Wow guided dives to Buford. All you need is AOW.
http://tampa.craigslist.org/psc/spo/1439183064.html
www.supersportsandscuba.com
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Wow guided dives to Buford. All you need is AOW.
http://tampa.craigslist.org/psc/spo/1439183064.html
www.supersportsandscuba.com
Looking at their web page, at least you can be sure your guide will be properly configured. They're an authorized Spare Air dealer.
That is really sad. Buford is a beautiful but very fragile cavern / cave that needs to be protected and not trashed by a bunch of new open water divers bouncing all over the place and causing permanent damage. This is not an AOW dive. It is cavern at a minimum and full cave is ideal. Depths reach 165' and there is a lot of the area that is completely out of the cavern zone and truly cave. I have many dives in there and the increased traffic is starting to have a negative impact.
Great! We'll make it a stage diveQuote:
Originally Posted by Slüdge
Quote:
Originally Posted by rkij
You should be Technical Spare Air certified.
Amazing...
I predict it won't take much to get this area shut down to cave diving (diving in general). Eagles Nest is abused on a regular basis with OW divers going down to the debris mound,and some instructors using it as a deep training site for noncave divers. Bufurd I understand has its same share of problems. I guess we shouldn't get up in arms when this does happen,because the writing is on the wall.
Has anyone considered getting the guides to become Cavern instructors? That way they won't lead anymore AOW tours. They will sign them up for Cavern instead. At least it will be safer, if not less impact.
Quote:
Originally Posted by FW
Sounds vaguely similar to what happened in Mexico quite a few years ago..that didn't end too well.
Can someone identify the shop and/or instructors?
In the past the CDS & NACD have taken it upon themselves to reach out to these folks and attempt to educate them about the error of their ways.
If we can ID them I am sure further attempts will be made.
I guess that is the reason they need to bring their compass, so they can navigate out of the cave zone.:mad:Quote:
Originally Posted by cavediver27
What a civil and constructive approach! This seems to be what the CDS and NACD should be all about. I'm a nobody in the cave world (happily) but let me know if I can help!Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Wyatt
I think the agencies struggle to keep quality control up as is, adding more instructors, especially those who are already doing somewhat dangerous things, just doesn't sit well with me.Quote:
Originally Posted by FW
Just my $0.02.
My original post has thier shop listed.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Wyatt
www.supersportsandscuba.com
I had never heard of them.
Got it. I am a bit distracted this week.Quote:
Originally Posted by john
Please note that they are offering several different courses for 99 bucks, including scuba diver, advanced scuba diver, nitrox and rescue. Talk about devaluing training! If they continue to operate like this they will be out of business in no time.
Yeah, $99.00 for the "course" but then they probably require you purchase the following from them:Quote:
Originally Posted by Meister481
Bright colored fancy snorkle - $75.00
Bright colored Tupperware fins - $125.00
Bright colored super duper mask - $125.00
Cert dives - $250.00
Gear rental for cert dives - $100.00
Now that $99.00 course is actually $774.00
If they are going to take AOW divers into Buford then I'm sure they wouldn't have a problen screwing their students for the courses they teach.
There was a shop in Indy that was offering $99 classes....they are no more.Quote:
Originally Posted by Meister481
The whole idea is to educate those instructors. Hopefully they will quit doing dangerous things.Quote:
Originally Posted by jj1987
Look closely at their specials page. Would you take a Nitrox course from someone who can't spell it? Unless "Nirtox" is something new (LOL).
One of the shops I work in has a sign on the front of the building:Quote:
Originally Posted by Me
FREE SCUBA LESSONS*
*with purchase of Total Diving System
Must be an SSI shop, no?Quote:
Originally Posted by Slüdge
Has anyone attempted to contact them and setup an "educational" meeting with their instructors to teach them the errors of their ways?
I would assume that the CDS or NACD would have literature and would be bound to have someone that can make contact and offer the session to them in person.
If I wasn't already slammed with my schedule, I would be doing it.
I hope someone on the CDS or NACD BOD decides to step up and at least attempt a contact with them. If Chaz is closed again to the general diving public, it would not be a good thing. Permit Diving is not the way I want to have to dive Eagles.
Go back a page or so, and read Jim's and my posts :-)Quote:
Originally Posted by Tegg
I live about 15 minutes from this shop. If someone needs me to help out with this i will be more then happy. Im not an instructor but willing to help. I will be at Ginnie on Sunday so if there is any information thats needs to be dropped off let me know
Garrick
I spend A LOT of time in the Chass, almost every weekend. I have done a lot of dives in Buford, Warm Spring, Blind Spring, Karst Pond, Scrub Island Swallet, Eagles Nest and others.
The FACT that is missing in this discussion is that, like it or not, Buford is easier to get to than any of the other dive sites in the Chass and most of the divers who dive Buford are Open Water divers. I have personally seen a temporary OW card, issued a week before, on the dash of a car parked in the parking area by the logging road leading to Buford. I have made it a point to chat with divers about their experience and gear whenever I see them at Buford to try to get an idea of their experience level. Based on these conversations and observations I am sure that most people diving Buford are not cave or cavern certified.
Buford now has graffiti on some of its walls and in several places divers have tried to carve and cut fossils out of the wall. I have picked up beer cans and water bottles from inside both Buford and Warm Spring and carried them out. IMHO the best way to protect these resources is to make people aware of their beauty and educate them how to protect and preserve them. OW divers ARE diving the site now. Since it is unlikely that there will ever be someone to check C cards of divers entering these sites or to orient them as to the care necessary to preserve them, having a guide seems like the lesser of two evils to me.
Dive Safe - Jack
How in the world can a remote site in the middle of nowhere, (and that is quite a hassle to get to), become in such a short time a well known dive site where open water divers are going there (supposedly) frequently...!
I may be a bit slow sometimes to understand some things so can someone -- if it is even possible -- explain to me how this can happen.
In the relatively short time I've been cave diving I've seen and heard about a number of sites that have become diving hotspots and of course that usually takes a toll on the site in a number of ways.
I don't want to have access changed/denied at EN or surrounding sites but I would at least like to think that there is something that can be done to keep these sites remote (as they have been for decades) and not damaged by people that should not be there.
For the record, I have not been to Buford yet but I'd like to. I have been to EN a number of times and really enjoy it.
Jack it sounds like you are the guide for this shop. If I am mistaken please correct me.Quote:
Originally Posted by jhnmrt1
With the guide system you discuss then what would be next? Eagles Nest?
It just strikes me as irresponsible to be taking people cave diving without them getting any cave training prior.
There are already shops taking OW divers into Eagles Nest. I've seen it myself on several occasions. I wouldn't doubt the same idiots taking them to Buford are taking them to the Nest. Buford isn't an easy access and takes a lot of hard work to get in, the Nest is easy access and just requires a short walk to the platform and steps. With the current situation continuing on, both of these sites are a fatality waiting to happen.Quote:
Originally Posted by john
I know at least one shop TEACHING advanced open water at buford
FWIW, I did not get that from his post.Quote:
Originally Posted by john
No argument here.Quote:
Originally Posted by john
I am not a guide for any shop, I do not work for a shop, I no longer instruct. I prefer to dive in areas that most people feel are too remote or too difficult a to get to because I believe there are still things to be discovered in the Chassahowitzka Swamp and I am willing to put in the effort to look for them.
For the record, Buford is a little less than 3/10s of a mile, a 10, possibly 15 minute walk down a logging road. According to GPS, from the end of logging road to Buford Spring is about 320 feet through the swamp. Last weekend the grass on the Buford road was knee high in a few places but still an easy walk. From the end or the road to the dive site are red, green and pink pieces of marking tape as well as paint and driveway reflectors on trees every 20 feet or so. I walked in with gear two weeks ago and never sank deeper than ankle deep. Since I have humped my gear through the swamp all the way to Blind Spring head pool and Karst Pond (I have the video to prove it) I do not think a 15 minute walk makes a location particularly remote or difficult to get to.
OW divers are diving Buford almost every weekend. We need to deal with the situation as it exists, not as we want it to be or as we think it is. I got involved in this thread to let people know what was really going on at Buford. I think I have done that now so I will respectfully bow out.
If it is not too hot I am heading to Warm Spring this weekend. If anyone would like to join me send an email, maybe we can get together. As an aside, there are hunters in the woods with guns now, so you must wear blaze orange while in the woods. See hunting regulations for details. Dive Safe
I need to market a blaze orange wing, maybe a blaze orange camo wing! :mrgreen:
That would be great for our local quarry, where some people dump their old TV's, refrigerators, and couches, and other people shoot at them. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by mmcauliffe
Mike
Tracy says she wants to get a camo halter top so she'll be in style in north Florida. She is undecided whether to go with RealTree or Mossy Oak camo, though.
Talk about having a hole in your wing or dry suit!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by jhnmrt1
Be careful because if they shoot one of those oxygen tanks on your back they will explode :yawinkle:Quote:
Originally Posted by jhnmrt1
We could start by not talking about these sites on the internet. Where do you think they get the info?Quote:
Originally Posted by WEPIV
Ask them.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gene Powell
Most of them get their info by word of mouth still... You'd be surprised where they get their info when you talk to them... online is pretty low on the list.
i found out about buford onlineQuote:
Originally Posted by Tegg
I found out online as well.
Kelly brought up earlier that instructors were taking ow or cavern divers to Eagles Nest for deep training.
What he didnt mention was 2 years ago one of those instructors was on a board criticizing an ow shop for taking divers to Buford.
Thats a word of mouth that is a big issue. Even bigger than the online directions.
I am going to revive my comment that I made. Even though this is probably bad timing,it happens to be very timely. I promise you these sites will be lost if something isn't done to provide some type of control. From past experience in places where they are unable to provide proper supervision,it is easier to shut it down,that try to determine a plan,especially in this time of limited budgets. Since these sites are available to the untrained,and letters from the training agencies are unheeded,something in terms of gating the property and a check in process is sorely needed.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelly Jessop
I heard about Buford from another diver, who was told by another then another, who found out online. Then I told my buddy who told his, and so on. That online post produced 7 more divers.
When my friend and I first went there we stopped at a popular Crystal River dive shop
to confirm directions. An employee at the shop (not the owner) was pissed that we were even thinking about diving there. He did everything he could to talk us out of it.
We did the dive anyway, but felt guilty because at the time we were only Intro-Cave.
A few years after that, I saw "M" and thanked him for his concern.
Maybe a big sign "NO WEIGHT BELTS ALLOWED" might help.
Chris
I'm curious...did he confirm your directions?Quote:
Originally Posted by Corbett
First off Mike you owe me a 1/2 can of bug spray.
No. He said we would never find it. Thank God for Google Earth.
Chris