Ginnie Report

This is one of I hope many reports from the Devil's System, since I decided to get an annual pass.

Friday 9/25/09
My buddy and I went to Ginnie today, for him it was to do his first cave SM dive and for me it was the first time to bring in my ccr. The plan was to not go too far and do an easy dive one and if either of us felt uncomfortable turn the dive. Our first dive we headed in through the Ear, dropped our deco bottles at the sign & continued in following the gold line until we reached the expressway tunnel. We made the jump in to the expressway tunnel, followed it until we came up on the next jump. We jumped off the Expressway tunnel line heading right towards the way out, not to much farther we came to the Cornflakes line and jumped on to that and followed it to the gold line. After completing the circuit we swam back up the mainline and retrieved our jump spools, installed a jump to Hill 400 for our second dive and exited the eye. The vis was great as far my light could shine.

Questions: What is the tunnel or jump called between the Expressway tunnel and the line heading to cornflakes (Blue Line)? Also is the cornflakes jump called that or does that tunnel have a name (purple line)?

For our second dive we entered through the ear again, made our way up to Hill 400, jumped to the left and followed that line till we reached the jump to the Syphon tunnel. We made that jump and right as the syphon tunnel bend left we jumped again to what I believe is the double lines, swam till we where a little past the 1200' mark. We turned the dive pulling our reels on the way out and headed out the eye. Both dives went off without a hitch and got to start my exploration of the Devil's System.

Questions: Is there 2 lines in that tunnel off the syphon tunnel? If so wear? Also does my line look right in that tunnel (dark purple line)?

Here is my overlay of our 2 dives and I hope to keep adding to it, and post it with reports.

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Originally Posted by atedeschi

Questions: What is the tunnel or jump called between the Expressway tunnel and the line heading to cornflakes (Blue Line)? Also is the cornflakes jump called that or does that tunnel have a name (purple line)?


Questions: Is there 2 lines in that tunnel off the syphon tunnel? If so wear? Also does my line look right in that tunnel (dark purple line)?

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1. The Red line is the crossover tunnel, the blue the expressway, the purple, the bone line.

2. The last time I dove the tunnel you have indicated (two weeks ago), there was no line, and I used my primary (I took it specifically because I knew no line was there). There are two lines, one is right after making the jump which would be parallel to your purple line, just in the closer tunnel. The other is what I have always called the syphon tunnel, which on that map is on the right just before the end of the tunnel you jumped to off of the hill 400 line at 1000'.

This is what everyone I dive with calls these tunnels, etc...If any of this is wrong I am sure someone will chime in.

I hear people call the jump just past the cornflakes the park bench.

The purple line you have to run a reel, there's not currently any line there. Once you see a pit in the floor, you're just a few ft off the end of the passageway that you see leading to the whale bone. Pay attention when running the line, there used to be line there, and there's already scarred rock, so try to limit adding line damage.

The siphon tunnel has 1 line, and that last portion that Berman marks SM is where the tunnel takes a small, sharp left. I can't remember if there's line in the side tunnel, but it's real short, and pretty small for BM.

Please be careful posting too much about these areas of Ginnie. They're not protected by the long swim that many of the back areas are, and they're pretty fragile area's of a cave that's already pretty destroyed.

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Originally Posted by jj1987

Please be careful posting too much about these areas of Ginnie. They're not protected by the long swim that many of the back areas are, and they're pretty fragile area's of a cave that's already pretty destroyed.

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What are the rules you would propose for too much information? Maybe the mods could create a private forum for dive reports in their free time. Of course if any land owners read your comments about destroyed caves, they may start shutting down the systems. So maybe we should all be a little more careful in what we post.

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Originally Posted by atedeschi

This is one of I hope many reports from the Devil's System, since I decided to get an annual pass.

Friday 9/25/09
My buddy and I went to Ginnie today, for him it was to do his first cave SM dive and for me it was the first time to bring in my ccr. The plan was to not go too far and do an easy dive one and if either of us felt uncomfortable turn the dive. Our first dive we headed in through the Ear, dropped our deco bottles at the sign & continued in following the gold line until we reached the expressway tunnel. We made the jump in to the expressway tunnel, followed it until we came up on the next jump. We jumped off the Expressway tunnel line heading right towards the way out, not to much farther we came to the Cornflakes line and jumped on to that and followed it to the gold line. After completing the circuit we swam back up the mainline and retrieved our jump spools, installed a jump to Hill 400 for our second dive and exited the eye. The vis was great as far my light could shine.

Questions: What is the tunnel or jump called between the Expressway tunnel and the line heading to cornflakes (Blue Line)? Also is the cornflakes jump called that or does that tunnel have a name (purple line)?

For our second dive we entered through the ear again, made our way up to Hill 400, jumped to the left and followed that line till we reached the jump to the Syphon tunnel. We made that jump and right as the syphon tunnel bend left we jumped again to what I believe is the double lines, swam till we where a little past the 1200' mark. We turned the dive pulling our reels on the way out and headed out the eye. Both dives went off without a hitch and got to start my exploration of the Devil's System.

Questions: Is there 2 lines in that tunnel off the syphon tunnel? If so wear? Also does my line look right in that tunnel (dark purple line)?

Here is my overlay of our 2 dives and I hope to keep adding to it, and post it with reports.

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Anthony... Please DO NOT ever post information about any of your dives. Heaven forbid -- The land owners, or even worse - the diver may actually dive these routes, thereby finding you and any posts you make quickly deleted/or censored... This may also lead to being banned permanently from the CDF... Also... NEVER... EVER... Question the CDS board of directors... Will lead to immediate deletion of thread. Be careful on the CDF... :) hahahaha... Dive on, and keep posting!

+1 on the Park Bench it's large and flat and looks a bit like a bench.

My impression was the red and blue lines together are the "expressway" but I could be wrong.

The first jump to the left as you go up hill 400 takes you to July spring and it gets to be a very strong syphon. But after you take that jump, if you take the first jump to the right, you will be in the parallel tunnel and it is a very nice dive in very pretty and slightly tight cave. (You can see the line in spots as you go up Hill 400.) It's one of those areas people probably do not want to advertise, so go careful and try not to contact the walls or ceiling.

Taking the line up through the bone room and big rooms is also a must do dive at Ginnie.

As an aside, I noted some fresh rocks on the floor about 2/3rds the way up hill 400 and as I was looking at them I got nailed with a football size rock that fell from the ceiling. My dive buddy confirmed I was never closer than a yard from the ceiling so percolation was enough to bring it down. So if you see fresh rocks on the bottom, don't hang around gawking at them.

Thanks for the info everyone, and I ammend my map alil. We jumped off the syphon line to the line in the double line tunnel that is there. Anyway it will come together. JJ1987 not sure what you are saying, and i dont wanna turn this into a discussion about it, but anyone can do this dives without me posting about it. Can't wait to get back.

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Originally Posted by Marc Bryan

What are the rules you would propose for too much information? Maybe the mods could create a private forum for dive reports in their free time. Of course if any land owners read your comments about destroyed caves, they may start shutting down the systems. So maybe we should all be a little more careful in what we post.

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I can't think of a rule other than think about the consequences of more traffic in the area. I've noticed the more information you can find on CDF/TDS about an area, the more likely it is to be damaged, but someone is either going to agree or disagree with me on that, as other recent threads prove, there's clearly no point in an online debate as they get no where.

And you're right, Rose might find out that Ginnie has lots of damage and stop taking our $22, I'll watch it from now on!

Well, for one, I'm really happy that you're doing this. Making notations on the map and connecting them with names helps me understand the dive reports I read. I don't understand why people think that writing a report about diving a tunnel means more people will go there -- after all, the maps are generally available, and the tunnels are on the maps.

Anyway, I look forward to more installments, and more colored lines on the map!

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Originally Posted by jj1987

Please be careful posting too much about these areas of Ginnie. They're not protected by the long swim that many of the back areas are, and they're pretty fragile area's of a cave that's already pretty destroyed.

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Here we go again... Why is it okay to make and sell a map that shows all of these locations, but it's a major offense in the cave diving community when someone uses the map to plan & execute a dive and then discusses it (or posts a video) on the web?

If you want to reduce traffic, talk to the agencies about reducing the number of certs they do each year. Make a Cave Card like a hunting tag. There's a lottery and only XX number of people can take a cave class each year. Do the same for DPV cards. It'll keep the traffic down, but it'll mean less money for the agencies, which means less caves get purchased, less benches/stairs/parking lots, etc get built (this would keep traffic down as well). You can't have it both ways.

Bruce

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Originally Posted by Cali Knucklehead

If you want to reduce traffic, talk to the agencies about reducing the number of certs they do each year. Make a Cave Card like a hunting tag. There's a lottery and only XX number of people can take a cave class each year.
Bruce

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Now how are all these instructors going to pay for there advertising ??

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Originally Posted by LCF

Well, for one, I'm really happy that you're doing this. Making notations on the map and connecting them with names helps me understand the dive reports I read. I don't understand why people think that writing a report about diving a tunnel means more people will go there -- after all, the maps are generally available, and the tunnels are on the maps.

Anyway, I look forward to more installments, and more colored lines on the map!

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I'm with Lynn on this one. The maps are there and divers talk about them all the time, but some of the smaller tunnels off the beaten path, even way up in the front of the cave (like the lips bypass, keyhole bypass, fuzzy bunny hole, etc), are not places prudent divers usually go without going there first with someone who is familiar with it.

Many of the lines are also usually far enough off the mainline that they are not visible from the main line anyway. That is a far better way to ensure they do not get casual drive by traffic, and it encourges a more or less guided dive with a diver who has already been there, at least the first time.

Today Billy and I meet up at Ginnie to buddy up for a dive before he headed north to dive for the weekend. Our plan was to do the reverse Hill 400 circuit and to take photos.

After gearing up we headed down the run and entered through the eye. As we dropped down there was a group finishing up deco and a cavern or intro class entering the eye. Once we got through the eye I drop a deco bottle at the sign and we began our swim. The plan was to reach the lips were I waited until he made it through and then turned around and setup his camera for pictures. We snapped shots and different angles from the lips to the park bench. By the time we finished getting past the park bench and taking photos it took us 36mins.

We continued up the main line to Hill 400 where we placed a reel for our return back to the mainline. Then the swim continued up the mainline and we jumped to the rollercoaster, we continued up the rollercoaster line taking photos until we reached the shortcut jump. At this point I turned the dive because I knew we would not be back to the sign by 2 hours and I knew Billy wanted more pictures on the way out. We exited pulling both the jump reels and shooting more photos around the park bench and keyhole. I reached the sign at 1 hr 56 min, and exited through the eye with a 13min deco. All in all it was a great dive didn’t get to complete the circuit but hopefully we got some good shots.

Will you be able to share some of those shots? It is always nice to see pictures of the cave.

As soon as I get them from Billy, he will be diving all weekend so maybe next week sometime.

After teaching OW students this weekend my dive buddy and I both had a free day and decided to head north for the day to do some diving. Since it was last minute we met at the shop at 4:30am, slammed 4 tanks for him full of nitrox loaded our gear and hit the road for a 3hr drive. About 45 minutes in to the drive I passed out in the passenger seat, sorry Jim, I was up late getting my unit together and last minute stuff for school.

We reached Ginnie around 8:30am, did the usually check in and decided to park over near the eye since it was not busy today. After setting up our gear bringing tanks to the water we went over our dive plan and got suited up.

Dive 1:
Jim and I entered through the ear dropped out bottles on the gold line and began our swim in to the cave. Upon reaching the Hill 400 jump, I placed in a reel, and then headed back up the mainline until we reached the Roller Coaster jump. We jumped to the Roller coaster line and continued in. I think this is an awesome part of tunnel, with the ups and downs, and clay floor. At the 1000' mark, we jumped to the shortcut tunnel, making our way to the end of this tunnel, which ends at the bats. I have seen this part of the cave in pics and videos but the scene still cracked me up. Placing our final spool for this circuit we jumped on to the Hill 400 line and began our exit through Hill 400. The flow began to pick up and we just drifted with the flow. This is a must do circuit and a great way to see Hill 400 with doing any work kicking in to the flow. At the end of the Hill 400 line we pulled our reel and continued our exit. Made our way to the sign, and exited through the eye for our deco. I was very happy with this dive, new part of the cave I have never seen and completed the circuit I set out to do Friday.

Dive 2:
After a 2hr SI, and Jim swapping out his tanks, we headed back in to pull our reels from our first dive and to find a spool I dropped :( . Again we entered through the ear, Jim dropped his deco bottle and we were off and swimming. Once I made it passed the park bench, I was in search mode for my spool. It was right were I thought, laying on a rock, right before the Hill 400 jump, with the one side of the double ender clip stuck open (damn Lowes SS clips). Once we reached the roller coaster line we pulled our reel, continue in to the shortcut jump, went to the bats, pulled our real and swam back down the shortcut tunnel. After reaching the roller coaster line we continued following it into the cave until, it ended at the Dogleg. We followed the mainline back to the Maple leaf, and someone was nice enough to have a reel already in place for us so we followed it, swimming down the Big Room/Bone Room line. What a awesome cave, I did this part once before but did not remember how dark the ceiling and walls are or how high the ceilings were. Following the line out to the cornflakes, we were back on the mainline and exited the cave.

Two great dives in 1 day, can't wait to get back. I will be out of town the end of this week and weekend but have off next Monday and Tuesday if anyone is interested in going.

Attached is my map of places I have been in Ginnie thus far and I hope to fill it all up.

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Originally Posted by atedeschi

... with the one side of the double ender clip stuck open (damn Lowes SS clips). ...

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Glad you have had a good dive. If you run the end knot thru the hole of a spool and then clip your double ender into knot twice (not thru the hole of the spool) - it will hang free and will not unlock. The last time I've heard it was Jim Wyatt teaching this way.

That is the way I have my spools, the gate on the double ender never closed, so even though I clipped it to the dring and pulled to make sure it was on, after a few kicks I guess it just rolled enough to slip back off.

After a few issues with colds and schedules, my dive buddies fell through. I decided to head up to Ginnie anyway on Friday morning. After having to rebuild my BOV Thursday night when my unit failed its pressure test, I loaded my car for the drive in the morning, and hit the pillow. After what only felt like minutes the alarm was buzzing and 5:30am was here. I hoped in the car and made my way north. The whole drive up I thought the sky was going to let loose from all the fronts moving in but I was lucky to only drive through a little drizzle.

I made it to Ginnie a few minutes pass 9am checked in and parked by Little Devils. I was surprised that there was some what of a crowd, compared to what I have seen in the past few weeks. As I dropped my gear in to the water and was getting ready for my dive, I met Jim Wyatt (BTW it was nice to meet you Jim), and discussed my dive plan and what he was up to.

My dive plan was to head up hill 400, placing a jump in at 1000' heading to the syphon tunnel, then immediately jumped off the syphon line to the double lines. From there I wanted to swim the circuit back to Hill 400' and if I had time maybe check out the Ice Room. I knew it was big goals for one dive but I figured hey why not give it a shot, but my only limiting factor was the bailout plans I had written (2hr max BT).

For my actual dive, I entered by little devils, dropped in to the eye and made my way to the mainline, dropping my deco bottle by the sign. Once I started swimming up the gold line to the lips, my light surprised me in how much it lit up the tunnel. The reason for mentioning this is my primary is broke and I used my UK C4 led fitted with a goodman handle. Upon reaching the Hill 400' jump, I placed my spool in, swam up to about 600' and dropped a bailout bottle. At the 1000' marker I installed a spool to the syphon line, then swam back to the Hill 400' line and continued up to the 1200' marker and installed a jump to the other end of the Double Lines line. After making this jump, this part of the cave looked interesting and I decided to continue in. As soon as I began swimming the cave drops down about 10-15' and through a minor restriction. Heading in the cave was beautiful and low and wide, with a majority of the bottom being clay. I was taking my time going slowly checking out this awesome looking cave, and thinking how nice my sidemount would be cruising through here but definitely do able on my Kiss. After passing through the first major restriction or at least the one I believed is marked on the map and went till I saw the 1400' line marker.

At this point I turned around and decided to see if I could make it back to the other side of the double line circuit and complete it. By the time I reached the jump by the 1200' marker, I noticed I would not have time to complete the circuit and pulled my spool. Cruising down the hill back to my first jump spool I headed on that line and swam up the double lines line just to take another look at this part of the cave since my first visit a few weeks ago. I made it again to 1400' on the front side of the double line circuit and was 1 hr 25min in to my dive, which meant time to head home to make it back to the sign before 2hrs. I headed out of the cave cruising with the flow, pulling my spools. When I reached the Hill 400 line another team was exiting as I reeled in my spool. As I was swimming out I chuckled to myself, about having dive buddies now even though I do not think they knew I was behind them. At the 600' mark, my stage was retrieved and I continued my exit, reaching the sign at 1 hr 52min.

All in all it was a great dive, I got to see some new part of the cave, a better idea of the distance of the jumps and happy with my new stage bottle rigging. Now I need to write in more bailout plans in to my wetnotes (up to 4 hrs I guess). Hope to give this dive ago next week. It was also nice to meet YBWET and daehag (spelled right?).

Dive Summary
BT: 1 hr 52
Deco: 17 min
Max Depth: 99'
Avg. Depth: 80'
Setpoint: 1.1
Total Distance In: 1400'

FWIW I have been keeping track of distances and flow; here is a summary if anyone is interested.

9/27/09: 1250’, 30min, 42 fpm (Just drifting out from double lines)
10/3/09: 900’, 21min, 43 fpm (Just drifting from Bats to Mainline down the Hill)
10/16/09: 1300’, 27min, 48 fpm (Kicking some until making it to about 600’)

FYI/Warning: One of my mini spools fell off my clip, so beware there maybe a spool floating around, or loose line. The spool is a mini spool with pink line and marked 20’ on the side.

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Originally Posted by DA Aquamaster

I'm with Lynn on this one. The maps are there and divers talk about them all the time, but some of the smaller tunnels off the beaten path, even way up in the front of the cave (like the lips bypass, keyhole bypass, fuzzy bunny hole, etc), are not places prudent divers usually go without going there first with someone who is familiar with it.
Many of the lines are also usually far enough off the mainline that they are not visible from the main line anyway. That is a far better way to ensure they do not get casual drive by traffic, and it encourges a more or less guided dive with a diver who has already been there, at least the first time.

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Just to say that its the same kind of problem here in Mexico. The lines are being changed on a frequent basis (supposed to be the act of only one person!!) and some 'hidden' jumps become Ts and so on.
If you want to go in some place not used very often, then you have to develop the skills and awarnes that would be necesary. Finding a 'hidden' jump is part of map reading/explration so if you are at that level, you should know better.
Preservation is the key, conservation is the mojo!


:arrowgreen

This past week I got two days to dive. Thursday we headed up to Little River and did 2 dives. The first was just following the Mainline and checking things out since I have not been there since the floods and one of my buddies has never been there. We made it to the top of the silt hill past the Florida room at 1400'. The second dive, we did the mud tunnel, then to the Harper Tunnel to about the first restriction (FYI: Before the first restriction the line is really loose, and looks like it’s been tied back, and I tried to tighten it some as well.)

I have to say little river looked a lot different, the white walls were covered in silt, and there was a lot more sand/silt on the bottom. Once we made it towards the back of the FL room, the cave looked completely different and the floor to roof distance looked a lot smaller. The vis was not bad 20-30' but a lot of particular in the water. Flow seemed to be how it was before the floods, maybe a little more.

On Friday, we went to Ginnie, our first dive was a quick circuit going from the mainline to the bone line, jumping to the express way line, made it to the end of the expressway line and jumped to the Bone Line, heading back out to the mainline.

For our second dive my buddy and I, went up to the Hill 400 jump (Thanks for the New Line), then jumped to July Spring, and immediately jumped to the parallel line jump. We headed up this line until reaching the first T were we went right, then continued to the next T again going right, went about 50 feet past and turned our dive.

Next week I hope to be doing a longer 3 hour BT and get to some more new places. If anyone is interested PM me.

After having to go home last week, and the RBW part Friday :D I made it to Ginnie today. My plan was to try and find the Ice Room and/or complete the double line circuit, which I have attempted before. After making the 3hr trip I got to Ginnie, dropped my bailout in the water and geared up.

As I was giving my final checks before swimming down the run my MAV on my Kiss blows out, and O2 comes screamming out :( . Needless to say I was not happy. I took all my bailout tanks off and headed back the the car. There was nothing I could do to fix it, and I was not driving home without diving.

I took my Kiss of my SM harness, removed a hose and got back in the water, this time I was going OC SM. Since I only had my 2 LP45s and AL40, I figured a play around in the Catacombs, which I have yet to swim around in. What a awesome part of Ginnie, I tied in my primary to the goldline and just started following the twists and turns. Ran out of line, so I reeled in and went a different route. I spent a total of 50 mins in there just messing around. After I surfaced and swam back down the run I dropped down in to little devils to check it out. The entrance is very small and looks like a few feet of sand needs to be moved to get anywhere.

All in all it turned out to be a good day, and I suggest if you have not spent time in the Catacombs to go do it. On a sidenote, I never seen so many spilt fins and force fins in a cave at one time ;)

Stay tunned, I hope to be going Wednesday and maybe once more this week.

Thanks for this report! Next time I get to Florida, I plan to spend at least a couple of days in the front part of Devil's, trying to get a handle on the patterns of flow and how best to get through that section of cave. It's nice to know the Catacombs would be a nice reward for some research time.

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Originally Posted by LCF

Thanks for this report! Next time I get to Florida, I plan to spend at least a couple of days in the front part of Devil's, trying to get a handle on the patterns of flow and how best to get through that section of cave. It's nice to know the Catacombs would be a nice reward for some research time.

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Take a primary, to go check it out, 140' wasnt enough.

The plan for today was to scooter up the Hill 400 line to the Syphon tunnel, drop the scooter and swim up the double lines. Then when reaching the ice room jump take that and head back to the ice room. Once reaching the ice room we would turn get back to the double lines and complete the circuit back to the Hill 400 line, pulling are spools and retrieving the scooter. Part 2 of are dive was to exit the Hill 400 line, hit the mainline and scooter up to the Insulation jump then swim those lines come back and depending on time, hit the double domes on the way out.

Part 1 of our dive went off without a hitch, and the Ice Room is awesome!!! It is a little small and silty to get to it but when you do you know it and WOW. When we completed our circuit and began exiting on the scooter out, Marson's B/O regulator blew up and man was it loud and the air was flowing. He shut it down, checked his gear and then we both tried to calm down. I later found out that not only did the reg go but it blew out his wing inflator as well. Needless to say we rode out of the cave, and when we got to the sign there was what looked to be a 8 man team barreling down on us.

We exited through the eye, with myself in the lead. I made it out to the sign where a 3 man team was waiting and they took off in right after I got out of the way and Marson had to push and maneuver around them to get out. I finished my 5 min 30' stop by the time he was able to get past that step up (Please remember, EXITING DIVER HAS THE RIGHT OF WAY). The rest of deco was uneventful, just watched the herd of people coming in and out. Needless to say Ginnie was a zoo today, good thing we got in somewhat early.

All in all it was a good day of diving, Marson hope your ribs are not bruised to bad. We did a 2hr BT w/ a Set point of 1.0
Average depth 90'
Max depth 99'
Deco: 5min @ 30', 5 min @20' & 25min @ 15'

BTW: The diver in the eye taking pictures of me during deco and putting my fins back on, and ascending, please pm me, I would like to see the pictures.

Hey Ant, please don't overpost the Berman map. It's unfair on his widow, who still has the copyright. Just use it judiciously.

Mods, any chance we can take that down? Or alternatively, I'll be posting a VERY high resolution version of Hancock's map shortly...

Did not know it, thought it was cool because on other sites etc. Wonder if I can remove the old ones and just keep the must recent one.

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Originally Posted by aainslie

Hey Ant, please don't overpost the Berman map. It's unfair on his widow, who still has the copyright. Just use it judiciously.

Mods, any chance we can take that down? Or alternatively, I'll be posting a VERY high resolution version of Hancock's map shortly...

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I don't think that's the appropriate way to handle an infringement case. To suggest that because one person violated a copyright that you will violate another is a non sequitur to me? I understand an eye for an eye but don't get the third party eye here. Also, why pose a threat to the moderators as well? A simple request to Ant would have been more judicious, a behavior we should all strive for. Bill Huth

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Originally Posted by wingman

I don't think that's the appropriate way to handle an infringement case. To suggest that because one person violated a copyright that you will violate another is a non sequitur to me? I understand an eye for an eye but don't get the third party eye here. Also, why pose a threat to the moderators as well? A simple request to Ant would have been more judicious, a behavior we should all strive for. Bill Huth

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Well Bill, I suspect that people are pretty casual about the Berman map, and I feel that's wrong. I guarantee you there would have been a far more vociferous response if Ant had used Jeff's map. Although it might have done Jeff's health some good as he "prepared" himself for his interview with the FBI to prosecute Ant...

And given the crap I've taken from Jeff over the years, it's always fun to needle him a little when I get the chance.

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Originally Posted by aainslie

Well Bill, I suspect that people are pretty casual about the Berman map, and I feel that's wrong. I guarantee you there would have been a far more vociferous response if Ant had used Jeff's map. Although it might have done Jeff's health some good as he "prepared" himself for his interview with the FBI to prosecute Ant...

And given the crap I've taken from Jeff over the years, it's always fun to needle him a little when I get the chance.

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I think it is always good to respect copyright. I don't like speculating about what ifs that did not happen as well.

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Originally Posted by wingman

I think it is always good to respect copyright. I don't like speculating about what ifs that did not happen as well.

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Oh come on. You're a fair fan of the subjunctive yourself - do you really want me to dig some examples out?

:)

Anyway, all's well that ends well...

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Originally Posted by aainslie

Oh come on. You're a fair fan of the subjunctive yourself - do you really want me to dig some examples out?

:)

Anyway, all's well that ends well...

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The Berman Map is blatantly on a number of different sites...with or without permission i do not know. Have you contacted them to remove it? I certainly hope that it has ended :)

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Originally Posted by wingman

The Berman Map is blatantly on a number of different sites...with or without permission i do not know.

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Why speculate if it's allowed? Both of you two are on FB, as is Anita, her son, and her two daughters...contacting any of them would be really simple, there's no reason to speculate here.

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Originally Posted by wingman

The Berman Map is blatantly on a number of different sites...with or without permission i do not know. Have you contacted them to remove it? I certainly hope that it has ended :)

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Good point.

Could anyone let me know by PM of any sites that the map is up on? I'll gladly contact them and ask them to show a little respect.

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Originally Posted by jj1987

Why speculate if it's allowed? Both of you two are on FB, as is Anita, her son, and her two daughters...contacting any of them would be really simple, there's no reason to speculate here.

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I do not know any of them...we also live in the same state but i am not about to go knocking on her door.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by wingman

I do not know any of them...we also live in the same state but i am not about to go knocking on her door.

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Not directed at you...meant anyone who wants to use the map and isn't sure of how the copyright holder allows it to be used...It's certainly not hard to get in contact with the family to make sure you're "doing the right thing" if you (again, not YOU specifically) want to.

Although, I wouldn't be too harsh on whoever is using it, the copy online doesn't have any copyright notice on it...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jj1987

Not directed at you...meant anyone who wants to use the map and isn't sure of how the copyright holder allows it to be used...It's certainly not hard to get in contact with the family to make sure you're "doing the right thing" if you (again, not YOU specifically) want to.

Although, I wouldn't be too harsh on whoever is using it, the copy online doesn't have any copyright notice on it...

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No problem, just thought you were referencing andrew and me...there are definitely some online with the berman copyright. I actually own a purchased physical copy of all the maps i use, including the berman map, and i never use that one.

Well, I put in a call to Deb Green to verify what's going on. It looks like Walt put a copyright notice on the one on his website. Not sure about the other one that someone pointed me to - thanks someone!

First let me say that I believe that intellectual property / trademarks / copyrights should be respected and those properties should not be copied and sold, pasted all over the internet or infringed in any other way. As for this discussion, Steve and Jeff's property is theirs alone (or their assigns) and people should respect that. So far so good.

Now the hard part. Protecting and enforcing those properties is one of the most difficult and expensive endeavors a person or corporation can take on. Large companies can spend untold $$$$ on attorney and court costs over many years and even then they may not prevail. Intellectual property laws are complex and firms that take these kinds of cases are specialized and expensive and they want their fees up front. The local ambulance chasers who work on a contingency basis don't have a clue about them and they typically won't take them on. The average individual (Steve's estate or Jeff for example) of modest means trying to defend his or her intellectual property is pretty much out of luck. They would quickly go broke paying expensive attorney fees while trying to recover very minimal dollars for the financial damages they encountered. Remember, we aren't talking about items that sell in the millions nationwide, they're maps that sell in very small quantities.

I've had a good bit of corporate experience in these kind of things and have retained some of the best national firms that there are and in the end only the attorneys came out ahead. The plaintiffs and defendants usually end up writing the checks, not receiving them.

It brings back fond memories of diving with an iconoclastic buddy whose name I won't mention here. He told me to lead the dive into Siphon till I wanted to turn. In b/mounts I popped into a bunny hole (sm tunnel). There was a line in there (9-10 years ago, so I kept on). He later told me he was planning my funeral. It was tight but I wouldn't do it again.

What is this about color coded lines at Ginnie? ARE y'all kidding? When did that happen?
Cheers,
Barbara

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jj1987

The siphon tunnel has 1 line, and that last portion that Berman marks SM is where the tunnel takes a small, sharp left. I can't remember if there's line in the side tunnel, but it's real short, and pretty small for BM.

Please be careful posting too much about these areas of Ginnie. They're not protected by the long swim that many of the back areas are, and they're pretty fragile area's of a cave that's already pretty destroyed.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by cavedivingwoman

What is this about color coded lines at Ginnie? ARE y'all kidding? When did that happen?
Cheers,
Barbara

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Several months ago, GSO said scooters had to stay on gold line. The goldline now stops just before the Hinkel, and changes to white line. There is a tag on the line saying to leave your scooter there.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by FW

Several months ago, GSO said scooters had to stay on gold line. The goldline now stops just before the Hinkel, and changes to white line. There is a tag on the line saying to leave your scooter there.

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Pretty funny really.

It reminds me of the concept of speed bumps. Old farts get the local municipality to put them in to "slow down traffic". All they do is slow down the old farts - any kid is perfectly willing to drive over them at 60 mph.

Similarly with this sign and line colour change - anyone going back there will only find the idea of scootering past the gold line as demonstration of how cool he is.

And I'll guarantee you that some of the people who sat on the committee that made that decision reguolarly scooter straight past it. After all - it doesn't apply to THEM, just us dumbass tourists.

(Sorry Ant - we're taking your thread on a real ride here)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by aainslie

....It reminds me of the concept of speed bumps. Old farts get the local municipality to put them in to "slow down traffic". All they do is slow down the old farts - any kid is perfectly willing to drive over them at 60 mph.

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This "old fart" doesn't slow down for speed bumps, as evidenced by the sagging spare tire deck lid that my 104s sit on :-D

Okay, now that we have this thread totally hijacked, my brother had speed bumps in his neighborhood. He measured the width of his truck stance and took an axe and chopped out enough speed bump that if he ran his driver's side through the groove he cut his passenger side tires just missed the edge of the speed bump. So much for slowing down...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by cavedivingwoman

What is this about color coded lines at Ginnie? ARE y'all kidding? When did that happen?
Cheers,
Barbara

---

Russell (Slüdge) made me go back and look at the first post, to see what this thread was originally about. All that red/blue/purple line stuff was about a picture of the map that was removed for copyright infringement. It wasn't the color of the lines :-)

No worries about the hijack, i will have another report after the weekend so if we can get back on to track after that im ok with it. I hope to have some kind of stick map worked out with the same concept as before.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by atedeschi

<snip>On a sidenote, I never seen so many spilt fins and force fins in a cave at one time ;)

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Force fins....really? Wow!

Just got home from a great weekend of diving!!!

Saturday 13th:
Dove with David & Becky, she got a some shots at the Eye and the Ear. Dave and I then swam to July Springs, and made it to the EOL. It was awesome part of the cave, dark walls and high flow at the beginning. We then swam back towards the Hill 400 line made a jump to the parallel lines and swam until we made it back to the Hill 400 line. From there we exited to the mainline and out the eye. It was funny to see the spider web of lines on the way out.

The second dive of the day was going to be a swim to the Hinkel. After about a 2hr SI, it was time to dive again. Entered through the ear, swam up to the rollercoaster, made the jump, took that back to the mainline and continued in chasing Jonathan (human scooter). I lost him at about 1800', but we kept going and then he pass me on his exit at about 2600'. Made past the Hinkel restriction to the plaque in 1 hr 7min, looked around a little then drifted all the way out (50min) since I just had my head down swimming in.

Sunday:
The plans were a three man team, scooter to the mainland jump, and then swim the line. We made it in and 1 of the 3 lost a light in the gallery. The two of us continued on as planned, dropped the scooters on the mainline, and jumped to mainland tunnel. We swam to about 3600' and turned the dive. Got to see more of the cave when scooter the mainline this time and the mainland tunnel was Sweet!!!

Profiles:
Dive 1
BT: 1 hr 30 min
Setpoint: 1.0
Avg Depth: 66'

Dive 2
BT: 1 hr 58min
Setpoint 1.0
Deco: 35 min
Avg Depth: 90'

Dive 3
BT: 1 hr 50min
Setpoint 1.0
Deco: 35 min
Avg Depth 85'

There's soething funny about you letting a guy with a dead light (with 2 spares ) head home on his own instead of continuing with 3 of you (with 6 spares and 2 mains between you) ...

Just beautiful how people let rules get in the way of logic...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by aainslie

There's soething funny about you letting a guy with a dead light (with 2 spares ) head home on his own instead of continuing with 3 of you (with 6 spares and 2 mains between you) ...

Just beautiful how people let rules get in the way of logic...

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He really didn't head home, just exit the cave since we where only at the sign. Plus he could of if he wanted to, but didn't.

He could have sat in the middle of us on the scooter part and the swim. Anyway it was a cool dive.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by atedeschi

He really didn't head home, just exit the cave since we where only at the sign. Plus he could of if he wanted to, but didn't.

He could have sat in the middle of us on the scooter part and the swim. Anyway it was a cool dive.

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Ah... THAT makes sense!

(I had visions of him swimming back 2000 ft on a 2W LED. Done it myself - not fun!!)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by aainslie

(I had visions of him swimming back 2000 ft on a 2W LED. Done it myself - not fun!!)

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LOL Try from 3300' :) Berman room solo :) Glad I had my mask light ON. Scootering was quite entertaining with the small Intova but I least I was out in no time...

Back on the hijacked topic...While I understand the copyright issues, this thread was a lot better with the labeled map....

I am going to make a stick map type thing when I get a chance.

Friday 20th:
Went in through the eye, dropped O2 on the gold line and began my swim. I jumped on to the Rollercoaster jump then back to the gold line. From there I jumped to the Hiller shortcut line then to the Hiller Tunnel. I made it to the end of the Hiller Tunnel, which placed me on the Double Domes line, were I swam to the EOL in the Double Domes. It is a really cool part of the cave and not that difficult to get to. I then got back on to the Hill 400/Hiller Line and began to swim out. On the way out I took a detour and made a jump to the first line of the Syphon tunnel and swam to the EOL of what I am calling Part 1 of the Syphon Tunnel. At this point I decided to head home and swam out back to the mainline and from there I hitched a ride from Dave on the way out.

BT: 2.5 hrs
RT: 3 hrs 20mins
Avg Depth: 85 feet
Setpoint: 1.0

Sunday 22nd:
Rode the scooter to the No DPV sign, dropped them and swam to the beginning part of the Scraper tunnel (I think 3400-3500'). We turned the dive, swam to our scooters, then drove out to the double domes jump, went to the EOL again and back to the gold line. From there we scooter to the Maple leaf and went down the Big Room/Bone Room line. After getting back on the gold line we headed back in made the Hill 400 jump and a light died, therefore the dive was over.

BT: 2 hrs
RT: 2 hrs 35mins
Avg Depth: 88 feet
Setpoint: 1.0

FYI: The Mainline is frayed right before the Mud Tunnel jump. Might be worth taking a look.

It has been awhile since I have posted a dive report, I still have been diving. Now its time to catch up with the reports and I have a map to go with it again. I am still continuing to learn the cave and see all the passages and having a blast doing so.

1/6/10
I started out late and just did a small dive to get back in the water after a month. I swam to Hill 400 jump, then jumped to July Springs and jumped right on to the Parallel Lines. At the first T I went right swam to the EOL, turned and went to the other side of the T. Reaching the 2nd T I went right again and swam to the EOL. Turned went back to the T, took the other direction and swam until it ends back at the Hill 400 line. At this point I turned the dive, headed home and pulled my spools.

1/7/10
Did a double stage dive to the back of Ginnie. Swam to where the EOL used to be, turned and took the 2nd T (Old Main Line) on the way to Chapel's Challenge. Swam to about 3800-3900' and turned my dive, picking up my stages on the way out.

1/7/10
Swam up to the Lips, and jumped in to the Lips Bypass. At the T we headed left back out to the Mainline. Once back on the mainline we swam until we jumped to the July Springs shortcut. From July springs we headed back to the Mainline via the Hill 400 line. At the mainline we swam up to the Mud Tunnel (The 2nd one), swam until we reached the Big/Bone Room line. At this point we turned the dive, headed back in to the Keyhole bypass to the Lips bypass to pull our spool.

1/8/10
On this dive I want to check out the Syphon Tunnels. Took the scooter up Hill 400 until I reach Syphon Tunnel (A), were I dropped the scooter. From here I swam the first part of the Syphon Tunnel and made it to the EOL, turned and head back out looking for the jump. I did not find it, but I know its there just missed it. At this point I swam back to the scooter, headed out to the mainline. Reaching the mainline I scooter up to the Maple leaf and exited via the Bone Room/Big Room line. I placed a spool to the wonder tunnel for my next dive.

1/8/10
Did a single stage swim to the Wonder Tunnel via mainline to the bone room line. Swam the EOL in the wonder tunnel, turned the dive and headed home.

Avg Depth 72'
Max Depth 91'
RT 1hr 29min
BT 1hr 7min

1/17/10
Did a similar dive as on 1/7/10 but with a different buddy. Only difference is we swam to the EOL of July Springs and did not go to the Mud Tunnel.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by atedeschi

It has been awhile since I have posted a dive report, I still have been diving. Now its time to catch up with the reports and I have a map to go with it again. I am still continuing to learn the cave and see all the passages and having a blast doing so.


1/7/10
Did a double stage dive to the back of Ginnie. Swam to where the EOL used to be, turned and took the 2nd T (Old Main Line) on the way to Chapel's Challenge. Swam to about 3800-3900' and turned my dive, picking up my stages on the way out.

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Two questions if I could please.

First, I'm planning to swim to the Hinkle, something I have never done. Could you please comment on your route? Did you swim up Roller Coaster and Hiller Tunnel and back to the main line? Or did you swim main line all the way? Also, where did you drop your two stages?

Second, I think I'm correct in saying you were diving during the 18 degree weather? How did you manage that? I'm guessing you had the place to yourself? I dive wet, so the cold kept me away.

Thanks,
dean

Quote:

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Originally Posted by deanme

Two questions if I could please.

First, I'm planning to swim to the Hinkle, something I have never done. Could you please comment on your route? Did you swim up Roller Coaster and Hiller Tunnel and back to the main line? Or did you swim main line all the way? Also, where did you drop your two stages?

Second, I think I'm correct in saying you were diving during the 18 degree weather? How did you manage that? I'm guessing you had the place to yourself? I dive wet, so the cold kept me away.

Thanks,
dean

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The Roller Coaster is a way to avoid the high current on the mail line. With the current down, that may not help much.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by deanme

Two questions if I could please.

First, I'm planning to swim to the Hinkle, something I have never done. Could you please comment on your route? Did you swim up Roller Coaster and Hiller Tunnel and back to the main line? Or did you swim main line all the way? Also, where did you drop your two stages?

Second, I think I'm correct in saying you were diving during the 18 degree weather? How did you manage that? I'm guessing you had the place to yourself? I dive wet, so the cold kept me away.

Thanks,
dean

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Dean,

If it's any help, typically stage 1 gets people in the 700ft range. I have to drop a bit early because as you know, too far beyond 700ft and you're going to be dropping the stage in the clay. Stage 2 I drop in the 1600ft range near the double domes jump.

I've found roller coaster doesn't really save me any time. I don't have the balls to let myself start doing visual jumps, and putting in 2 jump reels seems to kill any time you save. I can't see any way the hillier tunnel would save time, but I haven't tried it either. However, if you're OK visualling, the roller coaster certainly saves time.

Have you seen the split, insulation rooms, and sweet surprise? They're all prettier than the heinkle and easier to get to if you're swimming.

The one last thing I do differently on these long Ginnie dives is bring 3 o2 bottles between 2 divers. If you really take your time on the way out, especially near the heinkle where it's >100ft in some areas, you'll rack up close to 25-30min of o2 deco, and your buddy wont have enough spare o2 to share if needed due to a failure or stolen o2 bottle.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by deanme

Two questions if I could please.

First, I'm planning to swim to the Hinkle, something I have never done. Could you please comment on your route? Did you swim up Roller Coaster and Hiller Tunnel and back to the main line? Or did you swim main line all the way? Also, where did you drop your two stages?

Second, I think I'm correct in saying you were diving during the 18 degree weather? How did you manage that? I'm guessing you had the place to yourself? I dive wet, so the cold kept me away.

Thanks,
dean

---

As far as route, I did it from mainline, to rollercoaster, back to mainline. As far as stages both times I swam I was on CCR so I had a stage at stage bottle rock and then my lp45s on my person. The other time I was scootering so again it was different. I did it with a buddy who did it on OC. What they did was a setup dive leaving a stage at stage bottle rock. Then on the henkle swim he droped his staged at the rollercoaster jump, went to backgas. Swam to stage bottle rock picked up his stage and continued to the hinkle. The time to do it is now, the flow is down some, put the vis sucks for Ginnie vis. Doesn't clean up till about mainland. Do not take the Hiller it is not faster.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jj1987

Dean,

If it's any help, typically stage 1 gets people in the 700ft range. I have to drop a bit early because as you know, too far beyond 700ft and you're going to be dropping the stage in the clay. Stage 2 I drop in the 1600ft range near the double domes jump.

I've found roller coaster doesn't really save me any time. I don't have the balls to let myself start doing visual jumps, and putting in 2 jump reels seems to kill any time you save. I can't see any way the hillier tunnel would save time, but I haven't tried it either. However, if you're OK visualling, the roller coaster certainly saves time.

Have you seen the split, insulation rooms, and sweet surprise? They're all prettier than the heinkle and easier to get to if you're swimming.

The one last thing I do differently on these long Ginnie dives is bring 3 o2 bottles between 2 divers. If you really take your time on the way out, especially near the heinkle where it's >100ft in some areas, you'll rack up close to 25-30min of o2 deco, and your buddy wont have enough spare o2 to share if needed due to a failure or stolen o2 bottle.

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Thanks for the input.

I almost always take one stage into Ginnie and drop it off around the Hill 400 jump. I dive solo in Ginnie, and having a stage waiting for me at the Hill 400 jump gives me peace of mind in case of an equipment failure. I dive side-mount and always dive thirds, but having an extra tank waiting for me so far back into the cave is nice.

I almost never put in jumps reels while diving Ginnie, so I’ll try the Roller Coaster to save time with the flow on the mainline. I’ll skip the Hillier, and plan on dropping my second stage on the main line sometime after the jump back to the main line from Roller Coaster around Hangers and Weights, depending on when I hit thirds on my second stage.

I’ve never swam to Sweet Surprise. I’ve never been much beyond the main line then the jump to the Double Domes. So I appreciate the input about Sweet Surprise being better then the Heinkle. I’ll target Sweet Surprise instead of the Heinkle.

I agree, it is a bit stressful when you build up 30 or 40 minutes of backgas deco and are somewhat dependent on your O2 bottle. If figure in a pinch I can decompress with my backgas reserve and the reserve in my stage bottle. I almost always go in the Ear and out the Eye, tying off my O2 bottle at the sign in the Gallery, and I can’t imagine anyone who can get to the sign taking an O2 bottle. It would be interesting to hear if anyone has had an O2 bottle stolen, and if so, where it was dropped.

dean

Quote:

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Originally Posted by atedeschi

As far as route, I did it from mainline, to rollercoaster, back to mainline. As far as stages both times I swam I was on CCR so I had a stage at stage bottle rock and then my lp45s on my person. The other time I was scootering so again it was different. I did it with a buddy who did it on OC. What they did was a setup dive leaving a stage at stage bottle rock. Then on the henkle swim he droped his staged at the rollercoaster jump, went to backgas. Swam to stage bottle rock picked up his stage and continued to the hinkle. The time to do it is now, the flow is down some, put the vis sucks for Ginnie vis. Doesn't clean up till about mainland. Do not take the Hiller it is not faster.

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Thanks for the input.

I’ll plan on dropping my second stage off at the Rollercoaster jump back to the mainline. I hear you saying the viz is not the best (for Ginnie conditions)? Does not clean up till mainland? Where is mainland?

Yes, thanks, I’ll skip the Hillier.

dean

Mainland is past sweet surprise before henkle, see the map I attached. The water in sweet surprise has river water mixed in but its still diveable just looks weird at first. Might be a good idea to do the henkle but take notes of were you see jumps and at what distance, then go look at a map make notes and try them on a different dive. When doing that swim you tend to miss some of them because you are focused making head way. I suggest trying to get to the henkle, then turn and look for the jumps on the exit. This way the next time you head that way you will not spend time looking for the jumps or making the wrong one. To give you an idea of vis with 2 lights we could not see wall to wall in the big areas.

Also look back through this thread there are some detials of dives to the henkle and mainland, which might help your planning.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by atedeschi

Mainland is past sweet surprise before henkle, see the map I attached. The water in sweet surprise has river water mixed in but its still diveable just looks weird at first. Might be a good idea to do the henkle but take notes of were you see jumps and at what distance, then go look at a map make notes and try them on a different dive. When doing that swim you tend to miss some of them because you are focused making head way. I suggest trying to get to the henkle, then turn and look for the jumps on the exit. This way the next time you head that way you will not spend time looking for the jumps or making the wrong one. To give you an idea of vis with 2 lights we could not see wall to wall in the big areas.

Also look back through this thread there are some detials of dives to the henkle and mainland, which might help your planning.

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Great input thanks. I'll probably take your advice, and do the Hinkle my first dive that far back.

Bummer about the viz. One reason I like Ginnie is because it almost always has greate viz.

dean

Quote:

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Originally Posted by deanme

Bummer about the viz. One reason I like Ginnie is because it almost always has greate viz.

dean

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Vis at Ginnie was fine at 3 PM today.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jim Wyatt

Vis at Ginnie was fine at 3 PM today.

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Thanks for the input. I'm planning a Ginnie dive this weekend. I understand the river water is still rising? Wow. Has it gotten deep enough at Ginnie where we need to add some helium (Just kidding). I guess I need to be careful in assuming I can get on 100% just under the ledge at the Eye. Might find myself breathing O2 at 25 plus feet.

dean

Quote:

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Originally Posted by deanme

I guess I need to be careful in assuming I can get on 100% just under the ledge at the Eye. Might find myself breathing O2 at 25 plus feet.

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Just tell your computer it is only 90%... http://www.emoticonzone.com/msn-emot.../shakehead.gif

1/28/09
Dave and I swam up the goldline, to the rollercoaster, back the mainline. Continued swimming up the mainline were I droped a bailout at stage bottle rock. At about 2000' we jumped left to a tunnel I have not seen before. This tunnel just jumped around back to the mainline at about 1900'. We continued up the goldline until we reached sweet surprise. The water in sweet surprise was tantic and not as clear as I have seen in the past. We swam to the turtle tunnel and turn our dive.

Max Depth 108'
Avg Depth 84'
BT 2hr 40min
RT 3hrs 43min

1/29/09
The plan today was to learn the lines behind the henkle. Dave and I again swam the same route as yesterday. Once pass the Henkle, we jumped to the Henkle Bypass line, came to the T and went right for a little ways. We then turned, swam back to the T and went the other direction looking for the SSS tunnel, which we missed and popped back out in the Berman Room. At this point we swam to the last T and turned the dive.

Vis was not normal for Ginnie, the Bone Room/Big Room area seemed worse to. But Jim said it was ok on the weekend so guess you'll have to dive to find out.

Max Depth 114'
Avg Depth 95'
BT 2hrs 50 min
RT 4hrs 14 min

The water level dropped an inch or so between Monday & Tuesday.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by atedeschi

1/28/09
Vis was not normal for Ginnie..

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I have an alibi. I was in California, I swear.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by aainslie

I have an alibi. I was in California, I swear.

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Sure, of course you were! Finally perfected that wormhole technology, eh? :smt081

Finally made my way back up to Ginnie after a few months. Made it up there Friday night and did a SM dive to the wormhole and out to the top of the hill 400. On the way out we did the bypasses and exited the cave. It was a nice shake down dive to get back in the cave.

Saturday the plan was to do a dive on the breather to get ready for the Nest. Plan was to swim up to the insulation room, and exit thru the hiller tunnel. Marson and I geared up headed in and when we reached the gallery, his ADV was not working. After playing around with it for about 15 minutes we decieded just to do a short dive and swam to the white room. Flow is up from last I was at ginnie more like normal and vis was way better to. The view on deco wasn't that bad at all either.

Since having issues with the breather, the nest was scrubbed for sunday and we were going to dive ginnie again. Sunday's dive was to scooter to sweet surprise and do the mainland circuit. Scootered up to mainland dropped a stage bottle, then scootered back to the sweet surprise jump. Before making the jump there was a breather issue so we called the dive. I scootered back to our stage picked it up and headed out.

Even though we didn't do are planned dives, but still had a great weekend at ginnie, caught up with some friends.

BTW the person that removed my line that has been in the tunnel between the mainline and july, why was it removed? and give me my arrows back.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by atedeschi

BTW the person that removed my line that has been in the tunnel between the mainline and july, why was it removed? and give me my arrows back.

---

Well, I'm sure it has nothing to do with the fact that you left it in place for

Quote:

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Originally Posted by atedeschi

a few months. .

---

and it probably also has nothing to do with the fact that Jeff Hancock likes to keep the cave clean.

It was a line i put in and cut back so it could not bee seen from other lines and is not marked on any map. I dont think hancock took it out either.

After a long few months (since may), I finally got back to go cave diving at Ginnie. Since no one wanted to dive peacock with me :(

Anyway we arrived at ginnie around 830am, checked in and headed down to the roost. There was one other vehicle parked there already, no one insight and another car pulled in after us. I knew it was going to be a slow day, especially since the air temp was 27 F

For dive 1 we decided to make it easy and just do a single stage and if we had enough time check out I passage we had not been into yet.

We entered through the ear, flow defiantly felt down. I could hover in the entrance with barely having to kick. We dropped our O2 at the sign and swam up to the hill 400 jump. Here we placed a spool for are return and then got back on the goldline where we left our stages a little past the jump. Continuing up the GL we reached the roller coaster and placed our line next to but out of the way of some other diver's line we had not seen yet today. Heading up the roller coaster line I noticed a line off to the left, is this the sm tunnel on berman's map and does it connect back to mainline? Vis at this point seemed great no haze or anything in the water. Reaching the shortcut, we followed it to the bats. At this point we still were under are turn pressure, so we rode the flow to what i am calling the bat circuit. I placed a spool over the 1ft gap and we followed this line back to the bats. Very cool part of the cave and gets alil low but not bad. After making it back to the bats we rode the flow out picking up the spool at the start of the bats circuit, we continued back just checking things out on our way back to the goldline. I split from my buddy at the double lines and took that to the July springs line while he continued down the hill, where we eventually met up before the goldline. At this point we pulled are spool, went back up GL, grabbed stages and headed out.
BT: 1hr 7min
Avg Depth: 82'
Deco: 7min
Speed out: 71 fpm

SI 2 hr 12 min

After eating some lunch and refilling our tanks, we decided on a plane of attack. This time we went in with no stages, in through the ear again, dropped O2 and continued up the GL. We went up to the rollercoaster to pull my spool from the first dive, then we went with the flow to the mud tunnels jump. Making a hard left we jumped into the smaller of the two mud tunnels, reaching the eol we jumped to the big room. At this point we rode the flow down to the wonder tunnel jump. The vis in the big room- bone room was wall to wall with a 10 watt light. Jumping to the wonder tunnel line we made are way to the Eol and a tiny lizard greeted us (don't remember seeing him last year but gave a good laugh). The vis was good in the wonder tunnel but there was brown globs all over the floor which I thought was unusual. The dive was turned and we headed out exiting by the park bench. Back on the mainline I took a small detour and exited through the keyhole bypass, meeting my buddy before the lips. The rest of the dive was relaxing and uneventful.
BT: 56 min
Avg Depth: 79 ft
Deco: 3 min

All in all a great day!!!