Poll for the NSS portion of the CDS membership
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Poll for the NSS portion of the CDS membership
Wow! 100 percent! The membership has spoken!
Okay, I know it won't last. :smt013
I have no choice in being both NSS and CDS since I'm paid in full lifer. But given the option when I signed up...it would have been the portion CDS only.
I wasn't thrilled about having to get the NSS membership when I signed up but I have to say that in the time since I signed up last year I've gotten all kinds of materials from NSS... not so much from CDS (save for several variations of the board ballot). I totally signed up for the magazines =)
There is already an organization for cave divers that do not want to be NSS members. It is called the NACD.
Nuff said!
But I really like diving Cow... that alone is worth the price of membership.Quote:
Originally Posted by rblackburn
Exactly.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoska
Well, since I was an NSS life member before there was a Cave Diving Section, I may not count, but I think the benefits easily are worth the extra money.
I am also an NACD member, both organizations have things to offer.
I was just refering to the fact that if you didn't want to join the NSS, there was another cave diving organization. There are benefits to joining the CDS, access to the caves is one, and if you want to join the CDS, NSS membership is a requirement, and think it should remain.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoska
But that said, I was a life member of the NSS before I started cave diving.
As a protest against having to join the NSS, I only pay up when I'm going to a workshop. If I don't go to the workshop one year, I'll let my membership lapse. I'll remain a non-member until I decide to go to another workshop, then I'll pay up. If I go to this year's it will be the first time I've been to two in a row.
I think it's ridiculous to force me to join a group in which I have ABSOLUTELY NO INTEREST.
If they were to change the rules and allow me to join the CDS only, I'd go ahead and get a Life Membership.
How can you state that you are interested in caves, but have no interest in the caving organization?Quote:
Originally Posted by Slüdge
Are you a life member of the NACD?
???
I love the wet caves, and agree with the tenets of the CDS. I have zero interest in dry caves.
Just like I love to watch baseball, but have no desire to watch soccer. I love "Jeopardy!" but have no interest in "Wheel of Fortune."
I was a dry caver and NSS member before starting cave diving. I'd continue to be an NSS member even if a CDS-only membership were an option. That being said, I think that a CDS-only membership for people who are interested only in cave diving is a good idea - might bring in some more members.
Mike
Member of NSS, NSS-CDS, NACD, and NRA
Ditto...Quote:
Originally Posted by Slüdge
The NSS is an organization of cavers. Not "dry" vs "wet. If you want to be a member of an organization of just cave divers, the NACD is that. I repeat my question, are you a life member of the NACD? The reason I ask is your statement that you would become a life member of the CDS if it were not for requiring NSS membership.Quote:
Originally Posted by Slüdge
Sections of the NSS is a group of members. How could you be a member of the subset without being a member of the whole?Quote:
Originally Posted by http://caves.org/io/
x3 - I would also join for life. And before you ask, no, I am not a lifetime NACD member (for several reasons that have nothing to do with this poll/thread).Quote:
Originally Posted by netmage
I know divers who only renew when they want to either go to a conference, or dive CDS properties.
Ditto.Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc Bryan
Why are WE the subset?Quote:
Originally Posted by rblackburn
Let's make CDS the primary organisation, and have a section called "potential future divesite section" that explores dry caves.
The money spent on membership is such a small thing and it really does keep the caves open to us. Those who are active members, volunteering their time and talents, are dependent on the dues from the inactive members. It's not just nice magazines in the mail, but stairs, boardwalks, access, tables, and all the PR to state authorities, landowners, etc.
I'd be a member of the NSS, CDS, and NACD without Cow, without the mags, without cool stickers to put on my truck, without conferences and workshops. Why? Because the work they do in caving and cave diving is worth the dues all by itself. Conservation, Preservation, Education, Training, continuing to support explorations and survey....
If you are not a member, I guess you have your reasons, but the paltry amount needed for dues surely can not be one of the reasons. Give something, anything. Maybe if you can't or won't be a member of one or more organizations, then contribute time and talent? Make a donation to a special project once in awhile....
The NACD has some worthy projects you can donate to (see the website) - like helping us get money for more Water Quality Test Kits so we can expand the caves/springs that are being tested with results posted for all to see (member or not) on the website. Check out it and send a Check!
-skip
Quote:
Originally Posted by aainslie
I for forming the "Flood Mammouth Cave and Giving it to the Cave Divers Organization"
Anybody want to help lay 360 miles of line?????
Sign me up!Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelly Jessop
Where's global warming when you need it? Let's run a campaign to get everyone burning fossil fuels as fast as we can. That way we'll get our caves back sooner.
Quote:
Originally Posted by aainslie
Andrew I knew I could count on you. Now I depend on the mathmetician in you. If it takes us 15 seconds to knot 10' of line,how much time should we set aside to knot 360 miles-plus remember to add a beer run factor to the equation :-)
10 minutes..... to employ someone else to do it for me.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelly Jessop
Hours... of beer time watching them do it.
I would vote for an Australian beer...unless your name's not Bruce.Quote:
Originally Posted by aainslie
If forced to drink Ozzie swill, then I might do the knotting after all.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelly Jessop
Very well put Skip
Quote:
Originally Posted by skip
Give me some shine, or Jameson and I will sit with you both and watch someone else do the knot tying. Might even have to interject that aint the way to do it, or your doing it all worg.
SLIM
Are we planning on changing our bi-laws that will require a membership vote?Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelly Jessop
I know this question is more thank likely not sopposed to be here but do you have to be a member of the NSS-CDS to go to the workshop next month? Me and my boss are not members but would really like to go.
Because back in the start of the CDS it was an easy way to get a not for profit status. Also it was a good way to get National backing and support.Quote:
Originally Posted by aainslie
By the way, Alachua is owned by the NSS and ran by the CDS. They can always take it back...
Quote:
Originally Posted by J_glenn06
No, you do not need to be a member, and we look forward to seeing you at the workshop!
Thanks Bill!Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Rotella
Well I just love the NSS magazines.... I just don't have time to add more caving into my life as it's full already.
stunning photos..
LL
Yes - the NSS News has some great photography. That alone is worth the NSS portion of the dues. If you like, you can visualize the dry caves in the photos as being full of water.Quote:
Originally Posted by runawaylobster
Mike
Quote:
Originally Posted by MORGAN
You know I really feel sorry for those guys, we have full 3D access to all parts of the cave and they have to spend lots of time and energy climbing up and down :). But they do get to take some great pics with no water in the way. maybe one day i'll try it.
I just think that since the CDS is a sub chapter of the NSS then to be a member of the CDS you should also be a member of the NSS.
If it were not for the NSS we would not have a CDS. Remember just because you do not dry cave, you are still a caver. Why not learn about all aspects of caving. We all benifit each other.
With out the NSS, we might not be were we are at. Wheather you are just a member of the CDS for the UWS or to get access to some places, and not wanting to be a member of the NSS is to me just not right. We are just one big orginzation. Remember the CDS is a Nationaly orginzation thanks to the NSS.
SLIM
It is pretty addictive, just like the wet version....except there's unlimited gas and deco time. Granted, it's a "little" more strenuous at times (although you can stop for a break anytime!), but I can grab a helmet, lights, knee pads, and water...and be set for the day inside a dry cave. Just don't mention "how nice this cave would be if it were flooded" to the hard-core dry-only cavers...especially if you're not sure of the way out! :smt102Quote:
Originally Posted by runawaylobster
As for the original topic...the Cave Diving SECTION of the National Speleological Society is just that...a SECTION of a larger group of cave lovers...of all types. There is power in numbers, and we're part of a pretty big group. Being active in both the Section and the parent organization is a great way to help protect all the caves, and the access to them.
I have sometimes thought while clipping on my ascenders - if this cave was full of water I'd just take a deep breath and gently float up there without all this climbing. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by runawaylobster
Mike
Well said!Quote:
Originally Posted by sskasser
Mike
You know whats funny is that were the only Grotto that requires NSS membership in order to join.
So if the other Grotto’s “which are all Cavers” don’t feel the need to require their members to join the NSS why is it that the CDS “which is a mix of Cavers and NON-Cavers” requires it?
I have no interest in dry caves or the NSS, I am a Diver that likes to dive caves.
I would be a life member of the CDS if NSS Life membership wasn’t required.
The CDS is not a grotto, it is a Section. It is a different kind of IO. I think all sections require NSS membership.Quote:
Originally Posted by billyf
Why all of a sudden is there thoes that do not want to be part of the NSS?
I thought that in the Bylaws that you had to be a member of the NSS to be a member of the CDS, are there those out there that are not and it has not been enforced?
Why do CAVE Divers not want to be a part of the NSS?
SLIM
Because there are some of us that have ZERO interest in dry caves. LESS than zero. I would rather do yardwork than go into a dry cave. And I hate yardwork.Quote:
Originally Posted by SLIM
Some people's attitudes amaze me. Are you insulted that I don't share your interest? I have many open water friends who have no interest in cave diving. While I don't agree with that mindset, I got over it. Some people's attitude seems to be that if I went caving and learned more about caves, I'd soon love them, too. Not going to happen. My brother hates baseball. Should I drag him to some games and make him memorize some stats?
The whole question is whether the CDS should allow members that aren't members of the NSS. I say absolutely. When I first joined the CDS I received the NSS News and read the first few issues, almost cover-to-cover. Soon, I just dropped them in the trash with the junk mail.
I found out a few years ago I could be a "Basic" member, and that saved me a few bucks, by having them not mail me the magazine. But as I said earlier, if I could be a CDS member only, I'd get a life membership.
Kelly started it!
Yeah, he's always been an instigator! :smt079
I don't think anything is 'all of a sudden'....Quote:
Originally Posted by SLIM
I don't need the 'Sears Catalog' like directory in hard copy mailed to me each year, nor do I find much interest in the NSS magazines, and I don't have any burning desire to move into dry caving...
$1200 ($800 for NSS and $400 for CDS) for lifetime membership is a bit steep... when all of my perceived value is from the $400 chunk...
Heck, even if there was a 'basic' version of the life membership to the NSS, I might be interested in that...
I think the big thing people are missing about being a NSS member is that your are contributing money to cave conservation both wet and dry in various forms.
I love all caves so I naturally want to support the cave conservation orgs -both above and below the water table and a strong parent organization make the sections stronger as well. Some valuable Cave conservation data may get to many who have not had exposure simply from being a NSS member .
I personally have no issue in spending the equivalent to maybe one night out to dinner to support caves for a year-getting news/exploration/science and caving technique s etc in a nice newsletter as well.
One thing I cannot wrap my mind around is that if someone found diving in a cave interesting-how they could not find information about "dry" caves at least somewhat as interesting -seeing beautiful passages is nice etc and I see many cave dives I will never do but find beauty in the photos/articles..some may never dry cave but again if they seem to like caves underwater.how can they have zero interest in dry ones?
Not judging..I just cannot understand it.
Ditto ! Plus I have doubts that the CDS will be strong enough to stand on its own todayQuote:
Originally Posted by eramosakarst
Probably what is missing is developing the synergy of being part of the NSS ... But it's up to the members to tap into this opportunity, no ?
Thinking cave diving without the dry cave portion is a very limited view, that would limit the mission of the CDS only to Mexico, Florida mostly.
Most of the cave diving in other portions of the world are very tightly related to dry caving and dry caving techniques.
I believe that the CDS being a part of the NSS is a strength, and an unexploited opportunity today.
Why not require all NSS members to also be CDS members? It supports caving. It could help with research, science, conservation, etc....How can anyone love dry caving, but not love wet caving?
Sounds a little silly huh?
I agree completely!Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc Bryan
This is a thread on an Internet forum and most likely amounts to a hill of beans, but......
I have to agree with being a member of the parent organization for one primary reason. Strength in numbers. I think the CDS will have more clout in any ecological and conservation endeavors with local, state and national gov't if they are a member of the NSS. It's a resume entry that carries more clout than just a bunch of cave divers with a group membership of X, primarily located in Florida. Sort of like lobbying.... :roll:
Pony up the basic membership dues and know you're part of a bigger picture.
:clapper Well said!
so what is the differences between NACD and NSS-CDS, besides one being wet caves only.
What are the pros & cons? Why one over the other?
You are stating the point I was trying to make, well said.Quote:
Originally Posted by eramosakarst
Simply because the CDS is a Section of the NSS -- Cave Diving Section. A group of NSS members that have a similar interest, not the other way around.Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc Bryan
Thank you, you illustrate my point exactly. It is ok for them to not have an interest in us and ours, but how dare we not have an interest in them and theirs.Quote:
Originally Posted by rblackburn
NSS is a great organization. They do great things. I will continue to pay them the basic membership required for me to be a CDS member. I, however, would pay that same amount (probably more) just to be a CDS member. Then all of my money would go to funding the area I am actually interested in.
The CDS was created as a Section of the NSS, not the other way around. It was created a method to organize NSS members interested in cave diving. It was not created as a stand alone organization.
I think we are all aware of that. If it was created as a standalone we would not be having this discussion would we?
I am thankful that it was created, and continues to exist in whatever form. I just wish all (or at least most of) my money was going to the section I cared most about, not the other way around.
I am consistently amazed at how similar the two are. Sometimes it's as if they are siamese twins! I have no idea why there are two organizations, except that different people had different ideas about how best to proceed - one group was interested in caving and diving sumps and totally submerged caves, while one group was interested only in submerged caves. Or maybe one group of people broke into two groups due to disagreements on how best to proceed (in terms of training requirements, etc., member dues, organization, etc.).Quote:
Originally Posted by atedeschi
My understanding is that Sheck (interested and involved in all things cave) went to the NSS to establish the cave diving section (CDS). The NACD was already around, having been founded earlier. I have no idea why Sheck would think another organization was needed other than a sense that the NSS is a proper home for those interested in caves.
I don't think there are pros and cons that differ between CDS and NACD, except small political things like you must be active in volunteering before you can run for a board position (recent change, NACD). It would not bother me one bit to see them merge into a single entity either within or without the NSS (i'd stick with my NSS membership even without the CDS as part of it).
-skip
I agree with this. I jut don't like the fact that I pay more to be an NSS member than I do to be a CDS member (dry caves scare me). Either the NSS rate should go down, or the CDS rate should go up ;) The second one would be fine with me.Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc Bryan
~Jeff
Wow it seems as so many people are missing the point.
No one is discussing splitting the CDS from the NSS, the NSS is a great organization and we are part of it.
The discussion is whether the CDS should continue to FORCE its members and potential members to become members of the NSS in order to be a member of the CDS.
The NSS does not require Grotto OR Section members to become members of the NSS in order to be members of those Grotto/Sections.
I think a better question is: Should the CDS continue to force members to be NSS members in order to be CDS members?
I think we should remove the requirement of NSS membership but still promote NSS membership.
I agree. Excellent post. :clapperQuote:
Originally Posted by billyf
As far as I am concerned the majority NSS members DO have an interest in cave diving and a portion of what ALL NSS members pay for dues etc does go to the NSS-CDS through the structure of the parent organization alone. I may be wrong but this is my perception
I also believe funds for cave diving/dry caving expeditions around the world have come from the NSS on occasion as well as the NSS CDS.I think the extra charges for CDS membership allow even more specific support of cave diving on top of support already created by the NSS itself-this may be required as there is a LOT more dry caving projects to support and basic membership may not cover extra projects. Cave diving articles and reports are in the NSS newsletter (of course not specifically as the UWS does that) so I do believe there is a -cross the board interest in cave diving or the content would drop out due to lack of interest.
I think if you go back historically-The NSS has given a lot in money-support -infrastructure to support cave diving and submerged cave conservation before it ever received benefit from the NSS CDS membership dues.
They are both great organizations and I am more than happy to support both as ultimately I support cave conservation and education- I feel I am well represented by both bodies.I also really appreciate all the volunteering involved.
P.S. If NSS CDS dues encourage/facilitate even ONE NSS member to sherpa to a sump - WELL worth it for that alone LOL not to mention the great benefits available.
reading some of the responses I think people feel I was suggesting everyone needs to love all caves..certainly not the case.I simply stated ...I... do ... so it makes wanting to join all the bodies easy. I would never feel forced to join becuase I want to support both.
I always realize people will have varying degrees of interest within any realm,what I don't understand (and I mean no inferred superiority if it is read that way etc I simply do not understand) how someone could like one cave type and have ZERO interest in others--lower interest I understand ..zero- I do not. Maybe someone can expand and help me see how?
I don't expect dry cavers to be passionate about cave diving as it is not their focus (although many are IMHO) BUT their membership in the NSS does help support cave diving - again IMHO
inversely I do not expect cave divers to have as much passion for dry caving - I would like to think that they all want to support one another to some extent though.
Laws created for conservation/education and progressive caving techniques come from all types of caves and benefit ALL cavers/cave divers/sump divers /speleologists etc
Be glad you at least HAVE a national caving body !
I am always in favor of fewer requriments and more promotion.Quote:
Originally Posted by billyf
-skip
APPENDIX D
(Refer to Act 64-145)POLICY FOR INTERNAL ORGANIZATIONS
Amended 03-15-08:27A&B, 03-05-05
4 B. Full membership in Internal Organizations shall be open only to members of the National Speleological Society.
I like cave diving, but have negative intrest in dry caving. Now mind you I have not been in a dry cave in many years, but I believe it all stems from my severe respect of heights (may be read as fear). One of my first experiences in a cave required me to shuffle along my belly to a point at which point the cave opens up into a large room and there is supposedly a ledge that I need to trun around backwards and drop down and TRUST that there is a ledge there. Now other people went first, but I still did not want to do it. I did it and survived, but I don't like stuff like that. I don't want to repell, be on a rope, a ladder, etc. I just don't like heights. I can't fly and I will hit the ground and hurt myself.Quote:
Originally Posted by eramosakarst
Now underwater is a different story. I can go in small bedding planes and feel like I have all the room in the world. I can go up to the top of a large room, swim around anywhere and fully enjoy the experience.
I hope this helps explain why I don't care to dry cave.
Cheers,
~Jeff
Maybe it's me, but when the dry caving magazine shows up I can't remember ever actually opening it up. I can't image walking, climbing, crawling, slithering, or falling inside some dark cave with a light on my head.Quote:
Originally Posted by runawaylobster
But when the NSS/CDS mag comes, and it isn't often enough, I'm through it by the time I get back to the door from the mailbox. Cave diving is the neatest thing !
I understand why people don't want to actually dry cave-maybe I am not wording it right.You also have no interest in any articles or photos about dry caving as well or just doing the actually caving.Quote:
Originally Posted by icestac
Maybe I have misunderstood, but isn't the NSS an organization that supports all caves - dry and wet? By being supporters of cave conservation (albeit the focus of some CDS members may be only on underwater caves), shouldn't we support an organization that supports all caves? It seems most of you are classifying the NSS as a dry caving organization. I don't see it that way. I see it as a caving organization and the CDS is simply a type of "grotto". Rather than being geographically limited like most grottos, the CDS limits itself to a particular type of cave. This is why I support the NSS.
I've done dry caving and would like to do more. But, like most of you, my heart belongs to the underwater caves. But I really don't see how the NSS does not support me in my true love. Cave conservation is cave conservation, whether the cave is air filled or water filled.
What Sludge said!Quote:
Originally Posted by Slüdge
There's nothing wrong with enjoying dry caves and there's nothing wrong with not caring about dry caves - to each their own. The point here is why should one be forced to join both if they don't want to. The NSS supporters are not helping their cause by pushing the "wet cave only" community to the NACD. If you want to provide funding to the NSS to support conservation of all caves, then go for it, but don't force others. Eliminating the dual membership requirement will draw more divers to the CDS.
Echoing what others have said, I too would consider a life membership if I could opt for CDS only.
My point was that people keep saying they would be life members of the CDS and support cave diving _IF_ they didn't have to join the NSS. My point was they same people were not life members of the NACD. There is always "I would if".Quote:
Originally Posted by Cali Knucklehead
Umm - but I am...Quote:
Originally Posted by rblackburn
Me too, as is the Cali Knucklehead......Quote:
Originally Posted by netmage
Safe diving,
Rich
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oister
Or conversly, why does NSS membership not include the CDS? Why is being an NSS member not sufficient?
I think it is funny there is all of this hub-bub about spending $80 a year to help cave conservation.$40 of that gets you into the CDS dive sites. How much do we all spend to dive a year? I think the NSS Policy for Internal Organizations answers any questions about requiring NSS membership. http://www.caves.org/nss-business/bog/Bylaws.pdf
Russel Oister
NSS#55703 Sustaining member
CDS Life member.
A life membership in the NRA costs less than a life membership in the NSS-CDS.....
Safe diving,
Rich
A life membership in the NRA costs less than a life membership in the NSS-CDS.....
"You'll get my dive gear when you can pull it out of my cold stiff dead fingers"
Nothing against the NRA, but you get more bang for your buck with NSS-CDS. IMHO:minigun:
-skip
I am a member of both the NSS-CDS and the NACD which is funny considering I am not a cave diver (but will be taking the cavern class soon). I do enjoy the publications I receive and reading about various explorations
Sean
What he said!Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich
Here's a free 1 yr membership to the NRA to boot!
OkQuote:
Originally Posted by Oister
So who violated CDS policy and allowed Russel to become a Life Member of the CDS while only having a Sustaining Membership to the NSS?
That (unfortunately) is not a violation as far as I'm aware. I was doing the same thing. I had paid off my CDS life membership right away but was "making payments" on the NSS. I finally decided to quit dragging it out and just pay the NSS portion off.Quote:
Originally Posted by billyf
I say unfortunately because the problem is that you can pay the CDS life membership in full and get a nice shiny plastic "CDS Life member" card when you sign up as a sustaining member of the NSS and then quit the NSS, still possessing the CDS card to show for access to all the CDS caves.
I have to disagree with you there....NRA membership is required to belong to the local range; plus Wayne and the boys at the NRA are what is between me and NoBama taking away my right to keep and bear arms......Quote:
Originally Posted by skip
My NSS dues are paid thru 2011Quote:
Originally Posted by mmcauliffe
I always thought the organization I paid my dues to was the NSS-CDS. A cave is a cave is a cave, doesn't matter what's in it. FWIW, I only dry cave now (and unfortunately not as much of that as I would like) but plan to maintain my CDS portion of the NSS-CDS dues because I believe in the mission of both the NSS and the CDS, which is why I opted to become a NSS-CDS member in the first place. Diving Cow, WW, that was just an added benefit.
Let's not forget that it was the rat bastards at the NRA that sold many of its members (the sport shooters/tactical match shooters/High Power/National Match shooters) down the river in 1994 when they did not oppose the assault weapon ban in return for some mushy guarentees to protect hunting for the mainstream Elmer Fudd NRA members. I haven't sent them a dime in membership dues since and I doubt I ever will again.Quote:
Originally Posted by Me
And let's be real clear that it was the Dems getting voted out of office in the wake of the 1994 Assault Weapon ban that is preventing the current dem majority from even considering another repeat of that totally useless legislation - not any posturing or threats by the NRA.
65 house democrates have in fact notified the President that they will under no circumstances support another assault weapon ban, no matter how bad he wants it and the Senate majority leader as well as Nancy Pelosi, a Left Coast senator no less, has also voiced opposition to any further attempts to re-enact the assault weapon ban due to a lack of constituent support and recognition that it is pretty much political suicide.
And by the way I am a Democrat - a law abiding non-criminally inclined democrat who likes handguns and evil black rifles with high capacity magazines - and I remain more than happy to vote out any democrats who'd seek to restrict my rights to own and use them. (Gun ownership that is, not ownership of politicians - I am totally oppopsed to slavery unless we are talking about tank sherpas - in my opinion a tank sherpa should come with a Full Cave card.)
With regard to dry caving - I tried it when I was younger. It is dirty, smelly, claustophobic, full of bats and insects, and is really hard work much of the time as the rules of gravity apply all the time. All of which severely sucks in my opinion.
I don't mind swimming through several hundred feet of bedding plane only 2 1/2 ft high, but there is nothing on the planet that would get me to do that in a dry cave.
As for NSS membership I am with sludge on that (as are apparently 57% of the poll respondents) as I'd prefer to only belong to the CDS even if the price for CDS membership were the same as the current NSS/CDS combination. I have zero interest in dry caving - so why be a member. In pretty much the same way that I am not intersted in being an NRA member as I have zero interest in blasting poor dumb animals that can't even shoot back, even if guns are a common ingredient.
On the other hand, if I could get NSS members with zero interest in cave diving to come sherpa my gear to and from Cow Spring, Friedman Sink, etc I could see NSS membership as being very beneficial to me! :smt079
Damn, be glad you were not at Roppel in 2007, you would have seen real cave and you would have seen numerous NSS & CRF members humping cylinders in and out. Even the disabled NSS members found a way to assist. A cave is a cave is a cave; the only thing that differs is one's true motivation for going in to start with.Quote:
Originally Posted by DA Aquamaster
2.5 ft tall bedding planes? Is that supposed to be a small passage or something? :smt102
No, but its one that is too tight for (most) people to stand up in, and swimming is a lot easier than crawling.Quote:
Originally Posted by DeWayne
A long 4 ft tall pasage is just as bad, as staying stooped over for long periods also sucks.
I agree with you regarding motivation. I am and always will be a diver, and I love diving in caves, but I am not and never will be a dry caver.
My left foot is paralyzed, so I actually do better in crawls than the big stand up bore hole passages, lol. I agree about those 4ft tall passages where you have to stoop; I always crawl when I can, lol.Quote:
Originally Posted by DA Aquamaster
I loved cave diving (even easier to scooter than to crawl) but it was the cave that always enticed me. Now that I can't dive anymore due to health issues, it's nice to know I can still go underground on occasion. It's all about motivation my friend, the cave is just a location to exercise that motivation.
Did anything ever come of this? My NSS renewal just came in the mail and I really don't want to rejoin the NSS, just the CDS.
First rule of diving, don't hold your breath. I doubt that this will ever happen.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slüdge
CDS stands for Cave Diving Section. It is nothing more than a *section* of the National Speleological Society.Quote:
Originally Posted by Slüdge
What we are working on is a reduced price for section members that have no interest in recieving the NSS News magazine.
If you want to help, write to an NSS Board of Governors director. You will need your NSS number to access the list. http://caves.org/nss-business/bog/Ta...0Personnel.pdf
If this link doesn't work, go to http://www.caves.org, then Business Pages, then Current Personal. Write to the directors, especially Bill Liebman, since he is opposed to the idea.
Just pay.
I have to say same as Oister, just payl, it is not that much. Yes it is a part of the NSS. Like I said before it is the NSS-CDS. Yes we are a section not a grotto. If you are only a member to just dive a few sites then shame on you and you should be a prt of all caving activities. SO you dont plan to go to any DRY CAVE or DRY CAVE events, it is still Caves and you should help with the NSS, they have helped us out with all the years we have had a privlidege of being a sectioin with them to help out.
If you are a member of the CDS and not the NSS and do not wish to be a menber, then maybe we can just let you all go and then you wont get the privlidge to dive the few sights that the NSS-CDS owns.
Just my thoughts
SLIM
The one problem I have had, for 3 years in a row, I got enrolled in NSS stuff, and they left off the CDS portion. I made sure I had checked the appropriate boxes and everything. Last year at the Missouri Workshot, Kelly took care of me, and all is good now. Thanks Kelly