For the love of God man, use paragraphs.
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For the love of God man, use paragraphs.
+3Quote:
Originally Posted by SlowDiver
Three tips to LIVE / DIVE solo by!
Just a WAG (wild ass guess based on being a respiratory therapist): I could be that you were already in "over your head" in lacking the proper training prior to exiting your vehicle. You knew that prior to the dive. Not enought training, too many goals, trying new equipment under adverse conditions (zero vis, high flow, depth, distance, etc), prior two weeks of bad? situations coupled with being solo. You got worked and out of breath just getting in and laying line with the O2 tank and you never got "back in the game" from there on. I think that due to everything that you have stated you might have had a case of hyperventilation, over breathing your regs which can cause all the symtoms you described. i.e. breathing too fast, tunnel vision, nervous, anxious, rapid heart rate, blurred vision (not noticing the cave features any more), etc. Did you have a headache post dive? I was paired up with a diver during my intro class. Sounds just like what you went thru. The instructor and I were checking out the cave features on the exit after my buddy called the dive due to being low on gas, when I notice that he is almost laying on the cave floor, death grip on the line, pulling his way out as fast as he could, trying to "get the hell out of the cave." OBTW, he is now a hell of a better caver than I am. I do not rule out what others have posted and it could be a combination of several of them. i.e. hyperventilation coupled with being narked. Just a thought and I am glad you made it out and posted here about the dive. Thank God you did not panic to the point of no return.Quote:
Originally Posted by nkavallar
Well as far as Narcosis and CO buildup here is just another one of MHO:
Too many people are not experienced enough to recognize it. They have not done any working dives, never dove air deep enough or never took a deep diver or advanced class.
Back in band camp when nitrox did not exist an advanced or deep class REQUIRED you to recognize narcosis by showing the difference in motor and cognizant skills on air at depth.
Everying that went wrong on this particular dive were things, to quote someone infamous, "You were taught in diving 101".
I think many of us older folks who were exposed to air at depth, in cold water, limited visibilty and or when working hard (or just hard enough) learned to recognize narcosis and co buildup early in our diving careers.
No matter what the advances are in training, euipment and/or gasses when things go wrong or do not feel right it all comes down to experience, how you were trained, and how you can resolve issues. Back to the basics.
I always get the shivers when I hear, " I was disagreeing that the training part would have made the difference," You don't know what you don't know. "The Training Part" always makes a difference. And those without it seem to always think it doesn't.
skip
Thanks everyone for your input, I will take it with me and apply it to my future diving.
On the topic of getting narc'ed, is there a way to get rid of the narc effect underwater effectively?
Also if anyone has some good tips to improve breathing and lung functions, please feel free to share.
Thanks
The way to get rid of the narcosis is to ascend, or to use trimix. On air or nitrox, you're going to be about as narced as you are for the gas and the depth, though cold, low vis, anxiety, heavy workload, etc have all been implicated in increasing the effect or the perception of narcosis. CO2 retention also increases narcosis, and CO2 is quite narcotic by itself.Quote:
Originally Posted by nkavallar
There has been a lot of controversy about whether or not you can develop a tolerance to high PPN2 and be less narced. The current consensus, as I understand it, is that you can get used to being narced, but you're still narced. Just like a heavy drinker can learn to be more or less functional when drunk, but is still drunk. I feel great at 150 feet on air, when I used to do that, and it was quite a surprise to me to find that I was repeatedly checking my SPG and computer because I couldn't remember what they showed for more than half a minute. Narcosis, or at least the perception of narcosis, varies a lot from person to person and from dive to dive with the same person.
For breathing, relax, breathe slowly, breathe deeply. A good comfortable long slow inhale followed by a long slow comfortable exhale. The more relaxed you are, and the more effective your breathing pattern, the better your gas consumption will be. I always find that my RMV has gone up a bit for the first dive or two when I haven't been diving for a couple of months.
Mike
yes, it's called Helium used in Tri Mix.
It brings a new set of problems to the dance.
That actually for the first time in this thread makes me want to ask who your instructors have been, because at this point YOU SHOULD ALREADY KNOW THAT and have it in your training plan if deep tech/cave diving is your goal.
I'm curious, did you ever do a intro to tech or fundies type class? Or was it AOW to cavern to cave without?
Quote:
Originally Posted by nkavallar
I'm not going to comment on your trimix comment ... I was aware that ascending will help with narc but I was wondering if there are any other tricks to it (will just sitting down and taking a break help during exit, or just get out). My instructor taught us about narcosis and CO2 I just never experienced it before (I screwed up here, nobody else did). As to your other point; I went from to cavern from AOW without any other tech courses. I'm not sure what you're trying to do here, I screwed up which is pretty obvious - people do that even when they have been taught otherwise MY FAULT. I take the full blame for it, none what-so-ever is to blame on my instructor, dive buddy, school colleges, mom and dad and kindergarten teacher ... I don't want this threat to turn hostile. I'm admitting to my mistakes and try to learn from it while providing others a "don't do that" report. If you want to to argue let's not do that in a analysis threat - that doesn't benefit anyone.Quote:
Originally Posted by cerich
If you notice the symptons early enough, while you still have proper control over your breathing, what might help is to get rid of as much CO2 as possible. What I found works for me is to make a deliberate effort to exhale completely for 4-5 breaths, purging as much from my lungs as possible. Of course you can repeat that procedure if necessary.
My own painful experience is that CO2 buildup also leads to a headache, followed by nausea. Did you feel any of that during your dive, I didn't see you mention it in the report but am curious none the less?
About nitrogen narcosis itself, other than reducing the partial pressure, for example through ascending, there is not much you can do. Except of course minimize all forms of mental and physical stress one you notice the first symptons, which might help reduce the effects.