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In my recent class, I had an incident where a fin came off, and I lost my balance and put my hands in the silt. This was in an area that wasn't clay, but just that fine, fluffy brown silt. I have gotten a bunch of grief for damaging the cave, and I'm wondering how long marks in the silt like that will persist? I know in MX, I've seen marks last over a year, but the caves in MX don't flood and have less flow.
Anybody have any idea how long my "damage" is going to be there to bother other people?
During my training a couple years ago there was a place in Orange Grove where it looked like someone had used the bottem to pull themselves along. Hand indentions every three or four feet for a ways. I asked my instructor and he said they might stay for years if there were never any big floods (hadn't been one at this time for a few years) Haven't been to OG since so don't know if they are still there.
He also said there was one instructor who would sometimes do a dive with a brick trowel to smooth the bad spots over some.
There are some areas of Ginnie where line was removed a LONG time ago. You can still see drag marks in that area. Admittedly it could be people like me going there much later, but I suspect many of those marks are from over a decade ago.
You guys aren't making me feel any better . . . :)
Seriously?
I would suggest some practice in OW popping fins off etc, even if your off balance you should be able to avoid hand planting, just "roll" with it, lil practice and you'll be good, so, I wouldn't worry about the damage you did, worry about preventing more.
Lynne, I know this happened in Hole. Do you remember the area you were in? damage can sometimes be "fixed". I'd be happy to head back there and do what I can. Depending on the extent, it might take a few dives, but I'm willing to sacrifice my time diving Hole for this purpose. ;) Seriously, I "fix" marks pretty regularly. All it takes is some fanning over the area to pick up the silt and let it settle back in to fill in the mark. It blows out visibility for a little while, but I usually do it on the exit in the latter half of the day.
Probably not a bad idea as Hole won't just flood over and fix itself in any short period of time... unless the flow picks up a bit. Since the dam controls the water levels(atleast to an extent) the cave doesn't get any really big nasty siphons like river influenced systems.
A lot can depend on the cave. Somewhere like Ginnie that very rarely floods will show marks in the bottom far longer than our lifetime. Places like Peacock and Little River that flood very easily get an influx of organic material that can fill in some of the smaller incidental marks,but usually not a deep divot. There are things that can be done to repair an incidental contact mark,but caution needs to be exercised since there is a good potential of doing more damage.Quote:
Originally Posted by LCF
Lynne, I would assume that if that fluffy silt probably is going to fix itself just by the nature of the fluffy silt. I would be more concerned with clay.Quote:
Originally Posted by LCF
It depends also what part of the cave you were in. In the past year, I have noticed in the caves that have reversals, some marks in silt get deleted with the flood.
I wrote to David to find out exactly where we were -- I think we had done two jumps to the right, but honestly, I didn't take notes that afternoon so I'm not sure. (By that time, I was too depressed to be recording things much.)
Those same people who are giving you crap for leaving a mark have most likely all left their marks on a cave before. While no one should encourage trashing a cave, I think there is a difference between trashing a cave and making a small accidental movement that leaves slight damage, while you learn from the situation and improve your diving technique. If your buddies are harrassing you for not being some cave diving goddess, I'd suggest finding people who will be more supportive. Never met you but from the tone of your posts, I can tell that you are one who learns from her mistakes, and therefore any damage you leave is different from an idiot who is trashing a cave, and I don't think you deserve to take crap for a small mistake like that. (I figure it's probably just normal buddy-to-buddy hassling, but don't let it get to you. You mentioned being too depressed to remember anything...if cave diving is depressing, that's a problem. Even the worst dives I've ever had have never left me depressed.)
Now, if you happened to be the idiot who left footprints at one spot in Ginnie... but I don't think that was you.
Cave diving isn't depressing, but the class was.
It was more than a tiny handprint -- I think I went up to my elbow in the silt!
Ah, that is pretty...impressive... :D I really don't think any class should be depressing. I've got to admit, I'm really not an amazing diver. I've made my fair share of mistakes. I've left marks in caves. But neither my instructor nor my dive buddy has ever made me feel depressed about a dive, no matter how dumb the mistakes might have been. I've been scolded, but the scolding was delivered as part of constructive criticism, so I was always left feeling like I had room for improvement and could leave the mistakes of the day behind me once I'd learned from them.
jah, her report is on divematrix...give it a look.
Were you upstream or downstream? Did you tie onto a gold line the began on the ceiling of a duck under or on the floor of a limestone bank? I'm guessing downstream if you were off the mainline. The upstream jumps shouldn't be used in training dives and wouldn't really accommodate 4 divers.Quote:
Originally Posted by LCF
You know, I just don't remember. We did so many dives in so many different systems, and I didn't take notes (my bad), and by that day, I was so tired and discouraged that my memory just isn't real clear. I'm hoping David will respond to my e-mail, so I can let you know where we were.
You just destroyed about 1,000,000,000 years of ecological, astrological and metereological records... Your SCUBA license needs to be revoked immediately...
You are not the first and will not be the last to do this. Don't sweat it.
training can be depressing. i don't think a day went by that I wasn't depressed - about my performance, the lack of it that is. every day i asked whether it was worth it and every day at some point i decided i was going to quit ... right after this next dive. each night i thought long and hard about continuing and went to sleep leaving the decision until morning after a good night's sleep.Quote:
Originally Posted by JahJahwarrior
-skip
Glad to know I'm not the only one! The only thing that kept me in this class after the third day was the fact that I was sharing a car with a classmate, so I had no way to the airport without him . . . :)Quote:
training can be depressing. i don't think a day went by that I wasn't depressed - about my performance, the lack of it that is. every day i asked whether it was worth it and every day at some point i decided i was going to quit ... right after this next dive. each night i thought long and hard about continuing and went to sleep leaving the decision until morning after a good night's sleep.
I heard from my instructor -- he says he's going to be diving there next month, and will do what he can to fix the damage.
You are not the first and will not be the last to do this. Don't sweat it
Agree fully.
So long as man is present in a passageway, accidents will happen, if not now, later. The only passageways or caves kept in pristine shape are those that are not widely publicized or kept secret by the locals. What matters is intent not that injury happens, and your cave diving skills will minimize it, not eliminate it. Look at any line laid and you'll see the marks on the mud, if not the erosions on the cave wall were the line cuts into the limestone, or erosions in the ceiling due to bubble percolation or the wholesale scrap marks on the cave floor, walls and ceilings in tight passages like the commonly used Lips Bypass at Devil's cave. Relax, dive safe, then insure skills are mastered before venturing deeper into the cave system to keep the cave safe for you, as well as safe from you.