Cave Diving History

It's been two weeks since the last new post on the Cave Diving History forum. I check it every day hoping that some of you old timers will log on and add to the historical record.

In some of my other areas of historical interest, the people involved have been dead for decades or centuries. We have to try to infer what actually happened from the information that's available. Cave diving is young enough that a lot of the folks who were in at the beginning are still around - now's your chance to pass it on in your own words.

At the risk of sounding like a five year old - tell us some stories!

Thanks,

Mike

PS - Tracy sometimes tells me I act like a five year old...maybe I do!

"I don' wanna go to work! I wanna go cave diving! Waanh!"

I agree, Mike. Although some newer cave divers think I've been at this awhile, I only started in 1996. What I need to do is get my instructor to sign up and make some posts.

Anybody that has any stories from ten or more years ago, POST THEM!

OK, I will post something :-)

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Originally Posted by FW

OK, I will post something :-)

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More than one, I hope!

Mike

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Originally Posted by Slüdge

I agree, Mike. Although some newer cave divers think I've been at this awhile, I only started in 1996. What I need to do is get my instructor to sign up and make some posts.

Anybody that has any stories from ten or more years ago, POST THEM!

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Why wouldn't your history be relevant? I imagine a lot has changed since then and would be interesting.

Even knowing what questions to ask about history could start a nice thread I imagine.

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Originally Posted by Slüdge

Although some newer cave divers think I've been at this awhile, I only started in 1996.

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I only started in 2004, so to me you're a salty, grizzled old veteran! :)

Mike



Last night at a class I was teaching, one of the bright eyed young paramedics asked me when I finished paramedic school. When I told them 1979 they had to point out that the oldest among the dozen or so of them was born in 1982...

I am not an oldie *well -depends on who you ask * but I have a bunch of Canadian and UK stuff to post.I just have not had time but hopefully will in the next couple weeks.

I am surprised as the site is amazing-I thought it was going to be a editors nightmare of way too many new posts.

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Originally Posted by FW

OK, I will post something :-)

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Yes, tell us about painting the buffalo on the walls of the caves in France. Tell us about the days before iron was available. I can tell you about trembling in fear as the iron horse sped across the plains.

Damn, some of these people make me feel old!

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Originally Posted by OFG-1

Yes, tell us about painting the buffalo on the walls of the caves in France.

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Yep, that was the first ever sump dive :rollguy

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Originally Posted by FW

Yep, that was the first ever sump dive :rollguy

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Forrest, damn vandels, do you want me to fix those walls too.
MA

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Originally Posted by MichaelAngelo

Forrest, damn vandels, do you want me to fix those walls too.
MA

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ROFLMAO! Thanks, you made my choke on my tea!

MichaelAngelo, the story of your repairs in Cow would make a good post on the history forum - even though it's recent, it's still a historic accomplishment.

Mike

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Originally Posted by OFG-1

Yes, tell us about painting the buffalo on the walls of the caves in France.

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I was looking at a book of the Lascaux cave paintings not long ago - I'm almost sure that among the images of buffalo and horses I saw a painting of a sump diver with a long beard!


Mike

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Originally Posted by MORGAN

I was looking at a book of the Lascaux cave paintings not long ago - I'm almost sure that among the images of buffalo and horses I saw a painting of a sump diver with a long beard!


Mike

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Yup and wasn't he chipping a cave arrow out of a piece of flint???? :rollguy

Orange Grove 1966

http://www.cavediver.net/forum/galle...8/9/orange.jpg

that's rad!

That is really cool. Is that what they refer to in old movies as "Technicolor"?

Jeff

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Originally Posted by Puttzer

Orange Grove 1966

http://www.cavediver.net/forum/galle...8/9/orange.jpg

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Know who the divers are?

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Originally Posted by imdown

Know who the divers are?

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These guys and I dove "regularly" in the late 60's while we were in college. Both divers quit in the 70's.

They were from the Tallahassee area.

i hope he carried a backup snorkel!

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Originally Posted by Puttzer

Orange Grove 1966

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is there a photo section on the Cave Diving History website? If so, that should definitely go on there.

What is the link to the cave diving history website?

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Originally Posted by LiteHedded

i hope he carried a backup snorkel!

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Actually we used our snorkels. We dove small single tanks and tended to breathe almost all the air by the time we exited. Almost half going in! So we would breathe with our snorkel in the runs or whatever till we actually dropped down into the springs. And yes we'd even use them in air pockets.

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Originally Posted by Serota

What is the link to the cave diving history website?

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http://cavedivinghistory.com/

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Originally Posted by Puttzer

Actually we used our snorkels. We dove small single tanks and tended to breathe almost all the air by the time we exited. Almost half going in! So we would breathe with our snorkel in the runs or whatever till we actually dropped down into the springs. And yes we'd even use them in air pockets.

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if you have any more pics I'd love to see them

The old pictures are great, thanks for sharing.

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Originally Posted by FW

OK, I will post something :-)

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OK, I have posted a real story.

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Originally Posted by FW

OK, I have posted a real story.

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Don't have to be a real story. Grampa used to say the beauty of being the oldest one around is that you can make up anything you want and the youngsters will believe it. Hell last man standing gets to make the history up.

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Originally Posted by MichaelAngelo

Don't have to be a real story. Grampa used to say the beauty of being the oldest one around is that you can make up anything you want and the youngsters will believe it. Hell last man standing gets to make the history up.

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That wasn't the kind of "real" I meant :-)
I meant real, as opposed to the link I put to the old copies of UWS.

What is more bizarre is I just went to see if anybody commented about my story, and it wasn't there anymore. I just re-posted it, and if I vanishes again, then maybe I better change the name of the story :roll:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by FW

That wasn't the kind of "real" I meant :-)
I meant real, as opposed to the link I put to the old copies of UWS.

What is more bizarre is I just went to see if anybody commented about my story, and it wasn't there anymore. I just re-posted it, and if I vanishes again, then maybe I better change the name of the story :roll:

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So what you're saying is that you *did* make the story up? :smt079

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Originally Posted by FW

if it vanishes again, then maybe I better change the name of the story

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See what happens when I'm finally higher up than you on the totem pole? :rollguy

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Originally Posted by Squirrel Girl

So what you're saying is that you *did* make the story up? :smt079

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Well, you do know the difference between a fairy tale and a sea story?

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Originally Posted by OFG-1

Well, you do know the difference between a fairy tale and a sea story?

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Sailors don't get happy endings?

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Originally Posted by MichaelAngelo

Sailors don't get happy endings?

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Well, a fairy tale begins "Once Upon a Time..."
A sea story begins "Listen, this is no s**t..."

Some Sailors do get happy endings.......in massage parlors!

FWIW: a few years ago I approached the cave diving museum at a NACD conference. I offered pictures to them from the 60'e but they were totally disinterested. I left stunned.

Nevertheless, I later donated substantial $ to them and got a simple thank you.

It seems to me they are only interested in the "Gainesville crowd"

But most cave divers were recreational and not just from Gainesville.

Too bad history takes a back seat to "politics".

Puttzer

I really dig the old photos, don't care who's in them and where they are from :) Thanks for posting what you did and if you have more, bring em on!

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Originally Posted by FW

OK, I have posted a real story.

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Since some people didn't see the new story:

http://www.cavedivinghistory.com/for...splay.php?f=73

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Originally Posted by Puttzer

FWIW: a few years ago I approached the cave diving museum at a NACD conference. I offered pictures to them from the 60'e but they were totally disinterested. I left stunned.

Nevertheless, I later donated substantial $ to them and got a simple thank you.

It seems to me they are only interested in the "Gainesville crowd"

But most cave divers were recreational and not just from Gainesville.

Too bad history takes a back seat to "politics".

Puttzer

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Wow, you must have talked to the wrong person, or maybe they were having a bad day. The museum is very interested is stuff like that.

My father dived caves all over FL in the 60's and early 70's. Some well known artifacts discovered. Most places can no longer be accessed for diving. I have plenty of pictures. I think a few may even be published. Paleontology type of stuff .

Here is a story,
He was on rescue missions to find missing divers. All that were found were found with masks removed and air in the tanks. Do you know why?

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Originally Posted by CaveDiver1932

My father dived caves all over FL in the 60's and early 70's. Some well known artifacts discovered. Most places can no longer be accessed for diving. I have plenty of pictures. I think a few may even be published. Paleontology type of stuff .

Here is a story,
He was on rescue missions to find missing divers. All that were found were found with masks removed and air in the tanks. Do you know why?

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A little more detail might help. What year? What cave? Your father's name?

I've tried to post old photos on the Cave Diving History pages but the allowable size is way too small. I've sent a suggestion to the webmaster to enlarge the allowable file but received no reply and the file size remained the same. I'm sure old photos would improve the site and draw a bigger readership.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by FW

A little more detail might help. What year? What cave? Your father's name?

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Not sure I should post his name public?? Do you know any history of FL Diving from the 60's and 70's? He dove many years with the man who owned the dive shop in Ormond Beach. The one that had the old anchor out front. They found that anchor and brought it up off the cost. I believe the anchor has been moved.

Another hint, have you heard about Pricilla the mastodon?
I have lots of photos my father scanned in from slides. He also narrated some of movies he converted from film. Not sure if folks are interested, but I saw this thread and commented. There were so many caves and some had no names at the time. I probably could get some of the names off his narrated videos and side shows.





Here is an old photo of him:
http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h1...h/scan0045.jpg

Oh,
There was more than one recovery over that time, but one I remember was at a cave at or around ponce de leon springs and after that (there had been many accidents) they grated off the entrance to the cave. I do not believe my father found them but was on the team. Not sure if they were all found. For some reason I do not think they were. It was a very bad cave with bad silt. My understanding it was not a adventure cave anyway. I believe these divers were from out of state. This is from memory from so many years ago, so I could have some of it wrong.

I love hearing about this stuff and would love to hear more stories and see more photos!

1932.... Is your Dad's name Don?
Priscilla was the give-a-way.

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Originally Posted by stonecold

1932.... Is your Dad's name Don?
Priscilla was the give-a-way.

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Don is not my father, but my dad dove with him for years both in flordia and the islands. I thought that would be a good clue. Not 100% sure, but don prob took that picture.

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Originally Posted by metaldector

I've tried to post old photos on the Cave Diving History pages but the allowable size is way too small. I've sent a suggestion to the webmaster to enlarge the allowable file but received no reply and the file size remained the same. I'm sure old photos would improve the site and draw a bigger readership.

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I second this as I tried to put some photos from the 50's and 60's on here a couple of weeks ago from my family and could not due to the size constraints.
Other sites let bigger photo files go up why not this one...?

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Originally Posted by WEPIV

I second this as I tried to put some photos from the 50's and 60's on here a couple of weeks ago from my family and could not due to the size constraints.
Other sites let bigger photo files go up why not this one...?

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I will ask.

email me the photos and I can compress them for you?

Nice offer to compress photos but if the file size was increased that wouldn't be necessary. The fix is in increasing the allowable file size for posting photos, not sending the photo to someone else to compress.

On posting photos, you can use photobucket or similar and then post the pictures.

Here are a few more photos.
Back in the 60’s and 70’s to get to the dive spots it was an off road adventure. There was two vans used over the years for the dive trips. Here is the newer one:

http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h1...ving/120cr.jpg

The trips started out early in the morning (Notice the paneling on the roof.. nice touch):
http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h1...ving/162cr.jpg


Without chains and a wench, you would be bound to get stranded. Here is typical headaches that occurred to get to the sights:


http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h1...ving/109cr.jpg
(Edit to add video narration)
On the way to another sight with the newer van and got stuck and the battery blew up. Good thing he wore glasses.
http://www.vimeo.com/8112699



This old van did pretty well:
http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h1...ving/161cr.jpg

(Edit to add video narration)
Stuck on the way to Eagle’s Nest Narrated. Sorry about the sound quality, you may need headphones to hear:
http://www.vimeo.com/8112667

Eagle’s Nest Today:
http://www.floridacaves.com/eagles.htm

The headache was worth it for the find:
http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h1...ving/125cr.jpg
http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h1...iving/87cr.jpg

these are just fantastic

Friggin awesome! :D

Great pics !!!!

In case you missed the edit above were I added narrated video of pictures,

Stuck on the way to Eagle’s Nest Narrated. Sorry about the sound quality, you may need headphones to hear:
http://www.vimeo.com/8112667

Eagle’s Nest Today:
http://www.floridacaves.com/eagles.htm

On the way to another sight with the newer van and got stuck and the battery blew up. Good thing he wore glasses.
http://www.vimeo.com/8112699

Hope you enjoy.
I have a bunch more like this with diving. If anyone is familiar with the anchor that was outside a TV/Scuba shop for many years on A-1A in Ormond Beach FL, I have the narration of where it came from. That anchor was move some years go now, but still is on display in the Daytona Beach area.

I can only go back to 1984 when I started cave diving (stated caving in 1977).

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y184/AMWard/silica.jpg

This was taken on a training dive in the silica mines south Wales in 1984. A good introduction to cave diving as it required a 2Km walk in and a lot of that up hill as well as 8C water temperature :smt100

Andrew

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Originally Posted by CaveDiver1932

[SIZE=3

The headache was worth it for the find:[/SIZE][/FONT]
http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h1...ving/125cr.jpg
http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h1...iving/87cr.jpg

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What are those black things pictured ?

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Originally Posted by tecterri

What are those black things pictured ?

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I’m no expert, but from what I know there were Mastodon and Mammoth elephant remains found in that area. Going by the teeth, I would suspect this is a Mammoth lower jaw bone.

Hi everyone.

I went in and updated the vBulletin software at www.cavedivinghistory.com to accept photos and such up to 5mb. If anyone wants to be a moderator at www.cavedivinghistory.com just ask FW, Slüdge, Kelly, or me.

Take care,

Bill

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Originally Posted by Bill Oigarden

Hi everyone.

I went in and updated the vBulletin software at www.cavedivinghistory.com to accept photos and such up to 5mb. If anyone wants to be a moderator at www.cavedivinghistory.com just ask FW, Slüdge, Kelly, or me.

Take care,

Bill

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FW, Bill,
Would you rather have these stories here or on cave diver history?

Hi CaveDIver1932,

You ask a great question. Kelly and I compiled the original posts. We hope www.cavedivinghistory.com will have a wide appeal globally. Where to put all this info is probably a question for all of us.

Maybe we should have a poll. Both www.cavedivinghistory.com and the CDF are hosted by the same guy TommyB . I have thought of a couple of things since we launched this summer. 1) About once a week/month we get someone who creates new member and then a spam post. Not too hard to delete. 2) There are some posts we have to check for copyright infringement. For instance can be post scans of old newspaper articles?

What does everyone else think?

Bill

btw, thanks for the photos in this post. I really enjoyed the van getting moved along with a ComeAlong. Is that Jenny (Ginnie) or Eagles Nest? Believe it or not the road in Jenny used to look like that. But you know that.

"I went in and updated the www.cavedivinghistory.com to accept photos and such up to 5mb.
Bill"

Thanks Bill!

CaveDIver1932,
Are you the lady drug rep. I talked to at my Docs office???? If so gald you found the site if not sorry nice pics,stories

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Originally Posted by CaveDiver1932

FW, Bill,
Would you rather have these stories here or on cave diver history?

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Hard question. It is OK to post them here, but eventually they will get lost amidst all the other posts. History stuff should be posted on the history site too, even if it is a duplicate of what is here.

I've pretty much read everything I can get my hands on with respect to cave diving history and I think it's wonderful that this documentation effort is underway. I'm wondering, however, if vBulletin (which is geared towards discussion of topics) is the best application for this kind of thing? There are a few other applications that are more geared towards the publication of stories (WordPress, Media Wiki, etc) that I think may work better. I do this stuff for a living, and I am happy to volunteer my time, effort and server resources if folks think it might be useful.

My site: http://spiralbound.net, or my wife's http://twistedstitches.net are examples of Word Press.
Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.com (albeit heavily modified) is an example of Media Wiki.

Both these software applications are ideal for collaboration amongst many people on single, published stories.

What do you guys think? I maintain collocated Solaris 10 server resources in a really nice Sillicon Valley data center and I would be happy to put up some prototypes if folks are interested in investigating these options.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bill Oigarden

Hi CaveDIver1932,
btw, thanks for the photos in this post. I really enjoyed the van getting moved along with a ComeAlong. Is that Jenny (Ginnie) or Eagles Nest? Believe it or not the road in Jenny used to look like that. But you know that.

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Thanks Bill,
I really would not know as I was probably 5-7 years old at the time. I got the name of the Eagle’s Nest from my father’s narration of the slide. There is also a slide of Ginnie in the bunch. The narration was done 90’s so it could be he got mixed up, but I have no way of being sure. I do know he made several statements over time that some slides were out of order. When he got to the Ginnie spring slide he pause and said there are many beautiful springs/caves in FL, but people would not listen.. .. alluding to many un necessary deaths. Not sure if that cave brought back memories or just speaking in general about FL caves. I hope to get more up soon. If needed we can posts in more than one spot.

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Originally Posted by Reddiver

CaveDIver1932,
Are you the lady drug rep. I talked to at my Docs office???? If so gald you found the site if not sorry nice pics,stories

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Not me. I'm my father's son shown in my first post. What did the lady say? We may have common connections.

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Originally Posted by crpearson

What do you guys think? I maintain collocated Solaris 10 server resources in a really nice Sillicon Valley data center and I would be happy to put up some prototypes if folks are interested in investigating these options.

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I'm open. I thought it would be nice to share my father's passion.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by CaveDiver1932

I’m no expert, but from what I know there were Mastodon and Mammoth elephant remains found in that area. Going by the teeth, I would suspect this is a Mammoth lower jaw bone.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by CaveDiver1932

Here are a few more photos.
Back in the 60’s and 70’s to get to the dive spots it was an off road adventure. There was two vans used over the years for the dive trips. Here is the newer one:
This old van did pretty well:
http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h1...ving/161cr.jpg


The headache was worth it for the find:
http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h1...ving/125cr.jpg
http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h1...iving/87cr.jpg

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by tecterri

What are those black things pictured ?

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That jaw was not found at the nest. I believe it was found at the Aucilla River site. from what I know there were Mastodon and Mammoth elephant remains found in that area. Going by the teeth, I would suspect this is a Mammoth lower jaw bone.

Sorry about the confusion. I just put a few photos about how hard it was to get to the dive sites back then and some of the rewords. I hope to get more in depth pictures and stories up shortly.

The CDG library holds logs and records going back to the original work by Balcombe and Shepard in the 1930,s The CDG site has CDG news letters (Magazine) on line going back to the early 1960,s (only available to members)

Andrew

Dive at Zuber sink later named 40 Fathoms

Any cave divers use old Clorox jugs for lift? Notice the two different types of lights. Do you still take two lights these days?

Zuber Sink 240ft deep. When you go down you use doubles and you get heaver the further you go down..,Your wet suit compresses.. Blow the jug full of air (about 1.5gal) (it will lift over 10lbs) and it will bring you up like an elevator. If you come up two fast dump a little air out and you will slow down. A very cheep way of not expending too much energy and at 240ft you do not want to expend too much energy. A light on the left and a motorcycle battery light on the right (middle)..always take extra lights..
Short Narrated Video Clip: http://www.vimeo.com/8113909

http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h1...iving/97cr.jpg

Actually, Zuber was renamed "40 Fathoms".

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Originally Posted by FW

Actually, Zuber was renamed "40 Fathoms".

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thanks for the correction. My spelling is awful..
However video narration is correct.

The Tusk Recovery Trip early 70’s
Narrated Video: http://www.vimeo.com/8122389

As normal, the weekend dive trip started out very early in the famous TV repair van. With my father driving, they headed to the Kissimmee river to recover a prehistoric elephant tusk.
http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h1...ving/162cr.jpg

When they got there, they unloaded the fancy john boat and powerful motor to take them to the site:
http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h1...Trip/163cr.jpg

This shot was taken on the way up to the site. Nice scenery.
http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h1...0098cropCr.jpg

The tusk was located just about the middle of the river in the picture:
http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h1...Trip/164cr.jpg

Underwater recovery of the prehistoric elephant tusk artifact:
Here they are removing the river bottom dirt and debris from around the tusk. About two inches of the tip of the tusk was sticking out of the river bottom. The rest was buried in the mud and sand. Most divers would have swam right by the tusk thinking it was just an old log.
http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h1...Trip/165cr.jpg

While removing the mud and sand away from the tusk, it became difficult to take photographs due to the debris clouding up the water.

Off to the left of the tusk, they found a mammoth hip bone. Don’s Rolex watch is sitting on it to give some contrast and reference to the size of the hip bone.
http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h1...Trip/167cr.jpg

Back to the tusk - the tusk is starting to come out. Notice the color and erosion on the tip that was sticking up out of the river bottom.
http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h1...Trip/169cr.jpg


Using his body and his Rolex watch as a reference, my father shows the size of the tusk. The tip of the tusk is off to the left. The tusk is over nine feet from tip to the nerve end.
http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h1...Trip/170cr.jpg

They were unable to get the whole tusk in a photo because if they backed-up too far, the silt in the water would block out the tusk. This is the best they could do:
http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h1...Trip/171cr.jpg

They took off all their life vests and wrapped them around the tusk.
They then filled-up their life vests with air and lifted the tusk off the bottom to the surface of the river.
http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h1...Trip/172cr.jpg


Here are a couple of photographs of my father with the tusk on the bank:
http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h1...0096cropCr.jpg
http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h1...0097cropCr.jpg

Here is the tusk sitting wrapped behind an old truck and sitting on the base of the frame they made for it:
http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h1...Trip/173cr.jpg

Once they got it back to the shop, they made a case and plaster of Paris mold for it to sit. Here is a picture of my father with the tusk at the shop:
http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h1...Trip/175cr.jpg

Don with the tusk:
http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h1...Trip/174cr.jpg

Not sure where the tusk ended up. Hopefully it is on display some place for all to see.
One of the few artifacts I actually saw in person. I believe The Shop was a no kid zone.

Hope you enjoy.

Very cool, please keep them coming!

I have put together another dive recovery trip from the early 70’s. However it is an open water recovery. Would like to view the trip? Post it in this thread or new thread? Or not at all since it is an open water trip?

Most of the divers in this story are cave divers and well known even today in the Daytona Beach FL area.

This thread already takes a long time to load.

Accident: Florida, Devil's Eye Spring February 7, 1977
Edward Brodesser (28yrs) and James Ketrow entered Devil's Eye Spring on the Santa Fe River in Gilchrist County, Florida at 12:35 p.m. on Monday, February 7. In the cavern they became confused and found themselves separated. Ketrow started back out and found Brodesser, drowned. Bringing Brodesser to the surface, lie attempted artificial respiration, then called for help from nearby persons. The High Springs Rescue Unit was summoned, arrived, and took the victim to the Shands Medical Center where lie was pronounced dead.
Reference: Anon. "Twenty-Eight Year Old Tampa Police Detective Loses Life Diving in Gilchrist County's Devil's Eye Spring" Gilchrist County Journal Thursday, February 10, 1977.
Analysis: Underwater cave exploration is very dangerous even when done properly. In this case it is obvious even from the limited information that they were not using safety lines to define their route.

James Ketrow was my open water SCUBA instructor and he was untrained in cave diving. If I recall, Brodesser was an assistant o/w instructor at the time. This incident occurred while I was taking the o/w class, but I was not at Ginnie when it happened. My father bought me a dive watch from the local dive shop when I finished the class. I found out later that it belonged to Brodesser and he was wearing it when he drowned. I used the watch for 3 or 4 years until it crapped out.

Not much positive history here, but it did help motivate me to get basic cave certified in 86 and full cave in 88.

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Originally Posted by SuPrBuGmAn

Very cool, please keep them coming!

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Yes indeed, very cool !

I knew Jim Ketrow, met him at the original World of Water on Kennedy in Tampa, in 1978. He got badly bent trying to bring Brodesser out of Devils Eye. He left the shop for greener pastures, as did Will Walters, who mentored me in regulator repair there at the same time. Will was the one, with Bill Cass, who discovered the DiePolder sinks, as well as Buford Sink. I was fortunate enough to dive with these guys then, and through them mneet and dive with Sheck, Mary Ellen Eckhoff, Bill Main, Jamie Stone, Dale Sweet, Jim Lockwood, Steve Foreman, and many other old timers. Will and I even dove together in the past few years at Buford, the Nest, and out in the Gulf. He's the best conditioned 66 year old you could possible meet, as well...still in great shape.

Phreaticus,
Yep. World of Water on Kennedy was where I got o/w certified in 77, they later moved to a new place with an indoor pool. Jim was a nice guy, although he liked his wine and women quite a bit. I remember he was often late and hungover when we headed out on a Saturday or Sunday morning dive trip. Will was probably at WoW when I got certified, but I don't remember him.