Cave Diving Survey

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02-11-2010 08:47 AM
FW

Quote:

Originally Posted by Puttzer

My link isn't sending in the survey response, as best as I can tell.
Hope the link is working for everyone else.

Wouldn't our survey comments be better directed if all cave divers sent their thoughts directly to the NACD?

Our board members should represent all cave divers and cave diving: not just a small vocal group as those that use this forum.
And I believe the board have voted on this issue a couple of times already.

I had to email mine in. You can also send your comments to any NACD BoD member. He has also posted the same survey on other forums.
02-11-2010 09:29 PM
RN

Quote:

Originally Posted by argyris

Which is?

Money talks. The agencies that want to limit their training to certain configurations will be getting less as long as they maintain that attitude. The agencies that are willing to see into the future will get the certification fees and income from selling student manuals. I don't believe that sidemount diving is only suited to a certain environment. It's a configuration people are going to so they can save their backs and knees.
02-12-2010 07:10 AM
argyris

Quote:

Originally Posted by RN

Money talks. The agencies that want to limit their training to certain configurations will be getting less as long as they maintain that attitude. The agencies that are willing to see into the future will get the certification fees and income from selling student manuals. I don't believe that sidemount diving is only suited to a certain environment. It's a configuration people are going to so they can save their backs and knees.

So I got you right then...
As ai said before "For god sake a cave instructor is mostly an educator and not a certification machine. We do not train for the money". Cave training should not be comodized.

However I agree with your comment that side mount is "a configuration people are going to so they can save their backs and knees".

So If there is a vlaid reason for sidemounting, yes I am positive with you but I suspect that the SM is developing as a fation statement these days specialy with the proliferation of training programs to OW divers. Some people want to use SM not because of real need but because they will look different.
02-12-2010 07:13 AM
FW

Quote:

Originally Posted by argyris

..... Some people want to use SM not because of real need but because they will look different.

The way it is going, they won't look different for long. It will be the backmount divers that look different.
02-12-2010 07:20 AM
argyris

Quote:

Originally Posted by FW

The way it is going, they won't look different for long. It will be the backmount divers that look different.

So we are in the peak.... Inevitably yes you are right FW.
02-12-2010 07:23 AM
DA Aquamaster

Quote:

Originally Posted by RN

I don't believe that sidemount diving is only suited to a certain environment. It's a configuration people are going to so they can save their backs and knees.

I agree.

My full cave instructor (very old school) was adamant that backmount was the way to go unless you really needed to dive sidemount. Whether he is right or not is not the issue, the fact is that many people are now diving sidemount for many different reasons.

Some dive it becasue they are seeing a need to dive in smaller passages, some becasue it is more comfortable both in and out of the water, and some just because of the "cool" factor, or perhaps because of the current freedom the configuration allows in terms of configuring it any way you like.

I think the last two are a bit silly, but arguing the validity of each of the various reasons does not change the fact that it is becoming very mainstream in open water as well as in the cave environment.

The end result is that people are going to start showing up for cavern and intro classes in significant numbers already comfortable in a sidemount configuration. Training agencies will have to decide how to deal with that. Moving them 'backwards" to a single tank is not an option and putting them in back mounted doubles is pointless as they would be less comfortable and proficient. It would also be pointless as they would in any event immediately revert to sidemount once the class is over, making it far safer to just teach them in sidemount.

The reality is also that more and more divers in both backmount and sidemount are going to be diving as team mates, at times with little introduction and no previous experience together. Cave divers need to know how to address that situation and the current training methods come up short in that regard.
02-12-2010 06:48 PM
RN

I agree, the cool factor is not a reason. Initially, I went sidemount because of where I live. Most of the caves in this area are sidemount access only. Backmount divers are limited to 4 caves in the area. As a sidemount diver, I can dive dozens! Another reason for me is knee and ankle issues. Carrying over 100 pounds of steel on my back isn't great for them. It's nice to be able to hand truck my tanks to the water and walk to and from the water without the additional weight.

I've been seeing a steady increase in sidemount divers since I moved to Florida. 3 years ago, it was rare to see anyone in sidemount. Now it's rare to see a backmount diver at JB and even Peacock has had about a 50% occurrence of sidemount divers during my visits there. I also have had about a 1/3 of my students in sidemount with a good number of the backmount students converting to sidemount after they complete their cavern course.

I think "old school" instructors are just cutting themselves off at the foot with their resistance to adapt to the changing market, as are agencies that are unwilling to change their standards. But this seems to be par for the course in the diving industry.
02-15-2010 09:09 AM
Expedition Divers

Thanks to everyone who has completed my survey! I am getting some great responses and I think your feedback will be very helpful. I would love to hear from more divers on this subject. If you have not yet filled it out, here is the link again.

http://www.surveymonkey.com/s/89DVKMB

Please use this survey instead of the one in the original post. Some seem to be having problems with the original.
02-27-2010 05:34 PM
MDS

Quote:

Originally Posted by DA Aquamaster

........it is becoming very mainstream in open water as well as in the cave environment..

I am in favour of getting OW divers off single cylinders and onto redundants for all OW diving. Whether it will actually happen................

Quote:

Originally Posted by argyris

Some people want to use SM not because of real need but because they will look different.

Shutdowns are greatly simplified with SM, no more reaching back like manifolded sets and if regs freeflow breathing can be controlled by turning gas on/off for each breath

Quote:

Originally Posted by RN

.....It's a configuration people are going to so they can save their backs and knees.

Sidemounts are a god send if you are short, the carry is also easier if your cylinders are separate til you gear up

Just my views only!
02-27-2010 05:56 PM
sskasser

What MDS said! :clapper

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