any advice for 1st pilgrimage to cave country

Wife and I are making our first pilgrimage to cave country proper next week. Here's our tentative plan and some questions.

May 13 Jackson Blue
May 14-17 Ginnie
May 18-19 Manatee
May 20-23 Peacock

Any systems that definitely should be experienced on the first trip that we're missing?

Heard that flooding is affecting Ginnie, should we be thinking of pushing those days back?

Any must do activities, places to eat or experience while in cave country?

If the addiction only gets worse and we move to florida next year anything we may want to check out while in town?

Thanks in advance! See you'all next week

If you see us around feel free to come say hi!

http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g2...1/DryCavin.jpg

Personally I would avoid Manatee if you're not scootering. To me that's a cave you just don't swim at. I swam there once and swore I'd never come back until I had a scooter, a promise which my sore legs stuck to. I think I would spend more time in the Mill Pond area, JB, Hole in the Wall, and Twin are easily worth 2-3 days. Rent 2 sets of doubles and make a day out of Madison Blue. If you're already in the Tally area and the rain backs off a bit, pay $25 to join the WCDC and ask some of the guys there to show you around, that would take at least a day up (if it clears, it could take the whole trip and your next one!). Ginnie can easily take up 2-3 days of diving since it branches off quickly, you're good there, but I'm not sure I'd spend all 3 days at Peacock, with Cow and Telford so close. Plus Peacock is so shallow and so little flow that you can bring a stage and see a whole lot of that cave on a single dive.

For Ginnie and JB, try to team up with a local who dives them frequently. Getting out of the flow when swimming can really make the difference between a crappy dive that gives you a co2 headache and bloody fingers, or a great dive that you'll be grinning about through dinner. My first dive in Ginnie during class I hit 1/6ths before the lips (200ft in?)...after a few dives with locals and some instruction, getting to Double Domes (p1800ft) is completely reasonable.

If you can't dive because you're flying back, the Ichetucknee River is a must. Paynes Prairie has great hiking, one of my favorites in NFL because I've seen Bald Eagles there very often. Devils Millhopper is a fun place to walk down in a huge sinkhole. Hawthorne Trail is great bike riding. Part of the railroad in Branford has been converted to a bike trail, with wildflower this time of year it's one of the most scenic places in FL.

As for food, I'm a big fan of Conestogas in Alachua, as well as Great Outdoors in High Springs. I've yet to find anything great around JB, but there is a decent country buffet style place (name escapes me) that had great fried shrimp last time I was in the Mill Pond area. Admittedly, cave country isn't a fine dining hot spot.

Just my $0.02.

Don't worry about Ginnie flooding. Its pretty rare since they tarp it.

James has pretty good advice. As to Manatee some folks like to swim there but it going to be a short dive as he said on the scootering being better. If you go to Friedman make sure you wear a lot of OFF. Lots of ticks. ( Firsthand recent knowledge ) If it flooding other places though the water does tend to get clearer. Madison was pumping pretty hard from the last report I have heard. If we get a lot of rain, or more important in S Ga, you might want to double check before you go there though as can flood quickly. ( Madison is one of my fav caves )

Not having been to the mill pond I cannot say from first hand knowledge but all my buddy's cannot say enough about the area and how much is there. Its on my to do list.

Definately spend more time at the Mill Pond, rent a boat from Edd and enjoy.

Mdax, if you are in the area May 21-23, you should go the the NSS-CDS Workshop at Otter Springs. You will get a chance to meet a lot of people there, and learn a lot about cavedivng in other places. www.nsscds.org Click on Workshop 2010

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Originally Posted by SuPrBuGmAn

Definately spend more time at the Mill Pond, rent a boat from Edd and enjoy.

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I second Mat on this one. Plenty to see on the Mill Pond so if you change plans at all I would spend a little more time there.

Since I take it this is your first trip post training,then experiencing a lot of places will help build experience,and solidify skills;but most importantly it will allow you to see some varied sites. You might consider diving a low flow cave to start with since high flow won't give you quite as good assessment of trim and bouyancy. Some suggestions you've received have been pretty good,but I wouldn't avoid Manatee because it is hard or you don't have a scooter. It is always prudent to have swimming experience in a cave system before scootering,but most importantly, a person never develops the skills needed to address a high flow cave unless you do it. Unfortunately I know people who only do high flow unless they are on a scooter,and when they have to dive a high flow cave that doesn't allow scooters,they exhaust themselves,not from physical fitness,but lacking the ability to read the cave. Progressive penetration is good in cave systems,and systematically learning the cave will help if there is an emergency situation,versus trying to see all the cave in one dive. The most important thing is be flexible and have fun.

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Originally Posted by mdax

Wife and I are making our first pilgrimage to cave country proper next week. Here's our tentative plan and some questions.

May 13 Jackson Blue
May 14-17 Ginnie
May 18-19 Manatee
May 20-23 Peacock

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I'd limit Manatee to 1 day and it is most fun to enter at Friedman's Sink. The only catch there is that you need to do it the first time with someone who has done it before.

Spend the extra day at Millpond. Hole in the wall is great and you won't have the flow issues you would have in JB. As noted previously, rent a boat from Edd Sorenson and spend time at Hole in the Wall and Twin. The limestone is very soft there, and the fossils in some spots of Hole in the Wall are spectacular (imagine a fossilized sand dollar with about 90% of it hanging 2-3 inches out of the cave wall) so take care not to damage anything.

Cow spring is also a must see, but again requires care in terms of conservation as the walls are very dark and any dings will stand out as stark white. There are also some superb clay banks. There are two restrictions going in the upstream side but they are easily back mountable as is another minor restriction that drops about 20-25' through a bedding plane about 1000' in.

Peacock is nice, but is one of those places where you really need to get off the mainline to enjoy it. The water hole tunnel is very nice and can be easily back mounted all the way to the exit - just don't get out there. P3 is also, in my opinion, a must see system. In both cases, don't overlook the stuff in the front half of the cave. P3 has a superb cavern and you can go from the left side of the balacony (upper part of the P3 cavern) to exit at the P2 basin.

In P1, the line to the well (about 100-150') off to the left in the first large tunnel to the left after dropping down the crack on the Pothole/Olsen line) and toward P2 is nice and is overlooked by many divers. The Olsen bypass is also "different" than most of P1 and is worth doing. It will take you from half way through the crossover tunnel to the mainline about 400' upstream of Olsen, so it offers lots of different circuit opportunities.

Madison Blue is worth seeing, but it varies a lot depending on the flow, how recently it has been flooded, etc, so you may need to see it several times to get the full flavor.

Ginnie is another cave where the interesting stuff in the early portions of the cave are often overlooked in an effort to get to the more distant areas of the cave. Getting out of the flow ASAP will make the dive more enjoyable. Also don't miss the opportunity to poke around in the catacombs, the lips and key hole bypasses, the parallel tunnel, the line toward July Spring, etc. Very pretty and often overlooked. The Eye is an easier entry until you figure out the Ear, but the Ear is faster and easier once you figure it out. After entry, it helps to stay in the top of the gallery as the flow will be much reduced. Deco is pretty much a given and I prefer to deco in the Eye, especially if 30'-40' stops are required.

Also, reserve a day for a couple dives at Little River. It is a very pretty cave and worth the slight side trip.

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Originally Posted by DA Aquamaster

In P1, the line to the well (about 100-150') off to the left in the first large tunnel to the left after dropping down the crack on the Pothole/Olsen line) and toward P2 is nice and is overlooked by many divers.

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???

(Cave diving instructors are thorough, but they haven't mastered the art of teaching divers their left from their right.) :smt079

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Originally Posted by Slüdge

???

(Cave diving instructors are thorough, but they haven't mastered the art of teaching divers their left from their right.) :smt079

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Hmmm...it is less than clear as written. The jump is too the right but then you angle toward the left to find the line - which, to make it no less confusing - is on the lower right side of the smaller tunnel running slightly off to the left.

Another vote for the Mill Pond. Even if you spend 3 days at Jackson Blue and never make it to Hole or tiwn (I'm not recommending this), you still won't get bored.

You've got a lot of driving and hotel changing in there. I'd suggest that this is going to get more exhausting than you think. I would plan a set of sites based around a single location for my first trip. It's nice to only set the hotel room up once.

Also your sequence makes this even harder. Your later stuff is in between your first two stops. Plan your trip geographically. This is a great resource for this:

http://www.cavediving.com/aftp/cave_map.pdf

Another suggestion - no one mentioned madison. I've only dived this a couple of times but it's very pretty. Might make a good replacement for Manatee. I agree with everyone that manatee is scooter territory.

Have fun!

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Originally Posted by aainslie

You've got a lot of driving and hotel changing in there. I'd suggest that this is going to get more exhausting than you think. I would plan a set of sites based around a single location for my first trip. It's nice to only set the hotel room up once.

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Have fun!

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Yes, YES, YES!

You will likely enjoy the whole experience a whole lot more if you get to hang out and soak the ambiance, without having to hurry up and load up and drive drive drive.

The Mill Pond is great for this, as is the Luraville Area (Peacock and Little River).

Slow....caves ain't goin' nowhere ;)

Have fun and dive safe!

Excellent point. People forget that Branford, the "heart of cave country," and Marianna, the "heart of the panhandle caves," are 175 miles apart. That's close to three hours of driving.

If I lived in TX, I would do the Millpond on the way home, not on the way to Ginnie.

I agree changing hotels is a pita. We tend to stage out of Dive Outpost in Luraville. Peacock is in the backyard and Little River, Madison and Manatee are all within an hour drive or so. Millpond is a bit of a drive, but worth the trip and worth a night in a different hotel at the beginning or end of the trip. It's all relative though. After a 13 hour drive to get to NFL, a 3 hour drive to Millpond is no big deal.

Yes, but you're 3 hours closer to home on the way back if you do that last is what I think Forrest was getting at.

That could be the difference in getting in a quick morning dive on the last day before you head back too.

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Originally Posted by DA Aquamaster

We tend to stage out of Dive Outpost in Luraville. Peacock is in the backyard and Little River, Madison and Manatee are all within an hour drive or so. Millpond is a bit of a drive, but worth the trip and worth a night in a different hotel at the beginning or end of the trip. It's all relative though. After a 13 hour drive to get to NFL, a 3 hour drive to Millpond is no big deal.

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Yup - we always stay at Dive Outpost, convenient to all the usual cave diving spots. Often we'll do an overnight trip out to the Mill Pond - well worth the drive! And after a 24 hour drive to get to NFL, a 3 hour drive to the Mill Pond is like stepping out to get a quart of milk!
Two dives in Jackson Blue, then next day rent a boat from Edd to do Twin and Hole in the Wall.

I'm not a scooter pilot, but still enjoy Manatee, especially getting in at Friedman's. You don't need a scooter to have some great dives in high flow caves.

Other favorite North Florida activities: University of Florida Natural History Museum in Gainesville, visiting with other cavers at dive sites and shops, sitting around the fire behind Dive Outpost having a beer and visiting with old and new friends, and working on our quest to try every barbecue joint in cave country!

Mike