Exploration at Ginnie - my Article

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11-09-2009 06:13 PM
aainslie

Exploration at Ginnie - my Article

I thought I'd put this up as a warm-up to my talk at the NACD conference, and also for people who won't be going. I'll be showing some video of the first 800 ft of this cave, as well as talking about it.

Here's an article that I wrote and that, one way and another, no-one wanted to publish:

http://www.asainslie.com/documents/T...nix%20Line.pdf

So what the hell, here it is! There's an incorrect reference, the real one is

http://www.asainslie.com/videos/phoenix2.wmv

Here are some video links to some other dives that I'll chat about:

http://www.asainslie.com/videos/publicsecret.wmv

http://www.asainslie.com/videos/cavefeb08_2.wmv

If anyone has suggestions of stuff they'd like me to address please PM me.

Regards,

Andrew
11-09-2009 06:49 PM
JCDdiver

Interesting article. Thank you for sharing.
11-09-2009 06:55 PM
AJM

Thank you for sharing.

Anthony
11-09-2009 07:27 PM
LiteHedded

these dives are just mind blowing
awesome work. it's a shame the first bit of it is getting trashed...
11-09-2009 07:30 PM
cavediver27

Andrew, Very cool video and what a beautiful passage that is! I'm a little surprised by what appears to be evidence of a fair amount of traffic back there though. Thanks for carrying the camera all the way back so you could share it with us.
11-09-2009 07:31 PM
YBWET

Enjoyed reading about the exploration, and watching the videos Thanks.

WaltP
11-09-2009 09:00 PM
fixxervi6

I would much rather read about things like this and see video like this vs half the banter that flies on some boards.
11-09-2009 09:11 PM
SuPrBuGmAn

Great stuff, thanks!
11-10-2009 07:58 AM
MengTze

Sweet stuff Andrew
11-10-2009 08:57 AM
icestac

Great write up Andrew! :clapper

Does anyone have a repost of the Phoenix2 video? I can download the other two videos fine (at 800Kbps at that), but the Phoenix2 video keeps choking out (and only starting abour 150Kbps).

Thanks,
Jeff
11-10-2009 09:05 AM
aainslie

Thanks all.

jeff, I just retested the link - it seems to work. It may have just gotten a bit busy, give it another try.

Dave, you have no idea as to the damage. But it's inevitable - it's very fragile cave, and very narrow. It's gotten way worse... until the second restriction, where BM divers can't proceed. it gets way prettier past that point!
11-10-2009 09:37 AM
FW

Quote:

Originally Posted by aainslie

....Dave, you have no idea as to the damage. But it's inevitable - it's very fragile cave, and very narrow. It's gotten way worse... until the second restriction, where BM divers can't proceed. it gets way prettier past that point!

Ah, so the "bulls' have been *trying* to get into the china closet? :-)

You would think that after everyone heard how tight it was, nobody would even consider going back there in BM.
11-10-2009 09:39 AM
icestac

Quote:

Originally Posted by aainslie

jeff, I just retested the link - it seems to work. It may have just gotten a bit busy, give it another try.

Your magic worked. Thanks!
11-10-2009 09:50 AM
netmage

Andrew - thanks for the writeup... nice read...
11-10-2009 09:53 AM
TommyB

Quote:

Originally Posted by icestac

Great write up Andrew! :clapper

Does anyone have a repost of the Phoenix2 video? I can download the other two videos fine (at 800Kbps at that), but the Phoenix2 video keeps choking out (and only starting abour 150Kbps).

Thanks,
Jeff

Right click on the video link,
do a save as. Save the video to your own PC
Then open the video using your vid player instead of trying to play it
via his web site.
It will download faster this way, and it will play faster.

TB
11-10-2009 10:17 AM
Gary

Quote:

Originally Posted by FW

You would think that after everyone heard how tight it was, nobody would even consider going back there in BM.

Unfortunately there are those who will just break out the wrecking bar and try to bash and dig their way in.

The cave diving industry in the past has glorified/justified those explorers who sometimes have to open up, damage or remove pieces of the cave to further their exploration. Even if the teaching changed immediately and for every agency and instructor it will be decades before the the idea that is OK to damage the cave to get where you are going is considerably lessened. Even then there will be those who just don't care.
11-10-2009 10:24 AM
RN

Thanks for putting the article out there, finally, Andrew! And thanks for the videos. Looking forward to meeting you on the 21st.
11-10-2009 11:03 AM
Gary

Good article! Very interesting. Thanks for sharing.
11-10-2009 03:52 PM
BobK

Good article !
11-10-2009 04:06 PM
aainslie

Thanks all for the comments!

Quote:

Originally Posted by FW

Ah, so the "bulls' have been *trying* to get into the china closet? :-)

You would think that after everyone heard how tight it was, nobody would even consider going back there in BM.

Well, there are quite a few divers who would live to visit it either backmount or on a rebreather. Unfortunately it's just not going to happen. It's a pity as having a rebreather back there would help the logistics immensely.
11-10-2009 04:26 PM
skip

Quote:

Originally Posted by aainslie

I thought I'd put this up as a warm-up to my talk at the NACD conference, and also for people who won't be going. I'll be showing some video of the first 800 ft of this cave, as well as talking about it.

Here's an article that I wrote and that, one way and another, no-one wanted to publish [.....]

Regards,

Andrew

I just read the conservation agreement that is required signing in order to be a member of NSS/CDS and it includes a statement about blocking public dissemination of cave location or other cave information if the NSS (and presumably the CDS) determines that information to be deterimental to the conservation of the cave. I don't know if NACD has a similar statement, but that may be why you can't get it published....

Wait, you have published it right here on the internet! Dang! Freedom of the press Lives! Voices will be Heard! Knowledge will be Transmitted!

-skip
11-10-2009 04:34 PM
atedeschi

Quote:

Originally Posted by aainslie

Thanks all for the comments!

Well, there are quite a few divers who would live to visit it either backmount or on a rebreather. Unfortunately it's just not going to happen. It's a pity as having a rebreather back there would help the logistics immensely.

I give about another year and your statement will no longer be valud, I am sure you already know what I am talking about :D
11-10-2009 05:07 PM
aainslie

Quote:

Originally Posted by atedeschi

I give about another year and your statement will no longer be valud, I am sure you already know what I am talking about :D

The second restriction CANNOT be done in backmount. Some fairly dedicated people have tried just about everything to get through there. Unlike the first one it's NOT clay -look at my video, 7 mins 42 secs in. And believe me, people have tried hard to find a bypass. I don't believe that there is one.

If anyone DOES get past it, please be careful after 5200 feet. That cave is delicate - I'm talking about hte bit that Agnes photographed. Don't screw it up!!!
11-10-2009 05:50 PM
Gary

Quote:

Originally Posted by atedeschi

I give about another year and your statement will no longer be valud, I am sure you already know what I am talking about :D

"valud"?

"valud"???

I don't think I'm alone in having no idea what you are talking about. ;)
11-10-2009 06:34 PM
K Mejean

I'm guessing valid. The kets are right next to each other. Looks like a mistake I would make.
11-10-2009 06:36 PM
Line Squirrel

Quote:

Originally Posted by aainslie

Don't screw it up!!!

LOL - Andrew, you're funny :)

Don't cave dive unless properly trained......

Don't dive beyond your limits......

Don't speed......

Don't smoke.....

Don't pee in the pool......

RI-I-I-I-I-GHT :rollguy
11-10-2009 07:40 PM
fixxervi6

Quote:

Originally Posted by mmcauliffe

LOL - Andrew, you're funny :)

Don't cave dive unless properly trained......

Don't dive beyond your limits......

Don't speed......

Don't smoke.....

Don't pee in the pool......

RI-I-I-I-I-GHT :rollguy

you mean your not suppose to pee in the pool?
11-10-2009 11:35 PM
atedeschi

Quote:

Originally Posted by aainslie

The second restriction CANNOT be done in backmount. Some fairly dedicated people have tried just about everything to get through there. Unlike the first one it's NOT clay -look at my video, 7 mins 42 secs in. And believe me, people have tried hard to find a bypass. I don't believe that there is one.

If anyone DOES get past it, please be careful after 5200 feet. That cave is delicate - I'm talking about hte bit that Agnes photographed. Don't screw it up!!!

I was thinking more along the lines of a SM CCR, not backmount.
11-11-2009 05:54 AM
caverkevin

Why? Me and my backmounted KISS Classic have been pass that restriction a few times. It's not that hard, just have to be creative. If anyone wants to learns, I'll be more than happy to teach them.

Quote:

Originally Posted by atedeschi

I was thinking more along the lines of a SM CCR, not backmount.
11-11-2009 09:57 AM
aainslie

Quote:

Originally Posted by caverkevin

Why? Me and my backmounted KISS Classic have been pass that restriction a few times. It's not that hard, just have to be creative. If anyone wants to learns, I'll be more than happy to teach them.

Yeah - by taking it off!!

Good job btw. Almost makes me want to buy one...

I hope that you're pushing the heck out of that passage... and that you'll tell the rest of us all about it.
11-11-2009 10:14 AM
caverkevin

Of course by taking it off ;-)

I was doing my CCR trimix instructor program the other day. The instructor trainer commented about never seeing someone remove and replace a rebreather mid water before. It is really easy to do once you have everything configure correctly.

I'll be glad to share over wings or something like that.

Cheers!!

Kevin

Quote:

Originally Posted by aainslie

Yeah - by taking it off!!

Good job btw. Almost makes me want to buy one...

I hope that you're pushing the heck out of that passage... and that you'll tell the rest of us all about it.
11-11-2009 10:57 AM
FW

Quote:

Originally Posted by caverkevin

Of course by taking it off ;-)

I was doing my CCR trimix instructor program the other day. The instructor trainer commented about never seeing someone remove and replace a rebreather mid water before. It is really easy to do once you have everything configure correctly.

I'll be glad to share over wings or something like that.

Cheers!!

Kevin

It is a lot easier with the right sidemount CCR :-)
11-11-2009 11:22 AM
aainslie

Quote:

Originally Posted by FW

It is a lot easier with the right sidemount CCR :-)

:) - ... and I'll play nicely. I do actually think your homebuilt is a nice piece of kit.
11-12-2009 08:33 AM
jsteedley

impressive video and commentary, great job Andrew!
11-17-2009 07:26 PM
JDostal

Nice to see you publish the article! This is the kind of good stuff I like to see on the board.
11-17-2009 10:10 PM
aainslie

Thanks everyone. I'll be the guy wearing a flak jacket on Saturday.

BTW I have a surprise announcement during my talk...
11-17-2009 11:13 PM
Randy Thornton

Andrew,

Nice article. Thanks for sharing. Exciting stuff! Good luck with your presentation.

Regards,
Randy
11-18-2009 04:59 AM
divgirlsue

An enjoyable read, Andrew. Thanks for sharing it. Wish I could be there this weekend.

Sue
11-18-2009 05:06 AM
RN

Quote:

Originally Posted by aainslie

Thanks everyone. I'll be the guy wearing a flak jacket on Saturday.

BTW I have a surprise announcement during my talk...

Great! And we have to wait until the end of the day to hear it.
11-18-2009 06:21 AM
FW

Quote:

Originally Posted by aainslie

...BTW I have a surprise announcement during my talk...

Please post it after the talk, for those of us that can't make it.
11-18-2009 06:11 PM
Bob Cree

Quote:

Originally Posted by FW

Please post it after the talk, for those of us that can't make it.

Yes Andrew, please do.

Bob Cree
11-19-2009 09:32 AM
aainslie

Sure! Will do.

Hopefully the "announcement" will be on sale in time for Christmas stocking stuffers...
11-24-2009 07:55 PM
MengTze

So Andrew, how was it? What was the big announcement?
11-24-2009 08:45 PM
atedeschi

Berman Map is being updated with the new section and will be for sale. He is probably busy until after Turkey Day.
11-25-2009 12:13 AM
aainslie

Yep. Diving Wakulla.

The map will be on sale soon, hopefully. Anita Berman is the sole beneficiary and holds copyright. It includes the new section of Ginnie, as surveyed my me and James Toland.

Regards,

Andrew
11-25-2009 11:47 AM
MengTze

Nice one Andrew.
11-25-2009 05:44 PM
rjack

Quote:

Originally Posted by aainslie

Yep. Diving Wakulla.

I always knew you'd see the light and retrain with GUE :D
11-25-2009 06:55 PM
YBWET

Quote:

Originally Posted by rjack

I always knew you'd see the light and retrain with GUE :D

Haha, I dnt think thats gona happen!
11-25-2009 07:48 PM
Mike Edmonston

Quote:

Originally Posted by aainslie

Yep. Diving Wakulla.

Good for you Andrew, Please release a new map when you reach the Gulf:supz:

Cheers,
11-25-2009 10:04 PM
aainslie

Quote:

Originally Posted by rjack

I always knew you'd see the light and retrain with GUE :D

I'm diving MY Wakulla, not THEIR Wakulla!

:)
11-25-2009 10:14 PM
UCFKnightDiver

whoa who said it was yours? :smt111
11-25-2009 10:51 PM
aainslie

Quote:

Originally Posted by rox@ucf11

whoa who said it was yours? :smt111

2000 ft of line...
11-26-2009 06:16 AM
sskasser

Quote:

Originally Posted by rox@ucf11

whoa who said it was yours? :smt111

Quote:

Originally Posted by aainslie

2000 ft of line...

:smt079 Oh SNAP! :rollguy

Congrats, Andrew!
11-26-2009 09:54 AM
LiteHedded

Quote:

Originally Posted by aainslie

2000 ft of line...

ZING!
11-26-2009 10:03 AM
JDostal

lol
11-26-2009 11:48 AM
Bob Cree

Quote:

Originally Posted by aainslie

2000 ft of line...

Is it backmountable? :-)

Congrats!

Bob Cree
11-26-2009 12:36 PM
UCFKnightDiver

Quote:

Originally Posted by addexdiver

Is it backmountable? :-)

Congrats!

Bob Cree

It's not easily backmountable as I understand it.
11-26-2009 02:16 PM
SuPrBuGmAn

Lots of other stuff in the area that IS backmountable.
11-26-2009 02:30 PM
UCFKnightDiver

Quote:

Originally Posted by SuPrBuGmAn

Lots of other stuff in the area that IS backmountable.

Indeed
11-27-2009 10:40 AM
aainslie

I'm in awe at how cool this cave is.

The entrance is challenging, but probably doable in BM. Once you get down to 200 ft, the cave is so large that it's hard to know where to head. Oh - 10 ft of vis also makes it a little challenging.

But it goes and goes and goes... currently heading Northwest which is a little unexpected, as Wakulla Springs is Northeast of here. Of course, I may have missed a passage that heads that way...

And there is LOTS of beautiful cave in this area. I don't understand why it gets dived so little. It's awesome.

Regards,

Andrew
11-27-2009 02:42 PM
LiteHedded

Quote:

Originally Posted by aainslie

I'm in awe at how cool this cave is.

The entrance is challenging, but probably doable in BM. Once you get down to 200 ft, the cave is so large that it's hard to know where to head. Oh - 10 ft of vis also makes it a little challenging.

But it goes and goes and goes... currently heading Northwest which is a little unexpected, as Wakulla Springs is Northeast of here. Of course, I may have missed a passage that heads that way...

And there is LOTS of beautiful cave in this area. I don't understand why it gets dived so little. It's awesome.

Regards,

Andrew

mostly because of the conditions
I'd dive them more if the conditions were better
11-27-2009 04:10 PM
RN

Quote:

Originally Posted by aainslie

I'm in awe at how cool this cave is.

The entrance is challenging, but probably doable in BM. Once you get down to 200 ft, the cave is so large that it's hard to know where to head. Oh - 10 ft of vis also makes it a little challenging.

But it goes and goes and goes... currently heading Northwest which is a little unexpected, as Wakulla Springs is Northeast of here. Of course, I may have missed a passage that heads that way...

And there is LOTS of beautiful cave in this area. I don't understand why it gets dived so little. It's awesome.

Regards,

Andrew

I was not too far from there the first time I heard about it. I need to get back there with the appropriate mix.

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