Cave Diving Research Survey

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Originally Posted by JahJahwarrior

For class purposes, no IRB permission was needed for research, since it was for a class. Professor vetted all the projects and as long as he was ok with it, you didn't have to get IRB permission separately.

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Maybe you are beginning to see the issue..he can't approve the research if it involves human subjects even just for a class, that is the job for an irb NOT the professor...the majority of irb work at our university is looking at student projects...the fact that you are taking it public just points out that the university made an error...after the fact irb approval does not work. Frankly you should not have mentioned it at all...what this does is make it public that your institution is violating requirements and it puts your schools federal funding at risk...hey i'm just the messenger here. The fact that they made you go through the irb before going public was a cya move. Did you actually go through the nih office of human protection certification process? I don't think so because you would not be making these comments...if you would like i will delete all this irb stuff and you can post the link to your class paper sans your irb comments...you are just digging a hole here and making your school look bad. A friendly ammendment....Bill

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Originally Posted by wingman

Maybe you are beginning to see the issue..he can't approve the research if it involves human subjects even just for a class, that is the job for an irb NOT the professor...the majority of irb work at our university is looking at student projects...the fact that you are taking it public just points out that the university made an error...after the fact irb approval does not work. Frankly you should not have mentioned it at all...what this does is make it public that your institution is violating requirements and it puts your schools federal funding at risk...hey i'm just the messenger here. The fact that they made you go through the irb before going public was a cya move. Did you actually go through the nih office of human protection certification process? I don't think so because you would not be making these comments...if you would like i will delete all this irb stuff and you can post the link to your class paper sans your irb comments...you are just digging a hole here and making your school look bad. A friendly ammendment....Bill

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Seriously Bill, a single unfunded undergraduate research paper by ONE student is making the 3rd largest school in the US with over 52,000 students, nearly $1.2 bullion dollar a year budget, and top 150 ranking from US news look bad? I know you and Gibby don't always get along, but that's stretching it! :roll:

Quick, somebody say something about scooter motors and let's really get this thing going! :-D

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Originally Posted by jj1987

Seriously Bill, a single unfunded undergraduate research paper by ONE student is making the 3rd largest school in the US with over 52,000 students, nearly $1.2 bullion dollar a year budget, and top 150 ranking from US news look bad? I know you and Gibby don't always get along, but that's stretching it! :roll:

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Actually, Bill is quite right. This is the world we live in now, like it or not. As it happens, IRB approval for simple non-interventional research like this is quite simple and relatively fast to obtain, especially if you get assistance from someone who knows the process.

Andy

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Originally Posted by jj1987

Seriously Bill, a single unfunded undergraduate research paper by ONE student is making the 3rd largest school in the US with over 52,000 students, nearly $1.2 bullion dollar a year budget, and top 150 ranking from US news look bad? I know you and Gibby don't always get along, but that's stretching it! :roll:

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Gibby and I getting along? I always thought we got along just fine. Don't listen to me, just ask the university general counsel. Again it's not gibby its the faculty, his instructor was probably dosing during the faculty orientation when human subjects in research was discussed. Many economists are not aware of the OHRP requirements because they do not often actually use humans directly in their research. Its not one students research but rather an instance in which the university failed to follow proper procedure and where it would bite is if there were a problem elsewhere in the university. Its just not often that you read in public about an after the fact irb approval...i wonder if they told the irb that the research was already done? At my institution we have stopped graduate student dissertation publications precisely because of botched irb's. Yes, Gibby's research was probably exempt but it is the irb's job to say so and it is still important that their be informed consent.

Am I to understand there is some regulation preventing someone from asking questions (survey) about activities people have already done?

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Originally Posted by gary;

Am I to understand there is some regulation preventing someone from asking questions (survey) about activities people have already done?

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Most surveys are exempt under federal regulation BUT most universities (including UF) still require approval for exempt categories.. The federal regulation is written in such way that it becomes a federal requirement if required by the university.

Federal policy on human research

http://www.hhs.gov/ohrp/humansubject...r46.htm#46.101

46.101(b)(2)

(b) Unless otherwise required by department or agency heads, research activities in which the only involvement of human subjects will be in one or more of the following categories are exempt from this policy:

(2) Research involving the use of educational tests (cognitive, diagnostic, aptitude, achievement), survey procedures, interview procedures or observation of public behavior, unless:
(i) information obtained is recorded in such a manner that human subjects can be identified, directly or through identifiers linked to the subjects; and (ii) any disclosure of the human subjects' responses outside the research could reasonably place the subjects at risk of criminal or civil liability or be damaging to the subjects' financial standing, employability, or reputation.

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Originally Posted by chimie007

Most surveys are exempt under federal regulation BUT most universities (including UF) still require approval for exempt categories.. The federal regulation is written in such way that it becomes a federal requirement if required by the university.

Federal policy on human research

http://www.hhs.gov/ohrp/humansubject...r46.htm#46.101

46.101(b)(2)

(b) Unless otherwise required by department or agency heads, research activities in which the only involvement of human subjects will be in one or more of the following categories are exempt from this policy:

(2) Research involving the use of educational tests (cognitive, diagnostic, aptitude, achievement), survey procedures, interview procedures or observation of public behavior, unless:
(i) information obtained is recorded in such a manner that human subjects can be identified, directly or through identifiers linked to the subjects; and (ii) any disclosure of the human subjects' responses outside the research could reasonably place the subjects at risk of criminal or civil liability or be damaging to the subjects' financial standing, employability, or reputation.

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Thanks :) and it is the irb that makes the exempt determination not the researcher and that takes place before the research project begins. Lets start discussing animal care and use next...my favorite story there is when the FSU mag lab got one of its big magnets up and they went outside and found a frog that they took back into the lab and levitated...that made the news and then holy hell was raised because that use of an animal was not cleared through the acuc....this thread is a ton of fun :)