yah well, i said i was sorry, i just really was curious, ill keep my speculations to myslef
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yah well, i said i was sorry, i just really was curious, ill keep my speculations to myslef
There should probably be an accident forum separate from the main forum. Every time someone starts a thread in this forum to discuss an accident it becomes a mourning thread. People ask questions about what happened and everyone tells them it's out of place and they shouldn't wonder. Meanwhile the Mourning section of the population is constantly offended by any discussion of why or where or how. Meanwhile there are probably dozens of people who already know what happened but no one will discuss it for fear of offending any of several groups and, of course, to protect those involved whom we all care for.
Hey Gary, I know that the deco stop does that. I think you are looking at a basic difference in divers personalities. I personally don't think any accident analysis needs to be done by people without knowledge of the actual accident or until facts are posted. People do get feelings hurt and it is totally uncalled for since it is rumor and speculation. I think that most of the discussion you see posted on forums before facts come out is the equivelent to sabre rattling, cave divers saying 'look how smart I am', look, 'this will never happen to me', 'I am invinsible and ready for battle!' What I would really like to see is morning posts until the facts come out and then analysis and suggestions posted by people who are trained to do that. I find very little information that is usefull posted after accidents on the web. Accidents happen and they happen to good people. It's very sad but it's a part of our sport. Cindy :(
This article came out in the St Pete Times this morning regarding Judi's accident.
Racing for life, 130 feet down
By RICK GERSHMAN
Published September 29, 2005
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
WEEKI WACHEE - Deep below an algae-covered pond, Eagle's Nest is considered one of the most breathtaking underwater cave systems in the world. Its intricacies have alternately been described as challenging and dangerous.
Judi Bedard never made it to the dangerous part.
Bedard, 48, a registered nurse at Tampa General Hospital, was pulled lifeless from the waters at Eagle's Nest on Sept. 11. She was resuscitated and remains in critical condition at a Gainesville hospital.
The state Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission on Wednesday released its findings on what happened when Bedard and boyfriend Rudy Banks of Williston, both experienced cave divers, entered the water.
It was a standard recreational dive on a quiet Sunday afternoon.
* * *
Shortly after 4:30 p.m., they began a fairly normal descent, said the 52-year-old Banks.
Divers must breathe different mixtures of gas at different depths, so Bedard breathed from a tank of pure oxygen until she had descended about 30 feet. Then she switched to nitrox, a combination of oxygen and nitrogen.
About 130 feet down, she switched to her primary tanks, which were supposed to contain a blend of oxygen, nitrogen and helium appropriate for that depth.
They didn't.
Banks realized something was wrong with Bedard, who switched back to her nitrox tank. The two began their ascent, according to witnesses' statements to the commission.
That is supposed to be a gradual process, since ascending too quickly can cause decompression sickness, also known as the bends. It also can cause a gas embolism, the presence of bubbles in the bloodstream that obstruct circulation.
But they didn't have that kind of time. An error in Bedard's tank mixtures left her breathing almost all helium and almost no oxygen.
At 100 feet, she was unconscious.
At 60 feet, she'd stopped breathing.
According to Bedard's friend and neighbor, Tom Lenfestey, Banks was left with a terrible choice: If he ascended rapidly, the trauma to Bedard's oxygen-starved body could be enormous. If he didn't, she certainly would die from a lack of oxygen during the gradual ascent.
Banks, too, risked decompression illness with an immediate ascent.
He brought her right up anyway.
"He knew (he might get) the bends, which is very painful, but you can deal with it," Lenfestey said. "He had to do that."
Unfortunately, "it was the ascent that began a kaleidoscope of challenges, and the injuries under which she now struggles," which included arterial gas embolisms, diving expert Gregg Stanton, who had just completed a dive with a buddy at Eagle's Nest, said in a statement to to the commission.
On the surface, Bedard had no pulse. Her eyes were open. Blood and foam poured from her mouth.
Banks got the attention of Stanton, formerly Florida State University's diving safety officer, and his diving buddy, James Garey, who serves on the University of South Florida's diving control board.
Garey flagged down Dan Pelland, a Spring Hill resident who happened to pull up to Eagle's Nest to shoot photographs. Garey used Pelland's phone to call 911, and Pelland helped Banks perform CPR on Bedard.
Stanton and Garey lauded Banks' actions to resuscitate Bedard, but Stanton noted that Eagle's Nest's remote location and unpaved entrance made any potential recovery far more problematic.
"That the victim was brought back to a self-breathing condition is a tribute to the rescue crew, and in particular to Mr. Banks," Stanton wrote. "His cool perseverance working with everyone brought results beyond expectations."
However, the medical response was "hampered by limited supplies and transport options," Stanton said.
"Taking the victim in on a backboard in (a sports utility vehicle) with no IV drip was surprising, but necessary, while the ambulance and helicopter waited at the edge of the forest. A good 30 minutes - probably more - could have been saved and better EMS care could have been available had a recovery plan been in place for the Eagle's Nest dive site."
* * *
Fish and Wildlife investigator Stephen Farmer agreed with Stanton and Garey that three elements contributed to Bedard becoming injured that day at Eagle's Nest:
--The gas was not properly mixed in her tri-mix tanks.
--The tanks were not properly analyzed to ensure the right proportions of gases.
--The isolation valve - an attachment to the manifold that connects the two tanks - was incorrectly left closed and never checked to ensure it was open.
Banks, who declined to speak with the Times, told investigators he mixed Bedard's tanks.
However, the experts said, that does not absolve Bedard of responsibility for her equipment.
"At the site - before the dive - I do not believe Ms. Bedard checked the contents of her breathing gas. Ultimately it is the responsibility of all divers to test their own breathing gases," Stanton wrote.
"Had she tested the isolation valve, she would have caught that the tanks were not evenly pressured ... and probably would have looked for further problems, leading to her canceling the dive. ... I conclude that she did not complete the safety drills as per the proper protocols."
Banks remains disconsolate after the accident, Lenfestey said, spending almost all of his time at the hospital, Shands at the University of Florida.
Doctors were surprised Bedard survived the first 24 hours following the dive, Lenfestey said. Her kidneys failed, and her heart stopped several times following her removal from a hyperbaric chamber to treat the embolisms.
It's a tough reality for friends and fellow divers who know Bedard as full of life.
"She's high entertainment, just great to be with," Lenfestey said. "She's full of, well, everything."
[Last modified September 29, 2005, 01:18:
Unfortunately, this all jibes with what I've heard about the incident....minus some specifics regarding the mix. If true, it took many mistakes and lots of complacency to occur.Quote:
Originally Posted by girliegills
Mike
(1) I can't really agree that diving trimix at EN is a "standard recreational dive."Quote:
Originally Posted by girliegills
(2) When we do advanced dives at remote sites, we accept the added risk that we can't dial 911 and have responders on site immediately. Are there any ambulances that could handle the access road at EN, or is there any place a helicopter could have landed?
More importantly, is there still any chance for Judi to recover? I hope so....
BD
Thank you for the post from the St Pete Times.
I hope that Judi can recover at least to a level to live a somewhat normal life.
It is a tradegy that this took place, and the events that led to the incident should help to remind the "expierenced" cavedivers that complancy will catch up in the end.
Hopefully the reminder of this will save lives in the future. This could have happened to any one of us that "know" what's in our tanks without analyzing (like when filling at a known shop with banked gas).
I will keep both Judi abd Rudy in my prayers, as I know this would be really tough on me if the roles were reversed.
Her lungs likely will heal. The main concern is brain damage. None of us want to see her turn into another Terry Schiavo.
I thought I would post this link here. It was forwarded to me by some friends. If you can help please do so.
http://www.judibedard.com
Thanks,
Ryan
Thanks for the link Ryan, That was the best post yet!
Cindy