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We dove Orange Grove yesterday morning and it was slightly milky, viz 40+ improving further into the cave. P3 was blown. P1 mainline was totally gone. We dove peanut line in the afternoon. The cavern zone viz was 4'. Viz was a little better further in but we watched the tannic water coming. I'm sure it's gone by now.
Thanks for the report!
Why the bad viz? Is it flooding?Quote:
Originally Posted by scoupland
TJ just reported P1 and P3 are no longer useable as training sites. I suspect it will all be closed soon. Yes, it is flooding.
Tanic was comming in Sun. on P1 , OG still was looking good on Sat
The Suwanee level was over 28 feet this morning. It starts seeping into the slough at 26...Quote:
Originally Posted by deanme
This is terrible. First one acquires this new addiction, and gets all enthused because there is something to plan for the cold season. Learning to cave dive should obviously include this module that will be somewhat Hebrew for me but I am willing to bite it in small chunks. While I am still a total newbie in riverology, floodomy and haven’t gotten my charts skills in any kind of order would someone try to help me with my nerves here? (I have found myself browsing some pretty weird Fl related web pages lately...)
I had just gotten excited that maybe for the first time in my life I’d get to dive in February (yes yes, I just noticed it’s the only month I never dived in! That said I have only had 4 chances so far.) What do these floodings mean? I realize nobody knows for sure but say that if P1 was now gone but for my sanity all deterioration ended this minute - how quickly could it recover to be divable?
What about Little River? Say it would have just siphoned yesterday but decided not to want to siphon today (I don’t even know if that kind of short siphoning tantrum is possible). I have no comprehension how quickly a system can recover in ‘ideal’ (unlikely) conditions. I vaguely remember comments of which caves are more prone to be slow healers.
What about Madison that has been pretty much down since first week of Dec. If the downhill ended today, when could one expect it to be divable? I know it was back for few days, and then went under again.
As a first step, I am trying to get an idea what to expect, so I am not sitting around like a fool. Thanks for any direction.
little river and madison will be toast
ginnie and manatee will be your best bet. and the mill pond stuff
First to go, last to blow.:smt013Quote:
Originally Posted by alias
So with the social coming up and madison gone and peacock maybe gone what is the backup backup plan?
We'll make a decision on February 1st, and post it "everywhere".Quote:
Originally Posted by J_glenn06
Shirley Kasser
NFSA VP
Quote:
Originally Posted by alias
I am with you..... dont even have an idea what a slough is.... I just jump up an down in a circle saying " can we dive here... huh huh....please...."
maybe a new thread for the newbies explainig the intricasies of cave goings and comings back..... I know training included explanations of karsts and systems but not this stuff....
Typically, in the south, it's the freshwater equivalent of a cove. But the dictionary definition is a "marshy or reedy pool, pond, inlet, backwater, or the like," or "an area of soft, muddy ground; a swamp or swamplike region."Quote:
Originally Posted by JerseyJersey
"Peacock Slough" is really just a spring run.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slüdge
:smt100 cant find the "this post is useless without pictures smiley".... I was born a blonde and come from the real show me state....NJ..... when I am at these places you guys have to show me..... was there and definately dont remember it.... oh well
hmm... i thought that was telford, no?Quote:
Originally Posted by Slüdge
Nope, Maidson is worse.Quote:
Originally Posted by Green_Streak
It is pretty subtle, with no water in it. If you go down to Peacock 3, and look across the pool, and to the right, you can usually see a lower area, with different grass in it. There is something similar at P2, that I used to think was "the slough".Quote:
Originally Posted by JerseyJersey
There is a picture that TJ took of water running in from the river during the last flood a couple of years ago. It is in this thread: http://www.cavediver.net/forum/showt...=dsc08218x.jpg
Here's one I took during that flood....
http://www.cavediver.net/forum/attac...4&d=1204206903
Here is the entire thread.....
http://www.cavediver.net/forum/showt...ighlight=flood
Thanks Mike :D
Looks like all of the guages on the Suwannee are up about 5 feet from last weekend. I could not find a forcast for the next few days , BUT I assume an upward trend is assumed...???!!!
I don't mind GInnie and certainly don't mind Manatee !!! (SMILE)
Beano Baggins stuck in Charlotte , NC
Two years ago, Peacock, LR, etc were blown out for about 3 months. Last year I think it lasted about 5-6 weeks. It varies depending on rainfall in the area. Back before the drought, cave divers used to put their cave gear away in February/March and not plan on cave diving again until May/June. It looks like we may be heading back into that pattern again...for that area of cave country anyway...Quote:
Originally Posted by alias
All is well at the Mill Pond. The visibility in the 3 main systems there is just fine and conditions are pretty much unchanged. Hole in the Wall upstream isn't that great, but downstream is fine. So maybe just a change in dive plans is called for.
So, last year we were smart and planned a trip for January. This year playing with fire... I had no idea Feb was when floods used to start. To me spring begins in April (I come from far North), and that's when flooding should happen! I thought Feb was safe.Quote:
Originally Posted by RN
Thanks for the reality check with the times. I've looked at the river predictions, and I don't like the steady uphill most of them seem to have, neither the long term rain fall forecasts.
So, if I wanted to cave dive and wanted some variety I should probably look at visiting Marianna area for the first time. Not that I wanted to be driving back and forth when I only have 5 days to dive but anyway - I could not find JB opening hours anywhere (except for the park hours). Just in case, could anyone tell me how long is the diving day at JB if one wanted to divedivedive? :)
JB is 24h/7 in winter. There is a gate with electronic access. You need to sign in at Edd's on the first day (daytime most likely).Quote:
Originally Posted by alias
Actually it's 24/7/365 now. Except leap year, when it's 24/7/366.Quote:
Originally Posted by chimie007
Great, I was hoping so but a little unsure if something needed to be returned to the shop during opening hours or so. Great for those days when one might be driving in in the morning and having a late start.Quote:
Originally Posted by chimie007
I assume if one is diving there >1 day, it's possible to pay/get the consequent day (pass) the previous day, so thattaway one can also get an early start if so desired? Or does it need to be day-stamped during shop hours?
thanks fo rthe pictures....so what is it that blows out the caves?
in case I am just being confusing not knowing the correct terminology..... is what makes the caves undiveable the water rising from the rivers or the water coming up from the aquafers underground?
You can prepurchase and presign in if you plan on heading to the park before 8am. Remember, there are 2 other backmountable caves on the Mill Pond. They require a boat to get to, but Cave Adventurers does rent pontoon boats. They can go out first thing in the morning and must be returned by 5pm to give enough time to get gear unpacked from the boat.Quote:
Originally Posted by alias
Between Labor Day and Memorial Day the park is there for cave divers and anyone who rents the pavilions. Between Memorial Day and Labor Day the park is open Tuesday through Sunday for swimmers, as well. We can still cave dive (now), but parking is a little more of an issue.
The *only* thing that makes them "un-divable" is the landowners. However, you would be crazy to dive them when they were syphoning, and full of black river water. The water from the aquifer is *usually* clear, but gets mixed with river water when the river gets as high as is it is right now. It takes awhile, and a lot of local rainfall to get the aquifer clear again. The reason you need local rainfall is that there is sand over the top of most N FL cave recharge areas, and it filters the runoff from reasonable, to clear water that goes into the aquifer.Quote:
Originally Posted by JerseyJersey
Somebody needs to write hydrology 101 to put in the CDF resource area. Any voluneers? Jerry, Barbara, Jason, ...?
Things that people seem to need are:
1. How aquifers form
2. Why some are clearer than others
3. Hydrostatic head, vs river levels
4. Effects of sinkholes to a system (especially nitrate runoff)
5. River caves, vs sinkhole systems (like Peacock, Alachua, etc)
Quote:
Originally Posted by FW
Here's some basic starter info:
http://www.floridasprings.org/anatomy/jow/text/
Check out this map...hmmmm, where's cave country? What a coincidence :yawinkle:
http://water.usgs.gov/ogw/aquiferbas..._floridan.html
Yea, "cave country" includes AL, and GA too :-DQuote:
Originally Posted by sskasser
Yep, good background info, but doesn't address flooding.
True, but how would it look if I were to actually post something useful? :rollguyIt would completely ruin my rep!Quote:
Originally Posted by FW
great info...thanks.... had a completely different idea in my minds eye of what should be happening..... thought all the spring water comes from areas farther north like GA and local rain not as big an effect.... and that the force of flow keeps river water out so more rain up north = harder spring flow and more rain here = harder river flow..... if both are happening at same time should equal each other out..... apparently not and a lot more for me to learn ....... still not an old hand at it but everything is starting to make more sense
Still not a perfectly localized description, but the next-to-last diagram and related description give a pretty good idea of what's happening:
"One specific case happens when the surface- flowing stream to which the spring discharges is in flood from a storm in its headwaters, but not in the spring's watershed. The flooded stream blocks discharge from the spring, and in some conditions can actually reverse flow into the spring mouth and into the conduits"
http://www.uky.edu/KGS/water/general...e_flooding.htm
They have springs in KY? :eek:Quote:
Originally Posted by sskasser