Tank Rack in back of truck?

Hey all i am thinking about building some sort of tank carrier for the back of my truck for when i go diving. I will need to be abel to take it out when i need to. The tanks will be my set of doubles, 2 al 40s and some Al 80s. With The 80s will be for open water students also. So i am looking for something that i can use for my cave diving and tech diving but also use to carry open water students tanks. I would like for the tanks to stand up so i could have a little room for other gear. But i guess they could lay down also (just put the gear on top of them. So my question is anyone have or had something like this for travel? If so could you tell me about it or post pictures so i can have an idea at what im looking towards? Or should i just talk to the owner of the store i work at and get a small tralier lol? Thanks

This might work what do you guys think?

http://www.pvcplans.com/scuba.htm

Joseph

I had a tank rack...then I bolted boards to the sides of the bed and strapped my doubles upright to it...then I took those out and just lay everything down int he bed. If you want to save space, stack them all on top of each other near the cab, then you still have bed room for other stuff. No need for a trailer, especially with that few of tanks. I've carried up to 15 tanks in the bed stacked at the cab with plenty of room for everything else.

How difficult are you trying to make this? You can make racks like in my trailer in about an hour with a couple of 2x4s, a sabersaw, and a box of eye screws from Lowe's.

http://www.cavediver.net/forum/galle...6/imgp0132.jpg

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Originally Posted by JahJahwarrior

If you want to save space, stack them all on top of each other near the cab, then you still have bed room for other stuff. No need for a trailer, especially with that few of tanks. I've carried up to 15 tanks in the bed stacked at the cab with plenty of room for everything else.

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It's illegal to transport gas cylinders horizontally. If a DOT official sees you riding down the road, expect a hefty fine. (Or do you have a cover on your truck bed?)

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Originally Posted by Slüdge

How difficult are you trying to make this? You can make racks like in my trailer in about an hour with a couple of 2x4s, a sabersaw, and a box of eye screws from Lowe's.

http://www.cavediver.net/forum/galle...6/imgp0132.jpg




It's illegal to transport gas cylinders horizontally. If a DOT official sees you riding down the road, expect a hefty fine. (Or do you have a cover on your truck bed?)

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Do you have pictures of your whole trailer setup? Im kinda liking the deal you got going on. For my plesure and soon to be my open water students.

Russell- We've been pulled over before (my buddy was driving, and he was weaving back and forth while joking about how he was so worn out he couldn't drive straight, and someone called us in thinking he was drunk) and the officer didn't say a thing. I do have a cover, but I don't use it much (hard topper, cuts down on mpg), and my buddy has no cover.


It's definitely better to strap them down vertically and all, safer if you get in an accident.

Not by a cop. A DOT Enforcement Officer. They ride around mainly enforcing tractor-trailer laws.

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Originally Posted by Slüdge

Not by a cop. A DOT Enforcement Officer. They ride around mainly enforcing tractor-trailer laws.

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Russell,

I believe those rules apply to commercial transport of compressed gas cylinders and transport of compressed gas cylinders weighing 1000 lbs or more....you'd have to have sh@*tload of cylinders to get to 1000 lbs...

And if you are transporting that many cylinders you will need a warning placards as well...

Dive safe,

Celia

Just make a simple one. Does not take up any room, so need to remove it when doen. Here's mine and it works great.

http://forum.scubatoys.comCave Diver's Forum - Reply to Topic/241339-post16.html

I've been using a very simple pvc pipe tank control that works well. These can hold any size cylinder from RB 19's to oxygen/helium K cylinders without much hassel. The line running through the 2" pvc pipes is knotted between pipes to keep proper spacing. It doesnt get much lower tech than this. I've Rhino coated the floor of the entire van fore and aft so it helps keep anything from sliding as well. The bench system in the photos wont work well for your truck but it works great for vans. Lots more storage space for boxes, crates, rebreathers, doubles etc. on top of the benches now that the wheel wells are hidden. Benchtops open up for more storage. This vehicle dives 4 to 7 days a week out on old logging roads and no clanging tanks, or falling rebreathers. Hope this helps.

Brian

I use the same thing except I use those foam pool toys ..... funoodles ..... instead of pvc pipe.

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Originally Posted by JahJahwarrior

I had a tank rack...then I bolted boards to the sides of the bed and strapped my doubles upright to it...then I took those out and just lay everything down int he bed. If you want to save space, stack them all on top of each other near the cab, then you still have bed room for other stuff. No need for a trailer, especially with that few of tanks. I've carried up to 15 tanks in the bed stacked at the cab with plenty of room for everything else.

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15 tanks? That's it? Here's 14 tanks (four on each side, two in the middle, and two on the floor behind each seat) in my special tank hauler earlier today. The trunk is full of BCD's and regs...and I still have room for a passenger :smt081

http://www.cavediver.net/forum/galle...2/pict0557.jpg

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Originally Posted by DOT Title 49 - Transportation, page 597

(2) For cylinders manufactured before October 1, 2007, a cylinder
must have its valves protected by one of the following methods:
(i) By equipping the cylinder with securely attached metal caps of
sufficient strength to protect valves from damage during transportation;
(ii) By boxing or crating the cylinders so as to protect valves from
damage during transportation;
(iii) By constructing the cylinder so that the valve is recessed
into the cylinder or otherwise protected to the extent that it will not
be subjected to a blow when the container is dropped onto a flat
surface; or
(iv) By loading the cylinders in an upright position and securely
bracing the cylinders in rail cars or motor vehicles

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Celia, I'm not doubting your interpretation. This was what a DOT official told me about ten years ago.

when I was in mexico we used 2 ratchet straps and just strapped them (standing up) to the back of the cab and pushed the gear tubs up against the wall of tanks. I think we had 6 sets of doubles, 6 al80 stages, and 6 al40 deco cylinders in there that way in a toyota.

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Originally Posted by sskasser

15 tanks? That's it? Here's 14 tanks (four on each side, two in the middle, and two on the floor behind each seat) in my special tank hauler earlier today. The trunk is full of BCD's and regs...and I still have room for a passenger :smt081

[

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NICE!! But where does the scooter go??

Brian

is the bench box attached in any way to the van structure? any problem with it sliding around? I am looking at options for removable storage and also some way of securing doubles and singles in a (eek-it pains me to say it) minivan. (Honda Odyssey)

FWIW please make a way to secure those tanks especially in the back of a pu truck. I have been on the traffic homicide unit for many years. Every years, around here, someone is killed, or maimed, because of unsecure loads, ladders, wheelbarrows, 2 x 4's, etc. It only takes a second to change someone's life or their family's life.........and that will also change yours between, lawsuits and your conscience.

In my truck I have a very strong rope from one side to the other, near the cab, that all of my tanks clip to. This also keeps stuff from heading into my cab and hurting or killing me.

Hijack over.

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Originally Posted by Slüdge

How difficult are you trying to make this? You can make racks like in my trailer in about an hour with a couple of 2x4s, a sabersaw, and a box of eye screws from Lowe's.

http://www.cavediver.net/forum/galle...6/imgp0132.jpg




It's illegal to transport gas cylinders horizontally. If a DOT official sees you riding down the road, expect a hefty fine. (Or do you have a cover on your truck bed?)

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I would be interested to see how many people have ever been fined by the department of transportation for transporting any number of scuba cylinders containing breathable gasses for personal use, regardless of how they were secured. In Texas anyway, DOT regulations the state chooses to enforce are encoded in the traffic code. I am fairly certain that is true of most states. Things like taillight placement are not ticketed because DOT says that is where they should be place, they are ticketed because states have coded that requirement into law. The US DOT does have some regulatory power over interstate commerce, I am not sure they have any enforcement power, I would assume they use some other department. I could be wrong.


Edit: PSI provides a pretty good explanation of what HAZMAT is. You will see in their explanation that states make laws based on DOT guidelines: HAZMAT and SCUBA

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Originally Posted by mfascuba

NICE!! But where does the scooter go??

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I guess she would have to use the passenger seat :roll:

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Originally Posted by FW

I guess she would have to use the passenger seat :roll:

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Exactly!

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Originally Posted by LisaN

Brian

is the bench box attached in any way to the van structure? any problem with it sliding around? I am looking at options for removable storage and also some way of securing doubles and singles in a (eek-it pains me to say it) minivan. (Honda Odyssey)

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Both benches are bolted with at least four 1/4" toggle bolts that are bolted into the side of the van at different points. Also the 2x4 that runs the length of the side and holds the valve/shoulder of the upright cylinders is also bolted into the side of the van with the same type of bolts. None of this is removable without total disassembly of the entire bench system. At least that was the intention.

Safe diving,
Brian

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Originally Posted by sskasser

15 tanks? That's it? Here's 14 tanks (four on each side, two in the middle, and two on the floor behind each seat) in my special tank hauler earlier today. The trunk is full of BCD's and regs...and I still have room for a passenger :smt081

http://www.cavediver.net/forum/galle...2/pict0557.jpg

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Ha Haaa!! But where do you put the cooler with the deco beer at?

I've always like the stack them in the back of the truck method myself...

Has anyone ever heard of scuba tanks exploding and/or being turned into a torpedo while in a car accident?
I wonder about this as I too often carry tanks in the back of my Land Rover, and for ease of refilling them I usually put the valves facing out towards the back of the vehicle.
I got to thinking what would happen if someone really plowed into me from behind and one or more of the valves got sheared off...?
However slight the chance for this to actually happen I don't know, but I don't like the mental picture I get from what would happen if it did.

I haven't heard of it, but I have thought of it. I'm fairly certain if I flipped or got tagged hard from behind while carrying a full load...it wouldn't hurt but a second.

And Roger...you're supposed to be bringing the deco beer!!

I've seen a number of people hurt or killed over the years by unsecured items in a collision or rollover, ranging from a bowling ball on the rear window ledge to a load of logs that slid forward when a runaway log truck hit some ledges.

Never seen or heard of any highway mishaps involving scuba tanks.

When I'm driving long distance with scuba tanks, I lay them on the floor with their bottoms up against the front of my pickup truck bed and tie them in with nylon rope. Doubles on the bottom, stages & deco bottles on top.

If carrying AL80 singles I made a floor rack just like Brian Kakuk's out of PVC pipe & rope, cause they want to roll around.

But I happily drive around cave country and New England with sets of doubles just lying in the truck bed unsecured. So much for consistency.

Mike

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Originally Posted by WEPIV

Has anyone ever heard of scuba tanks exploding and/or being turned into a torpedo while in a car accident?

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Unless a tank is corroded, it isn't likely to explode in an accident. The same goes for valves. A sheared off valve won't release gas fast enough to become a "rocket". If the threads are stripped, ... well that is a different story.

Tanks will become torpedos, if they aren't properly secured to the vehicle.

I use a wooden rack, much like the pvc pipes or noodles, but made of 1x2's nailed to a couple of 2x4's. The 2x4's run from one side of the bed to the other, the 1x2's are nailed to them in rows with just enough room between them to nestle the tanks, which lay down. I got the idea in Bonaire. No picture available but it's so simple you don't really need one. I also tie them down (and the rack) using the tie-downs in the truck bed. With a topper, I don't/can't stand them up.

Although it takes 28 AL80's to reach 1,000 pounds and come under DOT regulations, according to my PSI book, "There have been instances where a driver was cited and the scuba van and its cargo impounded when violations occurred." No other details. Oh, and "...some local governments have broaden its [DOT regulation] scope to include...boats or vehicles carrying any number of cylinders."

I once remarked about my tanks in the back of the truck with valves pointing towards the back of the truck that they may shoot directly into the cab with me if I was rear-ended.... The guy I was talking to said he'd rather have large unpredictable blunt objects flying around than several small metal objects (valves) that would penetrate the cab for sure. Sounds logical and besides it's a pain to load them the other way around and makes it difficult to get fills without unloading them!

-skip

Think of the laws of physics and how they affect guns. force=mass*acceleration. When a valve is shot out (if threads are stripped, as FW says, for example), an equal force acts on both the tank and the valve. But, the mass of the valves is much less than the mass of the tank, so the acceleration of the valve will be much greater.

You see this in guns as well: the exploding powder puts equal force on the bullet and the gun. However, the bullet goes much further than the gun, because it has much smaller mass, especially when you consider that the mass of the shooter might well be considered to be part of the mass of the gun, as it must also be moved with the gun, the two are like a connected system.

Woosies. This is the correct way to transport tanks. Just get the local motorcycle club to help.

http://users.mo-net.com/flotilla6/IM...motorcycle.jpg

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Originally Posted by WEPIV

Has anyone ever heard of scuba tanks exploding and/or being turned into a torpedo while in a car accident?
I wonder about this as I too often carry tanks in the back of my Land Rover, and for ease of refilling them I usually put the valves facing out towards the back of the vehicle.
I got to thinking what would happen if someone really plowed into me from behind and one or more of the valves got sheared off...?
However slight the chance for this to actually happen I don't know, but I don't like the mental picture I get from what would happen if it did.

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The one and only time I ever transported tanks upright in my SUV probably saved my life (come to think of it I really should do that more often but it's a pain in the ass). Anyways while driving to NC I got cut off and ended up flipping the truck on it's side with 5 sets of doubles, 5 O2 bottles, 4 AL 80's and ~ 400 lbs of gear. The truck slid for 300 yards and when it came to a stop I was practically deaf from the sound of escaping gas (a couple of the bottles rolled open thankfully not the O2).

All the big stuff stayed in the cargo area but one of the valves on a set of doubles got ground down from dragging along on the asphalt so 3600 psi was being kept in by ~2mm of brass.

The real saving grace was that I had tied the doubles upright to the back of the rear seat in an effort to save room. Originally everything was just stacked up and I'm reasonably confident that if I had left it that way I would have been dodging torpedoing bottles as opposed to just hanging on for my life.

Probably the best part of the whole experience was keeping the firefighters who were picking through the wreckage of my truck from throwing bottles of O2 around...

Unfortunately the insurance company didn't want to cover the cost of getting 19 bottles hydroed.

Sorry for the blurry pic of the what was left of the truck... 2 hours later and I was still shaking :smt100

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Originally Posted by JahJahwarrior

Think of the laws of physics and how they affect guns. force=mass*acceleration. When a valve is shot out (if threads are stripped, as FW says, for example), an equal force acts on both the tank and the valve. But, the mass of the valves is much less than the mass of the tank, so the acceleration of the valve will be much greater.

You see this in guns as well: the exploding powder puts equal force on the bullet and the gun. However, the bullet goes much further than the gun, because it has much smaller mass, especially when you consider that the mass of the shooter might well be considered to be part of the mass of the gun, as it must also be moved with the gun, the two are like a connected system.

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You are right about the mass difference between tank and valve, but you neglected the mass of the gas trying to make that tank into a "rocket". Someone with more time than I have can calculate just how much acceleration that might give a tank :roll:

It gets really difficult to use simple math to figure out speeds of these parts. Yes, the mass of the bottle+gas is great, which will mean that the bottle+gas will accelerate even slower than if we ignore the mass of the gas. That's good. But, the valve might not fly all that far, because the force is only applied to it over a fraction of a second. Once it has left the tank, it has no more force acting on itself. However, the tank will continue to be affected by the force stored in the gas pressure until the pressure is equal to the atmospheric pressure. And, the tank+gas will accelerate faster as the mass lowers, assuming force stays constant. How will force change as pressure decreases?

Basically, strap your bottles down. :)

for giggles sake here is what mythbusters did with a bottle...

A tank in the back of a vehicle would not have much room to accelerate before it hit another object. I imagine in the bed of a truck it would just be loud, cold, and pin itself against the side of the bed or just spin around. In a car I doubt it would have much room to move at all before getting stopped by another object. I could see the valve doing some damage though as it would have much more force as soon as it came off the tank.

I think someone needs to donate a car and some tanks for scientific research.

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Originally Posted by scblade27

....I think someone needs to donate a car and some tanks for scientific research.

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If you shear off a SCUBA tank valve, it won't do that, because the body of the valve has a restriction that reduces the flow rate. Like I said earlier, stripped threads could be catastrophic.

I purposely put mine in the back of my jeep with the valve forward. My theory is that if someone rear ends me on the highway and the tanks go flying they started it, so they deserve getting the tanks heading their way. Fair is fair.

Mark

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Originally Posted by J_glenn06

Hey all i am thinking about building some sort of tank carrier for the back of my truck for when i go diving. I will need to be abel to take it out when i need to. The tanks will be my set of doubles, 2 al 40s and some Al 80s. With The 80s will be for open water students also. So i am looking for something that i can use for my cave diving and tech diving but also use to carry open water students tanks. I would like for the tanks to stand up so i could have a little room for other gear. But i guess they could lay down also (just put the gear on top of them. So my question is anyone have or had something like this for travel? If so could you tell me about it or post pictures so i can have an idea at what im looking towards? Or should i just talk to the owner of the store i work at and get a small tralier lol? Thanks

This might work what do you guys think?

http://www.pvcplans.com/scuba.htm

Joseph

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Trailers work fine for some applications and some trips. Right now as I write this I'm sitting in the soft bed after completing 4 days of Cavern/Intro. I passed - WHEWWWW, but anyhow, the trailer comes in handy for longer stays where you would normally have to pull your gear into the hotel. However, it's a PITA getting around town, fills at shops, dive sites etc. etc. Today I learned to just unhook the things and work out of the truck from the trailer. I think of single overnighters I'll just leave the trailer at home and put the stuff on the truck to save fuel.

It has it's place, but not the best for everything.

Here is mine below. More pictures in my smugmug site.


http://medicdiver.smugmug.com/photos...75_LA92X-L.jpg

Now it's time to chill with another beer and do something about these rather sore fingers. Lol

New Skin :)

Here is my tank hauler-

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Originally Posted by dnscarboro

Here is my tank hauler-

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SWEET!

Ken

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Originally Posted by bigken462

SWEET!

Ken

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Congrats on passing the classes Ken(and I'm guessing Rita too?)!

Here's one I made. It looks pretty good if I do say so myself.
It can be removed by taking out (2) - 3/8" bolts, it required no drilling in my NEW truck, and I've been able to strap 10 tanks in it (I made it to haul 6 tanks max., but could have layed it out and probably haul 18 easily)

Attachment 1126

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Originally Posted by dnscarboro

Here is my tank hauler-

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Nice!

I'll try to get some pictures of mine tomorrow. I went to take some today, but two sets of doubles are at the shop and it looked almost naked with the gaps!

I simply lean the tanks against the back of the bed near the cap and strap them in with two ratchet style traps that have S hooks at each end. Awhile back I had put large eye bolts in each corner of my truck bed to tie down my motorcycle for transport. Works great, straps are only a few bucks each, the tanks don't move an inch and when I pull them straps I have full use of the truck bed for non-diving activities (what are those?). I've often thought of doing something similar to what sludge or the other pictured posts have, but this is simple and it doesn't seem that much else is necessary for a pickup truck. Plus packing them veritcally like that creates a bunch more rooom.... plus as you have more or less tanks you can adjust as necessary and not be stuck to one type of rack configuration. Good luck!

sorry I don't have pics for ya.

-Matt

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Originally Posted by SuPrBuGmAn

Congrats on passing the classes Ken(and I'm guessing Rita too?)!

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Thanks mat,

Yup, Rita done well too! It was great to meet all of you this weekend. KP, Edd, Stacy, Kevin, Shawn, stasia and yourself.......thanks for the hospitality.

Guys sorry for the mini hijack. May post a new thread of Rita's and my Intro class this weekend.

Back to your regular scheduled program.....

Kenny

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Originally Posted by dnscarboro

Here is my tank hauler-

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Great set up! I live in D'ville as well. Can't believe we never met. We try and go down about once a month, but it becomes difficult with conflicting schedules.

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Originally Posted by Slüdge

Nice!

I'll try to get some pictures of mine tomorrow. I went to take some today, but two sets of doubles are at the shop and it looked almost naked with the gaps!

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You'll just make us drool....

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Originally Posted by MORGAN

I've seen a number of people hurt or killed over the years by unsecured items in a collision or rollover, ranging from a bowling ball on the rear window ledge

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Some of those injuries / deaths were probably more undeserved then others...

Any unsecured object can kill...even a passenger:

http://overlawyered.com/2005/03/upda...llion-verdict/

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Originally Posted by BobK

Some of those injuries / deaths were probably more undeserved then others...

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Yes - some were just pure unforseeable/unpreventable bad luck, others were Darwinian selection in action.

Mike

my son hit a tree a few years back. he kept coins in the ashtray which exploded out and embedded itself in the rear seat passengers' forehead! It wasn't deep or anything, but just stuck there until a policeman pulled it out. A few stitches and he was fine.

-skip

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Originally Posted by Slüdge

It's illegal to transport gas cylinders horizontally. If a DOT official sees you riding down the road, expect a hefty fine. (Or do you have a cover on your truck bed?)

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You know, this has been done for quite sometime by recreational scuba folks for some time, including cave divers. Is it truly illegal to transport compressed gas cylinders horizontally for non-commercial carriers?

Can anyone clarify? Note, the last sentence at the bottom from the Code of Federal Regulations:


From DOT rules:

http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-...1999&TYPE=TEXT


[Code of Federal Regulations]
[Title 49, Volume 2, Parts 100 to 185]
[Revised as of October 1, 1999]
From the U.S. Government Printing Office via GPO Access
[CITE: 49CFR177.840]

[Page 705-709]

TITLE 49--TRANSPORTATION

CHAPTER I--RESEARCH AND SPECIAL PROGRAMS ADMINISTRATION, DEPARTMENT OF
TRANSPORTATION

PART 177--CARRIAGE BY PUBLIC HIGHWAY--Table of Contents

Subpart B--Loading and Unloading

Sec. 177.840 Class 2 (gases) materials.

(See also Sec. 177.834 (a) to (j).)
(a) Floors or platforms essentially flat. Cylinders containing Class
2 (gases) materials shall not be loaded onto any part of the floor or
platform of any motor vehicle which is not essentially flat; cylinders
containing Class 2 (gases) materials may be loaded onto any motor
vehicle not having a floor or platform only if such motor vehicle be
equipped with suitable racks having adequate means for securing such
cylinders in place therein. Nothing contained in this section shall be
so construed as to prohibit the loading of such cylinders on any motor
vehicle having a floor or platform and racks as hereinbefore described.
(1) Cylinders. To prevent their overturning, cylinders containing
Class 2 (gases) materials must be securely

[[Page 706]]

lashed in an upright position; loaded into racks securely attached to
the motor vehicle; packed in boxes or crates of such dimensions as to
prevent their overturning; or loaded in a horizontal position.

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Originally Posted by sskasser

Any unsecured object can kill...even a passenger:

http://overlawyered.com/2005/03/upda...llion-verdict/

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A minor crash on July 04, 2003 caused the death of a mother by her 16 year old son beacuse he was unsecured (no seat belt) and he "bumped her" causing massive internal injuries ribs vs aorta. I had to tell him she did not make it. That really sucked for me, much more for him. If he had been belted in the car would have, only, had sideswipe damage and a blown tire from hitting the curb. Not a plug for seatbelts, well sorta, but if people can't hold on neither can bottles, scooters, or whatever may be there.