Line "Beacons?"

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Originally Posted by TONY CHANEY

...Seems it would be better or less time consuming to: Look with light, cover light, place arrow on line, deploy reel and tie into arrow and look for diver, if can't find diver reel back to line, leave reel. Never was taught to leave the reel but it seems like a good marker. Thoughts...I am always learning and willing to do so.

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Actually, the best thing is not to loose track of your buddy in the first place :-)

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Originally Posted by hunabku

I can't see any advantage to placing a marker that does not give a directional reference in this situation. I'm open to learn why though.

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There are arrows all over the cave. A cookie lets the recovery team know where to start looking.

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Originally Posted by TONY CHANEY

Stop and look for diver with light, cover light and look for diver, place cookie on line, place arrow on line, check gas, deploy spool / reel tie into arrow and look for diver, if can't find diver reel back to line, remove reel, remove cookie, leave arrow, deploy backup light and place it on line. (also to some, place wet note or "REM").

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The only time you should be leaving the line you're on is if you see any signs of your buddy off the line. In some systems if you went off the line down every side passage you could be there for hours or days. If you see a passage that looks like an area where it would be easy to get confused and swim the wrong way, like a Y, then I might go look down there without seeing signs of my buddy such as silt or bubbles. But I'm not just going to go down every side passage looking. As for the safety, this is why I have always required 2 safeties, even before the NACD did it. If you run a safety down a side passage to look for your buddy but don't find him/her, then leave the safety behind to give your buddy a better chance at getting out alive. Again, this is based on only deploying a safety if you have a reasonable belief your buddy is down that passage.

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Originally Posted by rjack

I don't know how you can do calculations before getting in the water, the amount you have available to search varies depending on how much gas its going to take to exit.

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Exactly! And what I tell my students to do is calculate amounts based on ranges. If they are 200-400 psi from the exit they use X amount. If they are 400-600 psi from the exit they use Y amount. If they're greater than 600 psi from the exit they use Z amount. And in low flow systems you should know how far you are from the exit. If you start with 3600 psi and used 1000 psi to penetrate and you lose your buddy at 2100 psi then you're 500 psi from the exit.

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The cookie does nothing an arrow won't do.

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See above.

Or you could just say you were 'x minutes into the cave' or 'approximately y feet from the entrance' (pick your position of reference). I feel an arrow (with your name on it) provides some valuable info to your buddy if he does find the line. In come caves, arrows are many hundreds of feet apart. Not all caves are ginnie springs.

Thanks for giving your reasons for leaving a cookie RN.

I still don't feel that the benifit to the recovery team outweighs the benifit I would get from having a directional reference during such an event.

There may or may not be arrows all over the cave but how many of them have a backup light attached to them? Or my initials on them?

I have no intention of changing the way anyone does anything. Reading this thread did get me to change the way I do though. I had never been told to leave my light. If the unthinkable ever happens I see benifits to leaving it, so I will.

In my cave classes I teach to leave an arrow. The arrow has your name on it and if you have to tell a search or recovery team where to start looking you can reference your arrow.

The arrow is suggested so as to better assist the diver in maintaining a reference to exit direction.

If nothing else, This thread has certainly got me thinking. I would assume your most likely to lose a buddy in really crappy vis, as in a silt out and not in clear water? I can see real value in the light then, it might be visible to get someone back to the line, how many of us have been all over the line before we found it in a lost line drill?

having not (thnks goodness) ever been a lost buddy I would appreciate that and I would add my own arrow on exit just so it was known I found it and was on my way out