please let me know. Cynthia Butler 352-378-4579 [email protected] Those old timers that know me plan on meeting with me and talking nice into the recorder. Beer will be provided as needed.

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Cindy we must think a like. I too have been fortuate to dive with many of the "old timers" and hear stories and understand the evolution of cave diving. I am doing a section in UWS called "Cave Diver's Spotlight" that will in effect be collecting some of this oral history and placing it in print. I have collected information from several people already this you'll see in print,and I am going to great efforts to contact some cave divers that long since departed the sport,but played an important role.Something else that needs to be done is collect some of the underwater and topside pictures that these old timers have,scan them,and archive them. I have seen some old pictures and slides that provide an incredible history of cave diving.

I'm not an old timer but even I can remember the days when the CDS convention was held at the Branford Elementary School and the Friday night social the old cavers would get drunk start telling stories and then take off to go diving about 11... :wink:

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Originally Posted by Gary

I'm not an old timer but even I can remember the days when the CDS convention was held at the Branford Elementary School and the Friday night social the old cavers would get drunk start telling stories and then take off to go diving about 11... :wink:

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Those were some good conventions-good memories.

I got certified as a cave diver in 1973 by NACD. Then went through a NACD Instructor training course in 1975, Sheck Exley ran it, Gene Melton was a staff instructor. John Zumrick was one of my fellow candidates. We did a 1000 feet downstrean at Thunderhole as a Graduation dive...all on air...deco on air. There were no other gas choices.

My rig was double 100's with a harness connected to the bands. The BC was a US divers BC II - I added a power inflator after a few months. I carried 2 Q-lights as backups. Main light was a 100 watt halogen bulb powered by wet NiCads. We charged them off the car alternator in about 15 minutes..had to add a lot of Potassium Hydroxide to the cells. Burn time on a good charge was 45-50 mins. I saw more than one explode when the alligator clips slipped off the terminals & arc the hydrogen gas...what a show.

My regulators were US divers & we had a machinist machine an adaptor to allow more than 1 LP port. The manifold was a "Benjamin" valve with no crossover. I paid $65 for the manifold, sold by Nemrod.

My reel was made by Frank Martz & my light made by Bill Schenck..who based his construction on Franks' lights.

We could camp at Ginnie for days on end and rarely see another human...and rarely ever left alone by the monster mosquitoes.

Sometimes we dived beyond where the grate is -- it was a tight dive & silty. Later on I helped install the grate.

I can tell more if folks really want to hear it.

I really, REALLY want to hear it. Everywhere that I have been or might be likely to go, someone else has been. Since I know that I am not the first, hearing stories of the first few will have to do. Tight & silty past the grate @ Ginnie? That is a lot of flow to be tight, and sounds like it would make for a good telling. How many times haven't I kicked up to the grate there and wondered what was on the other side?

The current argument about line placement? How trivial it might seem to those who never dove with an established mainline back "in the day". Gawd, but you have got me interested! Write a book, I promise I'll buy it!

Check out the UWS this month. Kelly has an article that will be the first of many on the history of cave diving. Great minds work alike, it was already in the works! lol! We will be working together will Bill on continuing to collect data. So Old timers, pull out those log books, we want to hear your stories! Cindy :)

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Originally Posted by Jim Wyatt

I can tell more if folks really want to hear it.

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Good stuff!! Bring it on :D

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Originally Posted by Jim Wyatt

Sometimes we dived beyond where the grate is -- it was a tight dive & silty. Later on I helped install the grate.

I can tell more if folks really want to hear it.

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Then I have to add you to my list along with Fishback, A.J. , Mount, Bob Wray.... the usual group of suspects.

(By the way, since you helped put it in, tell me how to get it out)

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Originally Posted by OFG-1

(By the way, since you helped put it in, tell me how to get it out)

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Why would you want to take it out? There were several fatalities in those low tunnels, and would have been more if the grate wasn't put in.

Maybe a gate instead, for qualified sidemount divers??

Still, pretty boring back in there.

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Originally Posted by BillBowden

Horse collar BCs, octo on standard length hose, 2 lights per diver- chem lights count, right?, wet suit, no hood, double 72s from the Thunderball movie, wet cell 7.2v nicads driving 6v 30 watt aircraft landing light, no admission fees, no flush toliets, air deco on navy air tables for deco longer than the dive... ah, the good old days.

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http://www.pbase.com/eanx/vintage

left hand pic, probably 1981...modified horsecollar, 2nd hand Skiles broomstick light, note early-adopter helmet...

right hand pic, '84...moved up to modified SeaQuest Vest...Disco-era stripes (probably on road to Lafayette...SURE miss Green and Snake sinks!)

Remember Ginnie being "free" on Wednesday nights??

Norm

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Originally Posted by FW

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Originally Posted by OFG-1

(By the way, since you helped put it in, tell me how to get it out)

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Why would you want to take it out? There were several fatalities in those low tunnels, and would have been more if the grate wasn't put in.

Maybe a gate instead, for qualified sidemount divers??

Still, pretty boring back in there.

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Forrest, If you recall, the fatalities were mostly OW divers or no certification divers. No lights, no lines, and they found the soft walls in the back or the silt on the floor.

I may be the only one that liked that dive. (It was one of my original cave training dives) Yeah, in the back its a little low and silty and the walls are soft, but the first few hundred feet are really pretty, and pretty big. We had a class in the front end, 4 divers, two instructors, all backmount ( it was '75) and we did not trash it.

I could deal with a gate. But using the logic that, if there are fatalities, a grate is a good thing, how many dive sites would be left?

Old timer's gear -

belly bags anyone?

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Originally Posted by dogwatch

Old timer's gear -

belly bags anyone?

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Wasn't it called a Raliegh or Bayliegh or something like that?

By the time we duct taped the neck of a horsecollar down, that was PRETTY much what we had...I managed to score a good-condition SeaQuest Rough Water h-collar last year on eBay...probably keep it stock...

Ever sew D-rings with dental floss, and a sailmaker's needle and palm??

or ever pour lead into the top of a hard-plastic backplate?

Norm

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Originally Posted by normblitch

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Originally Posted by dogwatch

Old timer's gear -

belly bags anyone?

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Wasn't it called a Raliegh or Bayliegh or something like that?

By the time we duct taped the neck of a horsecollar down, that was PRETTY much what we had...I managed to score a good-condition SeaQuest Rough Water h-collar last year on eBay...probably keep it stock...

Ever sew D-rings with dental floss, and a sailmaker's needle and palm??

or ever pour lead into the top of a hard-plastic backplate?

Norm

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Norm, it was a Brawley pillow. Developed by Ed Brawley. Seatec was the last ones to sell any of them, then they were all custom made. The duct tape didn't work, Norm. We had to use zip ties.

When I took my cavern class, my instructor introduced us to some of the old timers at dinner in Lake City - the night ended in what was very close to a gunfight (nobody fired, but there were guns being pointed in the parking lot). Those were some crazy dudes! I'd love to hear their stories.

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Originally Posted by OFG-1

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Originally Posted by normblitch

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Originally Posted by dogwatch

Old timer's gear -

belly bags anyone?

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Wasn't it called a Raliegh or Bayliegh or something like that?

By the time we duct taped the neck of a horsecollar down, that was PRETTY much what we had...I managed to score a good-condition SeaQuest Rough Water h-collar last year on eBay...probably keep it stock...

Ever sew D-rings with dental floss, and a sailmaker's needle and palm??

or ever pour lead into the top of a hard-plastic backplate?

Norm

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Norm, it was a Brawley pillow. Developed by Ed Brawley. Seatec was the last ones to sell any of them, then they were all custom made. The duct tape didn't work, Norm. We had to use zip ties.

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The shot of me in the Ballroom disproves that...it WAS restricted with duct tape...I'd have been afraid of the wire-ties cutting into what passed for a bladder back then...<g>

nhb

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Originally Posted by Al

When I took my cavern class, my instructor introduced us to some of the old timers at dinner in Lake City - the night ended in what was very close to a gunfight (nobody fired, but there were guns being pointed in the parking lot). Those were some crazy dudes! I'd love to hear their stories.

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AFAIR, there was an affectation for large and viscious dogs in the truck/van as well....<g>

Norm

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Originally Posted by "FW

Still, pretty boring back in there.

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FW is right on...there is not a lot to see back in there.....lotta clay silt & tight passages.

When the rivers drops, this old dinosaur diver has access to the Green Sink system if you want to go there.
Lee

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Originally Posted by lonestarfl

When the rivers drops, this old dinosaur diver has access to the Green Sink system if you want to go there.
Lee

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Lee, are you talkin' upstream from Green and the Green to Snake Siphon?

I am SO in...

Norm

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Originally Posted by normblitch

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Originally Posted by lonestarfl

When the rivers drops, this old dinosaur diver has access to the Green Sink system if you want to go there.
Lee

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Lee, are you talkin' upstream from Green and the Green to Snake Siphon?

I am SO in...

Norm

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I have access to some of the upstream sinks and a traverse to Snake and Green can easily be accomplished.
I remember when Little River was a "sneak" dive and nothing in Tallahassee was except Wakulla and Uno. I remember when Madison was free 24/7 and I shared the basin with locals washing their hair. Peacock was a quagmire of dirt trails frequented by squatters as much as cavers.
I started cave diving in the late 1970's with steel 104's, a custom made "Bob Duncan" light with a 7.2v wet Nicad battery pack as big as a stage bottle over-driving a 6v 100w sealed beam. Two chrome/brass Conshelf 14's, wet suit, jacket BC and Jet Fins.
I remember sitting at NACD board meetings with Steve Gerrard, Milledge Murphy, Dayton Saltsman, and Parker Turner...I miss Parker still.
Lee

In the late '60s we used clorox bottles for buoyancy compensation. We'd cut off the top, tie a rope to the handle and to the first stage/tank block, run it under our arm, and blow in or release air as needed. I dove Cherokee Sink near Tallahassee one night using my newly acquired light (handmade with a 30 watt sealed beam bulb, a 12 volt motorcycle battery, and plexiglass glued around the battery for strength) and a plastic 5 gallon jerry can instead of my 1 quart clorox bottle. It is amazing at how quickly one can unintentionally ascend when he loses control of his jerry can. I imagine the depth gauge that slipped off my wrist is still in the bottom silt somewhere.

I graduated from the clorox bottle to a safety vest (the kind you blow into to fill) and learned another important diving lesson while in the middle of the sulfide layer in Hospital Hole--don't take your regulator out of your mouth while in the middle of a layer of sulfide. The need for buoyancy control is not worth the taste.

I recall a fellow by the name of Mr. Wray & one of his employees, following my brother, his buddy, & myself over to the Orange grove to see what we were up to that first winter day, about a millenium ago. I won't tell you what year that was, but I remember vivedly of the two of them following us around from dive site to dive site, just to see what we were doing-! Oh, & by the way, my brother & his buddy had recently been CDS certified by S. Exley, so I evidently was in good hands, right-! Intersesting, that my brother doesn't dive any longer, but here I is-! Like the rabbit that keeps on going-! and going....& going-! :smt033

Great stories guys! We are really fortunate to be in a sport where most of the founders are still around. I'm hoping we can get most of the history recorded before we lose it forever. I'll be getting back soon on how it can be handled. In the meantime I may come up with one or more of my own. Now an old time cave diver but stories of original exploration of a cave system or two. We need to not only document our past but continue to record what is happening now so the divers in the future will have access to all this information. Cindy Butler

This is great! I enjoyed reading all these little snips of time. A full book woul be excellent. I'm sure everyone in the sport would agree.

Jason

this is great I have only been caving for a couple years and am still only intro but I have really enjoyed all the stories....thanks for sharing your experience, knowledge, and memories!!!! :D

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Originally Posted by DKKearns

In the late '60s we used clorox bottles for buoyancy compensation. We'd cut off the top, tie a rope to the handle and to the first stage/tank block, run it under our arm, and blow in or release air as needed. I dove Cherokee Sink near Tallahassee one night using my newly acquired light (handmade with a 30 watt sealed beam bulb, a 12 volt motorcycle battery, and plexiglass glued around the battery for strength) and a plastic 5 gallon jerry can instead of my 1 quart clorox bottle. It is amazing at how quickly one can unintentionally ascend when he loses control of his jerry can. I imagine the depth gauge that slipped off my wrist is still in the bottom silt somewhere.

I graduated from the clorox bottle to a safety vest (the kind you blow into to fill) and learned another important diving lesson while in the middle of the sulfide layer in Hospital Hole--don't take your regulator out of your mouth while in the middle of a layer of sulfide. The need for buoyancy control is not worth the taste.

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Do you by any chance have any PICTURES of the Clorox / Jerry can BC's?

While I just missed that stage of the History, I DO have drawings of these in my first Cave text by Tom Mount...I have a group of young Turk DIR types inS FL who REFUSE to believe it was ever done...

Norm

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Originally Posted by Cindy

Great stories guys! We are really fortunate to be in a sport where most of the founders are still around. I'm hoping we can get most of the history recorded before we lose it forever. I'll be getting back soon on how it can be handled. In the meantime I may come up with one or more of my own. Now an old time cave diver but stories of original exploration of a cave system or two. We need to not only document our past but continue to record what is happening now so the divers in the future will have access to all this information. Cindy Butler

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Hands up for any here who paid "early membership" fees for the infamous Branford Chamber Club to Phil and Carol Janka...?? OTOH, I DID like the dew-drop Inn they had on the Santa Fe...what was the name of the small spring there?

My dry-land cert work with Mary Ellen and Sheck was in their classroom at the BDC...

Norm

Norm,

Not sure if I have any pictures left. I had some above water ones of my buddy and I diving when we were students in the University of Georgia. When he passed away (diving), I sent all the pictures I could find to his parents. I'll keep an eye out though. The pictures were taken in the timeframe of the clorox bottles.

Donn

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Originally Posted by DKKearns

Norm,

Not sure if I have any pictures left. I had some above water ones of my buddy and I diving when we were students in the University of Georgia. When he passed away (diving), I sent all the pictures I could find to his parents. I'll keep an eye out though. The pictures were taken in the timeframe of the clorox bottles.

Donn

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Hal Watts might be able to get you some pictures, shoot, he did a talk at a seminar I was at about 18 months ago and brought the actual Clorox bottles with hemp rope he used at one time. It was pretty cool.

You have a great idea Cindy. Ichetucknee and Troy have held Old Timer's
Day events, we will be holding one a PSSP this year. They invite anyone who had frequented the area where the park now stands to come have lunch, to bring their photos, log books or newspaper clippings and talk of their experiences at the springs years ago. They make copies of any information the visitors supply for the park files. This would be a very good opportunity for you to get some stories. We'll have to work on a date for this event.
Janet

[quote="normblitch"]

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Originally Posted by DKKearns

In the late '60s we used clorox bottles for buoyancy compensation. We'd cut off the top, tie a rope to the handle and to the first stage/tank block, run it under our arm, and blow in or release air as needed. I dove Cherokee Sink near Tallahassee one night using my newly acquired light (handmade with a 30 watt sealed beam bulb, a 12 volt motorcycle battery, and plexiglass glued around the battery for strength) and a plastic 5 gallon jerry can instead of my 1 quart clorox bottle. It is amazing at how quickly one can unintentionally ascend when he loses control of his jerry can. I imagine the depth gauge that slipped off my wrist is still in the bottom silt somewhere.

I graduated from the clorox bottle to a safety vest (the kind you blow into to fill) and learned another important diving lesson while in the middle of the sulfide layer in Hospital Hole--don't take your regulator out of your mouth while in the middle of a layer of sulfide. The need for buoyancy control is not worth the taste.

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Do you by any chance have any PICTURES of the Clorox / Jerry can BC's?

I heard there were a few old clorox bottles in main Jenny before it was grated off...

And when will the old timers meeting occur at PSSP?

Richard

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Originally Posted by normblitch

Hands up for any here who paid "early membership" fees for the infamous Branford Chamber Club to Phil and Carol Janka...??

Norm

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:smt038

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Originally Posted by OFG-1

Norm, it was a Brawley pillow. Developed by Ed Brawley. Seatec was the last ones to sell any of them, then they were all custom made.

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I had a belly bag made by Bob Goodman, same guy that made the Goodman handle.

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Originally Posted by OFG-1

Forrest, If you recall, the fatalities were mostly OW divers or no certification divers. No lights, no lines, and they found the soft walls in the back or the silt on the floor.

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True, but Ginnie still allows open water divers in there, and with all the warnings in OW classes, kids still go stupid places, like the back of Royal.

Another thing to remember, most of Ginnie's income comes from tubers, etc. *not* cave divers. If anyone removed the grate without permission, they could stop all cavedivng from their property :)

Yea, you could still get there by river, but would it be worth the hassle?

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Originally Posted by FW

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Originally Posted by OFG-1

Forrest, If you recall, the fatalities were mostly OW divers or no certification divers. No lights, no lines, and they found the soft walls in the back or the silt on the floor.

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True, but Ginnie still allows open water divers in there, and with all the warnings in OW classes, kids still go stupid places, like the back of Royal.

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The event that stands out in my mind why we put the grate in was the 3 University of Georgia students who died together back in the cave system. That happened circa 1969-70.

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Originally Posted by FW

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Originally Posted by normblitch

Hands up for any here who paid "early membership" fees for the infamous Branford Chamber Club to Phil and Carol Janka...??

Norm

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:smt038

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Did anyone ever "try to look them up?" after the debacle??

Norm

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Originally Posted by normblitch

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Originally Posted by FW

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Originally Posted by normblitch

Hands up for any here who paid "early membership" fees for the infamous Branford Chamber Club to Phil and Carol Janka...??

Norm

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:smt038

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Did anyone ever "try to look them up?" after the debacle??

Norm

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Oh yes! I found out they had been involved in a real estate scam in Georgia prior to Branford. I tracked them to the Carribean, where they were trying to get investors to set up a mini sub operation. As far as I know, that was also "vaporware".

I started to get suspicious when Phil had to pay me out of the cash drawer for "Wilson reels" and arrows. I was there once when the mail came, and all of his packages were COD.

He took a lot of people's money for Cressi Sub tanks, which he never got. I was lucky, and managed to get a couple of PST 104s from him instead.

Still, I did better than some. I know a few that put up hundreds for the chamber, and one that invested tens of thousands. He ended up with the shop :-)

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Originally Posted by normblitch

Hands up for any here who paid "early membership" fees for the infamous Branford Chamber Club to Phil and Carol Janka...?? OTOH, I DID like the dew-drop Inn they had on the Santa Fe...what was the name of the small spring there?

Norm

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This sounds "interesting" - fill us "young'uns" in.... The Branford Chamber of Commerce?? Now that sounds like that would have been a "formidable" institution in the old days!

JB

I'm guessing more like a recompression chamber. And if I had to guess further, I bet it was at what used to be known as the Branford Dive Center?

Drew

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Originally Posted by Limestone Cowboy

I'm guessing more like a recompression chamber. And if I had to guess further, I bet it was at what used to be known as the Branford Dive Center?

Drew

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It might be best to drop the chamber part of this thread, before someone violates rule #6. There was no real proof of wrong doing.

Norm,

I did find one old picture from the '70s (actually it was the 5 gallon jerry can trip). The quality isn't very good (slighly out of focus) and it doesn't show the clorox bottles, but you can get a feel for the kind of gear in use in those days. Or at least what college students could afford. I'll be happy to post it if anyone is interested and can tell me how. Also, at the risk of showing my ignorance, how do you embed quotes in replies?

Donn

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Originally Posted by DKKearns

Norm,

I did find one old picture from the '70s (actually it was the 5 gallon jerry can trip). The quality isn't very good (slighly out of focus) and it doesn't show the clorox bottles, but you can get a feel for the kind of gear in use in those days. Or at least what college students could afford. I'll be happy to post it if anyone is interested and can tell me how. Also, at the risk of showing my ignorance, how do you embed quotes in replies?

Donn

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If you click on the QUOTE button of a thread, your REPLY will include that previous thread in highlight/quotes in your new thread.

If you want to highlight something you are composing, use the mouse to highlight the text, then click on quote.

Click on UPLOAD PHOTOS in the pictures section above. Chip wrote up a good 'how to' at http://cavediver.net/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?t=421 . However, if still 'challenged', just email it (as an attachment), to me at [email protected] .

If you click on the QUOTE button of a thread, your REPLY will include that previous thread in highlight/quotes in your new thread.

Dang, I was wondering about how to do that too, but kept forgeting to ask thanks TJ
Brian

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Originally Posted by DKKearns

Also, at the risk of showing my ignorance, how do you embed quotes in replies?

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Some advice here: If the guy writes a novel, and you only want to refer to a sentence or two in your reply, after you hit the quote button, highlight and delete the extraneous part, so that only the pertinent part remains. (But be sure to leave the quote= and /quote in the brackets.)Then use the preview button on the bottom to ensure that the post will look like you want it to. If it doesn't, use the back button and try again. After it looks like you want it to, hit the submit button.

Russell

Thanks for the info. I seem to have uploaded the picture OK. I do apologize for the poor quality (slightly out of focus) of the photo.

The picture is of Sheck Exley, Karl Osvald, and I taken at Morrison Springs in 1970 when we were Univ of Georgia students. You can see that Karl has the old safety vest and Sheck and I had no obvious buoyancy compensators, so I'm sure the clorox bottle were hanging behind us (hmmm...wonder why Karl got the good equipment...?). You can also see the high tech diving light, diving swords, twin 72s, and the ever-popular snorkels. Note that Sheck has an octopus while the rest of us didn't. I had heard or read somewhere that he had created the concept of the octopus, but I don't recall any particular discussions about that back then (of course, after 35 years, I can barely remember my name). Can anyone confirm that?

http://www.cavediver.net/forum/galle..._1970_-med.jpg

Donn

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Originally Posted by DKKearns

Note that Sheck has an octopus while the rest of us didn't. I had heard or read somewhere that he had created the concept of the octopus, but I don't recall any particular discussions about that back then (of course, after 35 years, I can barely remember my name). Can anyone confirm that?
Donn

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Actually, Hal Watts claims credit for the octapus.

I put in a link to the picture :-)

Donn, that old Ikelite 6volt sealed beam really takes me back. I can remember when I thought that thing put out a lot of light. :smt080

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Originally Posted by nwade

Donn, that old Ikelite 6volt sealed beam really takes me back. I can remember when I thought that thing put out a lot of light. :smt080

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And the ModX using a halogen sealed beam and 6 alkaline Dcells was a quantum leap forward from my latern battery powered standard Ikelite.
Lee

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Originally Posted by nwade

Donn, that old Ikelite 6volt sealed beam really takes me back. I can remember when I thought that thing put out a lot of light. :smt080

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My fav BACK-UP primary (the old homebrews were NOT very reliable) was an Ike X modified with a trick sealed beam (maybe halogen) obtained at Genuine Parts...

Norm

It seems to me (it has been a few years, now) that Woody might still have a set of clorox jugs in one of his sheds behind the house. I vaguely remember him showing them to me one time and laughing about it. Dang. Has been a while.

J

I added (I hope) a couple more old cave diving pictures to the historical photo section. They date back to the 1969-1971 timeframe and give a perspective of some of the gear in use back then by poor college students.

Donn

I apparently didn't add the photos where I thought I did in the photo gallery. They appear to be under the caves and springs folder rather than the historical cave diving photos sections.

Do we have the ability to move uploaded photos within the gallery, or is that done by the webmaster?

Of course, putting pictures of my diving buddies and I under something called "historical" doesn't make me feel good...just old.

Donn

Hey Donn, It should make you feel good! You and the other 'old timers' have not only survived diving your home made gear, you made cave diving what it is today! Every dive that is done now is an affirmation that it can be done safely and that it can be done over time. It's not just a young person's adrenalin junkie fix. One of the many reasons we are interested in knowing more about our 'old timers' is that we are all aware that time and experience teach each of us the lessons we need to be successful. Your skills, stories, gear, techniques and those of the other long time cave divers have been developed by both your time and your intelligence. We want and need that infused back into this sport. No one wants to have to relearn the lessons that have been learned the hard way or reinvent the wheel when it comes to gear. Building on knowledge that is already there is the most effecient way to continue. Besides it's interesting! We just need to come up with something better to call our senior divers. Shoot I was an 'old timer' when I started cave diving. If this were karate we could call you something cool, any ideas out there for a COOL and less degrading name for our historians? Anybody have a suggestions? Cindy :)

I found an old photo a while back of Dale Stones' old dive shop & Tin Lizzie...1973 or so. We always got our "gas" fills there --- ummm only air. We also planned our MAMMOTH 1000 foot penetration dives there.

http://www.reef-divers.com/stonedale.JPG

:D

Jim,

Do you remember before the Ft White location when Dale was behind the parking lot at the Branford boat ramp?

I still had an old piece of valve tape they used to cover the valve after that "big" fill. Remember when it was a big deal to get 2700psi in our double 72's

http://cavediver.net/photopost/data/...Aqua-Shack.jpg

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Originally Posted by Cindy

Anybody have a suggestions? Cindy :)

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A couple of them refer to themselves as "mossbacks". I like it, conjures up an image of an big, old sea turtle that was around long before the young'uns were out of their shells.

Peter Doege

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Originally Posted by Cindy

I have had the chance to meet several of the Old Timer's during the last couple of years. Each had a story or history to tell that I didn't know about. So much of the history of our sport (if you can call it that, I persoanally think that's like saying polor explorers are involved in the sport of dog mushing) will be lost with the passing and or lack of contact with these men and women. It's not like baseball where it has all been recorded in public. Forrest has done some interesting articles lately that talk about some of the first meetings and dives but I think there is a lot more that is not being told. The Peacock book was a great step in the right direction.

What I would like to do is start collecting the oral and written history of cave diving. I may not ever do anything with it other than pass it on to someone more qualified than I am to write it all up but I think it needs to be done.

So, If you have a "Old timer's story" or story of original exploration that has not been written up or notes for that book you forgot to finish then please contact me. If you know of an 'old timer' who is no longer diving that I can contact then please let me know. Cynthia Butler 352-378-4579 [email protected] Those old timers that know me plan on meeting with me and talking nice into the recorder. Beer will be provided as needed.

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Cindy,
I just uploaded 3 photos from the mid '70's. Just a tad of my early history. It was all local, back then. I didn't know caves existed past my home range. I love the old stories and have collected and read everything I could get my hands on, from the early days. I think you and others are onto a great idea. Forrest is one of the best sources we have here but I'm sure there are many others. Please step up and share with us your early caving experiences.
Thanks,
Kenny P.

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Originally Posted by tj

Quote:

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Originally Posted by DKKearns

Norm,

I did find one old picture from the '70s (actually it was the 5 gallon jerry can trip). The quality isn't very good (slighly out of focus) and it doesn't show the clorox bottles, but you can get a feel for the kind of gear in use in those days. Or at least what college students could afford. I'll be happy to post it if anyone is interested and can tell me how. Also, at the risk of showing my ignorance, how do you embed quotes in replies?

Donn

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If you click on the QUOTE button of a thread, your REPLY will include that previous thread in highlight/quotes in your new thread.

Tom,
Youdaman at this thang! I did my own today but am grateful for all your help in the past.
Bless,
Kenny P.

If you want to highlight something you are composing, use the mouse to highlight the text, then click on quote.

Click on UPLOAD PHOTOS in the pictures section above. Chip wrote up a good 'how to' at http://cavediver.net/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?t=421 . However, if still 'challenged', just email it (as an attachment), to me at [email protected] .

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Please step up and share with us your early caving experiences.
Thanks,
Kenny P.[/quote]

Kenny, I am a infant compaired to you 'mossback' divers! :lol: I was just old when I started diving. Not an old timer!
Only eight years since Bill Bowden took me into 40 fathoms Grotto to show me "absolute darkness". I think that comes under how one dive can change your life! I do however remember meeting an odd man at Madison Blue springs when I was just a mud puppy. He had a funny beard and had upside down doubles on. I was afraid to talk to him but offered him some of my smoked turkey that I had brought for lunch. One of my dive buddies called him "the professor".

We need a vote on the name deal. I perfer "silver back' divers to Moss Back. I can also think of a few others, 'golden oldies' for one. Come on guys, put those thinking caps on! Thanks for the photos and if we run out of room here you can start sending them to Kelly or myself. Cindy :)

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Originally Posted by normblitch

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Originally Posted by DKKearns

In the late '60s we used clorox bottles for buoyancy compensation. We'd cut off the top, tie a rope to the handle and to the first stage/tank block, run it under our arm, and blow in or release air as needed. I dove Cherokee Sink near Tallahassee one night using my newly acquired light (handmade with a 30 watt sealed beam bulb, a 12 volt motorcycle battery, and plexiglass glued around the battery for strength) and a plastic 5 gallon jerry can instead of my 1 quart clorox bottle. It is amazing at how quickly one can unintentionally ascend when he loses control of his jerry can. I imagine the depth gauge that slipped off my wrist is still in the bottom silt somewhere.

I graduated from the clorox bottle to a safety vest (the kind you blow into to fill) and learned another important diving lesson while in the middle of the sulfide layer in Hospital Hole--don't take your regulator out of your mouth while in the middle of a layer of sulfide. The need for buoyancy control is not worth the taste.

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Do you by any chance have any PICTURES of the Clorox / Jerry can BC's?

While I just missed that stage of the History, I DO have drawings of these in my first Cave text by Tom Mount...I have a group of young Turk DIR types inS FL who REFUSE to believe it was ever done...

Norm

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I found a picture with the clorox bottle. It was taken Dec 1970 at Blue Springs State Park in Florida. I'll upload it to the photo gallery, and perhaps someone can transfer it (and the other pictures I loaded a couple days ago) to the historical photo section, or tell me how to do it myself (thanks!). As with most of my pictures from those days, the quality is not great because I'm scanning in a 35 year old slide into a digital form.

You can see the clorox bottle tied to a rope and floating behind me. Also, note the homemade light (Sheck made it) that would just light up a cave. It was very heavy, kept my head down and feet up, and took away the need for most of my weight (I was a skinny kid back then). Unfortunately, it had lots of sharp edges, so I usually came back from a dive bleeding from multiple cuts on my hand. You'd think I would have figured out how to avoid that after awhile, but....

Donn

OK, I just broke the code on how to upload to a specific directory. It was kinda obvious in hindsight--simply pick the category (folder) you want to upload to and press.

The web location for the picture showing the clorox bottle is:

http://cavediver.net/photopost/showphoto.php?photo=3412

I also saw where the other picture I had uploaded were transferred to the historical folder. Thanks to whoever did that!

lol, I still using that old aqualung regulator. the big round chrome one, just had it rebuilt a little while ago, I'm just to cheap to go buy a Poseidon Odin or somthin' like that...

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Originally Posted by Jim Wyatt

I found an old photo a while back of Dale Stones' old dive shop & Tin Lizzie...1973 or so. We always got our "gas" fills there --- ummm only air. We also planned our MAMMOTH 1000 foot penetration dives there.

:D

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Do you remember when Dale's shop was in Branford, right next to the Spring? He was in the same building that later was the Branford Dive Center. Stone's moved a little down river to a "real shack" around 1969.

The best part of the old days was that you would drive up to North Florida for the weekend to dive, go to a divesite, and you would know every other cave diver there!

Does anyone remember when CDS hosted the International Cave Diving Congress (I think that's what it was called). We rented out one of the houses on the Suwannee River in Branford....

I was part of the group hosting the French speaking cave divers. I remember 2 episodes quite clearly. We had to really watch the French so that they wouldn't just undress wherever they stood and get into their wetsuits...I remember running once at Telford with a huge beach towel trying to cover one of them up before the locals gathered! They weren't quite as modest about their nudity.

Another time during that week, we went to Peacock, and we walked through the woods to show them Challenge. It was soooo hot that day that I jumped into Challenge for a quick cool-off. When I surfaced, and looked up, I saw all the French divers (male) squatting on the rocks around the sinkhole......all I could see were 6......um........male body parts staring me in the face!! I was so young.....I turned the brightest shade of red you can imagine!

I miss all those days. I miss Sheck and Paul Meng, and others who are still alive but I haven't seen in years. A dinosaur day (or whatever you want to call it) at PSSP would be great.

I am really enjoying the stories! I'm glad it's brought some of our more experienced divers out for a chat. It's important to us all to learn from our past. I would like to say to some of the divers who have posted that please don't give up on todays cave divers. We don't have a Sheck right now, we are kind of splintered. No real hero. Maybe thats an internet thing. It creates so much clutter and instant gratification in our lives we don't take the time needed to be a part of a reality based community. I hope that some of you can come out and see we are not just words written on computers. I hope the "old Timers" stories will not only show where we came from, renew our sence of community and give some of the old timers the knowledge that there are good people out there. Don't let the BS you see on some of the forums turn you away from us. Make new memories with us! Todays events, explorations, and stories will be history some day also. We need mentors, heros and new young people being encouraged to grow if what we have done and are doing now is going to have any meaning. So please, keep in touch, tell stories, go diving with us. We need you all. Also, please don't be afraid to use your real names. Safe diving, Cindy Butler

Another memorable moment was a weekend spent camping and diving at Diepolder. A bunch of us were there when old Mr. Diepolder died. Even though he was very ill, he and Mrs. Diepolder were so gracious to let us be on the property that weekend...sometime late at night, with the campfire glowing and a million stars in the sky, someone came out to DPIII and told us he had passed. I remember Will Walters being there, maybe Steve Straatsma? most of the "Tampa guys".

Sorry...I know these memories aren't so much about diving, or equipment...but you guys got me started remembering!

I will say that my first set of doubles were royal blue 72's with a benjamin manifold..horse collar bc all taped around the neck, harvey wetsuit, 1/4 inch. I started cave diving in 1977. Not too long after that, we made our own belly bags (designed by Jeff Rusk) out of water bed pillows covered with a heavy duty canvas. Very trick! And I was so grateful because I had just acquired my first set of 104's and the belly bag was a great help with my trim.

I was also on a dive at Indian Springs when Mike McCaskill's BC failed...THAT was a memorable dive.

Thanks for letting me share these memories. take care.

I remember my very first cave diving setup, quite a while ago. It was double 80s, no bridge(got some strange looks when people saw I had to switch regulators). An old set of wings, a 1/4 shorty wetsuit, and I had made my wait belt by mealting lead shot into a pan(like for muffins or somthin') and bolting the weights onto a belt. :roll: I'm still too cheap to buy equipment that I could build better in my shop...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Maya

Does anyone remember when CDS hosted the International Cave Diving Congress (I think that's what it was called). We rented out one of the houses on the Suwannee River in Branford....

I was part of the group hosting the French speaking cave divers. I remember 2 episodes quite clearly. We had to really watch the French so that they wouldn't just undress wherever they stood and get into their wetsuits...I remember running once at Telford with a huge beach towel trying to cover one of them up before the locals gathered! They weren't quite as modest about their nudity.

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There is a bid in by the NSS to host that event again in the next couple of years. I hope they get it.

http://www.ics2009.us/home.html check out "excursions and events", then "field camps".

I took the French, German, Canadian, and Chech divers to Alabama after that to dive some sumps. Fortunatly there weren't many "locals" around to "protect" :wink:

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Thanks for letting me share these memories. take care.

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Anytime, please feel free to share! Cave diving isn't just about gear or maps or making money, it's about the people, having fun and the impact on our lives! It's also a visual and emotional story that makes up what we do.

I did a memory dive once in Little Blue with the team. We entered a huge room with large rocks that looked a lot like the monolith in 2001 a space odyssey. Watching my friends swim around that huge stunning room took my breath away. All the politicing, angry words and sillyness that goes on in cave diving disolves in the purity of that water. To me it's about those tiny moments, shared with good friends.

Thank YOU, for sharing. Safe diving, Cindy Butler

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Originally Posted by Cindy

Your skills, stories, gear, techniques and those of the other long time cave divers have been developed by both your time and your intelligence. We want and need that infused back into this sport. ....

We just need to come up with something better to call our senior divers. Cindy :)

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Cindy,

Have you considered an off-board roundtable at the CDS workshop?

Re: a name for us..."Heritage Divers" ???

Norm

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Originally Posted by NitroxWarrior

I remember my very first cave diving setup, quite a while ago. It was double 80s, no bridge(got some strange looks when people saw I had to switch regulators). An old set of wings, a 1/4 shorty wetsuit, and I had made my wait belt by mealting lead shot into a pan(like for muffins or somthin') and bolting the weights onto a belt. :roll: I'm still too cheap to buy equipment that I could build better in my shop...

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For single-tank work, Wes would modify a Dacor hard back back by freezing it for several days, then pouring lead into the bottom so it would run to the top for trim weight...LOVED the look on fillstation folks when they pulled up on the handle!!

Norm

seems like that would make the weight distribution a bit top heavy, not that the cave is much different upside down as it is rightside up, lol

Shannon...
Yep, I was there at DiePolders camping...the bizarre thing was, Mr. DiePolder was very sick, and that night Will Walters, in his usual "Florida Cracker-shaman" way, saw a ring around the moon and said that Mr DiePolder just died....turned out he was right!
I remember after that , every time we would go there to dive we would go in and talk to Mrs. DiePolder...she died a year or so later.
Was there diving III with Greg Flanagan, Dave Miner, and Gerry Murphy two weeks ago....first time in III in 19 years! Amazing what you see (and remember!) on mix vs. air!
I also remember being at the BACK (565 feet from the chlorox bottle at 180 ft.) and seeing three little specks of light appear as another team dropped below the lip into the room...we actually flashed lights and could see the return flash! Amazing viz, probably never to be seen again.

Thanks Steve..you are right! I had forgotten that Will said that. "Cracker shaman is a good description of Will. My log book says the viz that weekend was phenomenal. There were a couple of teams in the water, maybe 7 or 8 divers, and we strung out across the room and lit the entire room. I do think that was the best viz ever...

I have only dove there on air - It would be nice to see the place on mix. I remember Mrs. D always asking us to sit down, have some iced tea, and chat a while. We need to all get together for a "reunion", Steve. It would be great to see everyone again. Take care.

Hey Norm, I don't have any control over what the CDS workshop does but I do have an idea. They are having a social that Friday night. I'll bring a tape recorder, video recorder and buy the first beer and soda pitcher! We can practice for the Peacock Springs get together! :D Cindy

Cindy,

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Originally Posted by normblitch

Have you considered an off-board roundtable at the CDS workshop?

Re: a name for us..."Heritage Divers" ???

Norm

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As a new and young cave diver,only 21, i find all these storys facinating. Alot of you have been cave diving longer than i have been alive! I would be interested in hearing more of these story's. Really i just would like to hear any storys. Cave diving is such a great sport. I have had the oppurtunity to meet many great people along the journey so far, i am always excited to learn more and progress and talk to some of the older divers.

Adam

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Originally Posted by Cindy

Hey Norm, I don't have any control over what the CDS workshop does but I do have an idea. They are having a social that Friday night. I'll bring a tape recorder, video recorder and buy the first beer and soda pitcher! We can practice for the Peacock Springs get together! :D Cindy

Cindy,

Quote:

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Originally Posted by normblitch

Have you considered an off-board roundtable at the CDS workshop?

Re: a name for us..."Heritage Divers" ???

Norm

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Great Idea! If Norm had suggested it a couple of months ago, I would have arranged a time for it, but the social is a good time for it.

Thanks Cindy

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Originally Posted by Cindy

Hey Norm, I don't have any control over what the CDS workshop does but I do have an idea. They are having a social that Friday night. I'll bring a tape recorder, video recorder and buy the first beer and soda pitcher! We can practice for the Peacock Springs get together! :D Cindy

Cindy,

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Originally Posted by normblitch

Have you considered an off-board roundtable at the CDS workshop?

Re: a name for us..."Heritage Divers" ???

Norm

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Count me IN!

Norm

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Originally Posted by Cindy

I'll buy the first beer and soda pitcher!

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I don't know, Cindy, a pitcher of beer and soda doesn't sound all that appealing.

Russell

All depends on how big a pitcher we are talking here 8)

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Originally Posted by DeWayne

All depends on how big a pitcher we are talking here 8)

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Pitcher size doesn't make much difference, if it has soda in it :cry:

I think sludge was "trying" to be funny....

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Originally Posted by Sludge

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Cindy

I'll buy the first beer and soda pitcher!

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I don't know, Cindy, a pitcher of beer and soda doesn't sound all that appealing.

Russell

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Sure it IS!

It's called a SHANDY, right Rich?? Beer and lemonade?

Norm

Ok, just beer then! Your on your own for the soda! :-D

Now that does bring back some memories. Jim Taylor, Bob Messersmith and I used to go out on the Suwannee River and dive caves on Wed. nights. I didn't have to paddle because I sat in the middle. I brought Sandwiches and beer for my part of the trip. We did some fun dives but NOTHING could beat getting out of a sidemount cave on a starry night to COLD red dog beer and thick home made sandwiches! I think the beer helped up forget that the canoe was so overloaded with all three of us in it with full wet dive gear it was amazing we didn't swamp it. We would paddle back in the dark with the sides of that canoe about half an inch out of the water. I would light the way with a cave diving light. We just hoped we didn't hit a log! One of the best dives was the night we took the canoe to Rock Bluff only to find a black siphon where the spring normally was. We sat in the starlight, drank beer and told diving stories.

I still feel a little unsettled when on days like today. We had a great dive and my buddies take off in all directions. It just doesn't feel like the dive is finished without that cold beer and conversation over food. Oh well I guess I'm just not ready for the modern busy world of cave diving.

Cindy :?

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Originally Posted by FW

Quote:

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Originally Posted by DeWayne

All depends on how big a pitcher we are talking here 8)

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Pitcher size doesn't make much difference, if it has soda in it :cry:

I think sludge was "trying" to be funny....

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Well I don't drink soda period, so I just phased that part out :wink:

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Originally Posted by Cindy

Ok, just beer then! Your on your own for the soda! :-D

I think the beer helped up forget that the canoe was so overloaded with all three of us in it with full wet dive gear it was amazing we didn't swamp it. We would paddle back in the dark with the sides of that canoe about half an inch out of the water. I would light the way with a cave diving light. We just hoped we didn't hit a log!

It just doesn't feel like the dive is finished without that cold beer and conversation over food. Oh well I guess I'm just not ready for the modern busy world of cave diving.

Cindy :?

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I was introduced to Canoe Diving by Wes late one cold and moonlit night at Merrits Mill Pond...steam rising from the run like smoke...just enough light to see the LACK of freeboard...<g>

I later bought a Mohawk of my own, and enjoyed Hole Hunting on the Suwannee and Santa Fe...just don't see myself Diving from these new-fangled Kayaks tho' ... ;>))

Bath houses and wooden steps vs. Beer ... Hmmm...I think we HAVE had a Net Gain over the years!!

Norm

Yeah, well the reality is I don't drink on diving days. So the cold beer is a thing of the past except at the rare diver get together. I don't end up at public dive sites often and seem to perfer the canoe over showers. Most of the park diving has long walks through jungle and dirty sinks. I enjoy both the challange and the rewards of finding new caves and doing survey in the already known ones. I will admit I was wondering about my sanity at the park yesterday. We had so many mosquitos around they kept flying in my mouth and nose while I geared up! I am now how suffering from itching and blood loss. :lol: Al is ten years older than I am and still doing this stuff. The guy is a rock. I hope I can keep this up another 10 years, lots to do and places I need to see. Dive safe, Cindy Butler :)

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Originally Posted by Cindy

We just need to come up with something better to call our senior divers. Shoot I was an 'old timer' when I started cave diving. If this were karate we could call you something cool, any ideas out there for a COOL and less degrading name for our historians? Anybody have a suggestions? Cindy :)

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Cindy,

Instead of Old Diver, how about bOld Diver? OK, bad pun. Interesting that you used a karate analogy because that is how I originally met Sheck in 1968. We we both into karate at the Univ of Georgia.

Back in Feb 1971, Sheck and I made the traverse from Peacock to Pot Hole. As I recall, this is about 400' traverse--not much by today's standards, but pretty durn impressive by my standards back then with my experience level and the equipment we had. When we surfaced, there were two guys--divers? tourists? who knows-- looking down on us who were eager to talk about cave diving. After a couple minutes of chatter, one of them commented that he had heard about this diver named Sheck Exley. I could feel Sheck's ego rise just a tad behind me :wink: . He then proceeded to say that Sheck wasn't that good (pop went the ego!). I let them carry on for a minute (admittedly enjoying the situation), then politely introduced myself and said: "...and let me introduce my buddy, Sheck Exley." I really enjoyed the stunned silence, jaws hitting the top of the sink, and the attempted recovery on the part of the loudmouth. And of course, it gave me a great opportunity to rib Sheck, who had no clue who those guys were. All in all, a good day! :D

Donn

Very cool story Donn! OK, I'll call you Shihan or Sensei but I refuse to call you master! Sensei divers? Cindy Butler

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Instead of Old Diver, how about bOld Diver? OK, bad pun. Interesting that you used a karate analogy because that is how I originally met Sheck in 1968. We we both into karate at the Univ of Georgia.

Back in Feb 1971, Sheck and I made the traverse from Peacock to Pot Hole. As I recall, this is about 400' traverse--not much by today's standards, but pretty durn impressive by my standards back then with my experience level and the equipment we had. When we surfaced, there were two guys--divers? tourists? who knows-- looking down on us who were eager to talk about cave diving. After a couple minutes of chatter, one of them commented that he had heard about this diver named Sheck Exley. I could feel Sheck's ego rise just a tad behind me :wink: . He then proceeded to say that Sheck wasn't that good (pop went the ego!). I let them carry on for a minute (admittedly enjoying the situation), then politely introduced myself and said: "...and let me introduce my buddy, Sheck Exley." I really enjoyed the stunned silence, jaws hitting the top of the sink, and the attempted recovery on the part of the loudmouth. And of course, it gave me a great opportunity to rib Sheck, who had no clue who those guys were. All in all, a good day! :D

Donn

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Donn,
That is too funny. Thanks for the story. Please think of more and share them.
Thanks Again,
Kenny P.

Nuts, can you guys help me out please? I want to video at the social. Just some shots of our dino divers and the video camera I was planning on using will be in California! Can somebody please bring a video camera to the CDS social. If you let me know what to bring I'll bring some tapes. Cindy :-D

Don't forget you "old timers" about our impromtu meeting at the CDS social on that Friday. TJ is bringing a video. Gene M. I really want to record that story you told me about Sheck and you bringing stages out at Alachua Sink. That story has a moral that we can use today. I am hoping to get video of our cave diving 'oral history' that night. More good things are planned. Cindy :)

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Originally Posted by Cindy

Don't forget you "old timers" about our impromtu meeting at the CDS social on that Friday. TJ is bringing a video. Gene M. I really want to record that story you told me about Sheck and you bringing stages out at Alachua Sink. That story has a moral that we can use today. I am hoping to get video of our cave diving 'oral history' that night. More good things are planned. Cindy :)

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Cindy,

I will be the designated Photographer for the Workshop, and will be at the "Round Table of Heritage Divers Rattskeller" as well, so I can take stills if you want...

Norm

For just a little humor and thought, one of my friends suggested "Foundation divers" instead of "old timers". I was raised on a Horse Ranch and most of the bloodlines for horses came from a few 'foundation studs'. It would seem a good choice considering we all came from a small group of hardy cave explorers. Some of them may even be considered studs! :wink: So, Foundation Divers? :D Cindy Butler