How Much Gas is Enough - Running on Empty (Ainslie)

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Originally Posted by LiteHedded

or choosing quality buddies is highly underrated?

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I have had some excellent buddies over the years, but most have either quit diving, or passed away :-(

While it would be great to have a regular buddy that you could trust your life with, that is very rare. One of the biggest hurdles is finding someone that is free to go diving when you have the time to go. The second issue if finding someone willing to make the same type of dives you want to do.

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Originally Posted by Xenia

As much as Bobby is more experienced than me, I doubt him all the time. That's what he has taught me.

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Maybe you better rethink diving with Bobby. :D

Well not really. We are actually talking about the same qualitative issue.

Everyone makes mistakes and that's where the redundant brain becomes important. If everyone were perfect 100% of the time, solo diving would be just fine, but that's not the case and no matter how experienced a diver is, a mistake can be made. When that happens the redundant brain comes into play.

The qualitative difference I am talking about is not perfection but rather a low incidence of mistakes. If you and your buddy are both solid and seldom make a mistake the odds of both of you making the same error and being confused in the same situation are very,very low and the redundancy will work to correct the error.

If someone is a consistent cluster ****, makes serious life threatening mistakes even on a very infrequent basis, or has such limited executive control that they cannot stop, comunicate, consider they may be mistaken, and successfully resolve the issue, then I'm not diving with that person. Or at best I will dive with them in a group of four as two teams of two with that person on the other team.

In this case the important thing is not that Bobby was wrong, but rather than Bobby is not mistaken all that often - the consistenly high performance is what is important, not perfection.

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Originally Posted by FW

While it would be great to have a regular buddy that you could trust your life with, that is very rare.

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That's where Xenia and I both agree we are very fortunate.

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Originally Posted by FW

I have had some excellent buddies over the years, but most have either quit diving, or passed away :-(

While it would be great to have a regular buddy that you could trust your life with, that is very rare. One of the biggest hurdles is finding someone that is free to go diving when you have the time to go. The second issue if finding someone willing to make the same type of dives you want to do.

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i totally agree. and I've been quite fortunate in that way.
I think the tough call for a lot of people is just not to go diving. it's a valid option. and the correct one in many circumstances IMO

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Originally Posted by FW

Careful there mate! I have had buddies going the wrong way, and they wouldn't accept any input. I actually had to tackle one buddy, and drag her in the right direction. She was going upstream in Devil's Eye, on goldline, passing arrows, and still thought it was the way out.

Another buddy was heading down a dead-end passage, and wouldn't believe me that it was wrong. Since it wasn't far to the end, I just followed him to the EOL. Then he gave up, and followed me out.

The "redundant brain" concept is highly overated.

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Sounds like the redundant brain concept worked out quite well for the buddy of yours at the Eye.

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Originally Posted by PfcAJ

Sounds like the redundant brain concept worked out quite well for the buddy of yours at the Eye.

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Hmm, the question is, did she have one of her own?

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Originally Posted by DA Aquamaster

I agree

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Holy hell.

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Originally Posted by DA Aquamaster

It could have been said with a bit more grace and tact, but I agree completely.

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It was meant to stir the pot. Besides, Andrew knows I enjoy picking at him because he's one of the few that will push back with an opposing, yet well thought out viewpoint.

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Originally Posted by Xenia

I disagree. Dive at Kitty, 3 weeks ago, with my most trusted team member, Bobby. We communicate to play around, I had seen the T to two sinkholes, he had not. So he goes up to our entrance sinkhole (Kitty) then turns back. We surface on the other sinkhole and he says: this is not right, it is not where we came from. I thought he was playing and wanted to check the other sink. He was confused. I did not trust him, said we should go back to the other hole. Apparently I was right.

Everyone can get confused. As much as Bobby is more experienced than me, I doubt him all the time. That's what he has taught me.

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*caugh* I bet someone didn't use a cookie *caugh* ...I've made this same mistake, same cave, and I bet we each messed up for the same reason. I got lazy and it was really close to OW.

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Originally Posted by jj1987

Holy hell.

It was meant to stir the pot. Besides, Andrew knows I enjoy picking at him because he's one of the few that will push back with an opposing, yet well thought out viewpoint.

*caugh* I bet someone didn't use a cookie *caugh* ...I've made this same mistake, same cave, and I bet we each messed up for the same reason. I got lazy and it was really close to OW.

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Urban Dictionary: Caugh

The sound a gopher makes when it simultaneously coughs and laughs while surrounded by future legal scholars.
www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Caugh -

James, it is true we did not use a cookie on this specific T. We used on the other two Ts. Bobby did not see that T, I did but did not think to use a cookie, because I also noticed that part of the T connected to sinkhole. You have a point though, a cookie would be useful there. I was leading the dive.

Larry, yes we are in agreement. Quality is important. BTW I make mistakes much more often than Bobby... I just like to brag when he makes one because it is rare. ;)

I love diving with him not because we are a couple, but because we are used to each others diving, organization, mistakes, communication, everything is smoother... and he is reliable, I know he won't blow thirds, he knows for sure I won't do this and several other little or bigger things.

I appreciate the experience diving with other people, I try to do this often but if I haven't been in the caves for a while I would rather dive with my regular team mate because I know it is going to be enjoyable.

I just got through doing a week of cave diving with someone I very much respect, and some time early in the week, he made a statement that took me a little aback at first: "If we turn the dive on gas, the dive wasn't planned well enough." I continued to think about that idea throughout the week, and the more I thought about it, the more sense it made. The further I'm going into the caves, the less attractive simple thirds is looking as a gas reserve. It's not that I'm worried about losing it all at once; it's that I'm worried that a mistake way in can raise gas consumption rates to where reserves just don't loom as large as they ought to.

I just joined the NACD, and probably won't get the issue with Andrew's article in it, but knowing what I've read from him in the past, I am sad about that. I am sure the article is honest, and the analysis is cogent and useful.