Pull and glide vs ???

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Originally Posted by mmcauliffe

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Originally Posted by RN

We worked on reading the cave from intro through full. It came little by little basically as critiques on what we were doing wrong going into the cave. I think "reading the cave" is in large part something you need to work on through experience. An instructor can tell you what you should look for, but it takes diving to be able to really figure it out. There are a couple of systems that I dive on a regular basis and have figured out. I know the path of least resistance and how to maximize my dives there. This wasn't something I learned in the first couple dives, or even the 10th or 20th. There are also caves I've only dived a few times that I still have a lot to learn about. An instructor can teach you about SAC and RMV, but you need to figure out your own and keep tweeking it as your experience expands. In the same token, an instructor can give you tips on reading a cave, but you need to tweek it to your own diving style through experience.

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Well said...I couldn't agree more.

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Ditto !
I am still learning to read Ginnie (Devils).
But it is taking me less gas used thru the nassy parts. The more you "read" , the more you know. Experience and practice are great learning tools :-D
And listening to the more learned of our clan! (which I try to do as often as I can. I pick up some wonderful pointers from those with much more experience...Thankies to all)

Jeano Beano

Good Mentors are great to have, aren't they ?


Mike M

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Originally Posted by mike

Good Mentors are great to have, aren't they ?


Mike M

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Yes they are !!! :-D
And like I said , my Thankies to all of them.
I try to be a mentor myself , when the situation warrents it. But I'm still a pup , so I am much more the receiver. That's OK!
Always learning.

Jeano Beano

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Originally Posted by mike

Good Mentors are great to have, aren't they ?


Mike M

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I prefer Rochester Wide Bands.

I really think "pull and glide" should be a last resort. I've been doing a few dives with a camera. It's a freakin' monster - and when you use it "pull and glide" goes out the window:

http://andrewainslie.com/videos/harrys.wmv

Other than a couple of quick pulls with one hand going through the lips, there was no pulling there.

(Please excuse my rudeness when I overtook the phenomenally slow couple ahead of me at the beginning!! They drove me nuts.)

Pull and glide should NOT be a standard form of movement. One of the great pleasures of getting further back in Ginnie - Mainland is a nice example - is that the damage reduces quite a bit, and the rock becomes consistently dark with only occasional human paw prints on it.

Great Video.
I almost looked down at my arm where my VR3 would be to see how much deco I had to do. :-D

Mike M

Thanks Mike.

I have a very cool new video that I'm not going public with - but PM me and I'll send you a link.

Regards,

Andrew

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Originally Posted by aainslie

Pull and glide should NOT be a standard form of movement.

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I disagree on this. I think you use the method that's appropriate for the type of flow/cave you're in, and a lot of times, especially at Ginnie and other high flow caves, that's pulling and gliding, or pulling and pulling.

Brian

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Originally Posted by brianstclair

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Originally Posted by aainslie

Pull and glide should NOT be a standard form of movement.

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I disagree on this. I think you use the method that's appropriate for the type of flow/cave you're in, and a lot of times, especially at Ginnie and other high flow caves, that's pulling and gliding, or pulling and pulling.

Brian

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Why is it "appropriate"? The problem is that everyone has decided that if there's a white rock, it's "appropriate" to grab it and haul away. Then a chunk breaks off after a while... and so someone decides it's "appropriate" to grab the next piece. A little while later, the cave begins to look the way it does in the first 800 feet of Ginnie - white everywhere, debris on the floor, drag marks because people are too close to the bottom looking for grab points.

90% of "appropriate" pull and glide is more a function of the diver's poor technique and/or physical condition than anything else. My instructor strongly discouraged "grab and drag" . I wish we'd stop calling it "pull and glide", which sounds so very nice, and at the very least find a more pejorative term for the practice.

I once swam to 3200 feet in Ginnie. The only time we touched the cave were lips to past cornflakes, and again around 3200 feet, although even in those cases my instructor (largely though example) made it clear that grab and drag was infra dignitatis.

An interesting little swim is from Henkle to the end of the gold line. The flow is halacious - but a) there are not many grab points, and b) you're going to do damage if you do grab. So you either learn to kick, or you're screwed. And... believe me, if you can swim there, you can swim anywhere.

I'm not saying NEVER grab and drag. I'm just saying do it judiciously, and with full understanding that it has negative ramifications. Not, as on often sees, while swanning along the section between the keyhole and maple leaf, or in the roller coaster tunnel, or Hillier, or Hill 400, or all the other paw-encrusted area where no-one with any reasonable level of fitness should be grab and dragging.

And if the flow is too high for your level of fitness, there's always Mexico, or Peacock, or the other low flow caves.

A final point - I'm no uber ahlete - I'm 47, like my steak and beer, and exercise less than 2 hours a week. My doctor whines a bit about my laziness. So I'm not doing any chest-thumping here. Just trying to cut our caves some slack.

...Although a mandatory 2 mile run in under 1/2 hour as an entrance condition to Ginnie would be both entertaining and good for the cave!!!
:D

2 mile run ?

I'd be too exhausted to dive after that.

So I guess the problem would be solved then.

Only the strongest survive... I mean dive. :-D

Mike M