Training Time Expirations on certificates: Too restrictive or Just Right?

I am an Intro to Cave diver, and I have a question on the Expirations of Cave diving certificates. I have heard two schools of thought:

1 - too many divers would certify at Intro to cave, and just keep diving to greater levels (i.e., not staying within the limits of training)

2 - too many divers don't dive enough, and their skills become rusty

Now, I have a third 'school of thought':

3 - Some divers don't have access to caves so they cannot hone the skills they need to progress for the next levels.

My instructor (thanks, Rob!) sees enough of my FB bull**** . . . er, I mean postings, to know I am getting out to cave country and practicing my skills. However, I am not getting out there enough to become proficient for Apprentice. (IMO)

My question is, should the expiration be longer? Or is the current year (for those agencies that expire in a year) length good enough, and let the instructors deal with the outliers (like me)?

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Originally Posted by Jax

I am an Intro to Cave diver, and I have a question on the Expirations of Cave diving certificates. I have heard two schools of thought:

1 - too many divers would certify at Intro to cave, and just keep diving to greater levels (i.e., not staying within the limits of training)

2 - too many divers don't dive enough, and their skills become rusty

Now, I have a third 'school of thought':

3 - Some divers don't have access to caves so they cannot hone the skills they need to progress for the next levels.

My instructor (thanks, Rob!) sees enough of my FB bull**** . . . er, I mean postings, to know I am getting out to cave country and practicing my skills. However, I am not getting out there enough to become proficient for Apprentice. (IMO)

My question is, should the expiration be longer? Or is the current year (for those agencies that expire in a year) length good enough, and let the instructors deal with the outliers (like me)?

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Just curious, how many cave dives do you have since intro? Specifically, what skills do you feel are not ready yet for Apprentice, but are acceptable at the intro level?

The skills are the same for Intro and Full Cave, it's primarily a situational awareness difference as navigation gets more difficult.

I think a year is plenty of time. If you don't feel comfortable taking the next class after a year, then a day with your instructor to renew your current certification would not be a bad thing IMO.

NSS-CDS and NACD intro to cave certs never expire.

CDS Basic Cave expires after 18 months. I think that time is adequate.

IANTD doesn't expire either.
I don't have an issue with a 12 month or 18 month expiration.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jax

Now, I have a third 'school of thought':

3 - Some divers don't have access to caves so they cannot hone the skills they need to progress for the next levels.

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You can practice cave diving skills in other places besides caves. All of our cave diving so far has been in Florida, and we live in Vermont. When Tracy and I were Intro divers preparing for further training, we would go to a local pond that has a very silty and oozy bottom, run a line a couple of feet off the bottom about 200 feet from a rock pile to a sunken log, and practice laying line, tying in reels, using arrows, doing jumps off our main line, etc. We practiced picking up and dropping deco bottles and stages, and we also dove in rivers to improve our skills in flow.

We still do "skills & drills" dives between cave diving trips. Then when we get to cave country we take it easy on our first few dives and scrape the rust off our technique before doing anything more ambitious. When we finished full cave (NSS-CDS, with Michael O'Leary) we had 40-some cave dives and probably an equal number of practice cave dives in OW.

Mike

NACD Intro in Doubles expires after 12 months. You can pay for a single tank card before that year is over.

I assume the politics behind these sort of expirations are motivated by instructors looking to increase the number of students they certify. Regardless of the stated safety reasoning... "let's ban guns, for the kids."

Jax, just take apprentice. IMHO, each class was easier than the previous one. I find my skill improve the most when I'm pushed beyond what I thought I was capable of.

I don't buy into "can't practice skills because I'm not near the caves." A person can run reels and practice swimming 4 inches off the bottom without silting anywhere. Every time I get wet is a chance to hone skills. I do a lot of item recoveries at the lake. Gives me a chance to slowly descend and to hover for up to a half hour while looking for stuff.

IMHO all certifications should be permanent. There is no reason why every cave diver has to be full cave. Some divers only want to make short runs into tourist caves. Some divers would be quite happy with just a single jump and have no desire to do multiple jumps or circuits. We don't ask all open water divers to become master SCUBA divers. Why should we ask all cave divers to be full cave?

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Originally Posted by Jim Wyatt

NSS-CDS and NACD intro to cave certs never expire.

CDS Basic Cave expires after 18 months. I think that time is adequate.

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TDIs intro does not expire on OC or CCR.


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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jim Wyatt

NSS-CDS and NACD intro to cave certs never expire.

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PSAI Intro to Cave doesn't expire either.