suicide clips?

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11-01-2006 07:26 AM
Jay

Russell,

It's an attitude thing. There is no reason to use a suicide clip. They make nice snaps now that are just as easy to use. I believe in being as consistent as possible in your approach to technical diving. All my gear for open water, wreck, cave all follow the same methodlogy the way things are attached, routed, etc.

Some people use the suicide clips for different reasons, but I don't want a new person to think it is acceptable to do so just because someone else does it. If they want to make that choice they should realize that there are alternatives to the suicide clips and by using the suicide clips they are stepping outside the bounds of their training and approach to technical diving.
11-01-2006 01:38 PM
Deep-Thief

Just to throw in my crap to the mix, I have never tested this reasoning but here goes. I was taught that the problem with suicide clips is that you can get a big line in that will then be too big to come out. Kinda makes sense in that going into the clip it is a taper and a rope could easily smash itself through and then coming out there is no taper. Just what I was taught and therefore I don't use them. They sure do seem like they would be easier to clip things though.
11-01-2006 02:56 PM
Tegg

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deep-Thief

Just to throw in my crap to the mix, I have never tested this reasoning but here goes. I was taught that the problem with suicide clips is that you can get a big line in that will then be too big to come out. Kinda makes sense in that going into the clip it is a taper and a rope could easily smash itself through and then coming out there is no taper. Just what I was taught and therefore I don't use them. They sure do seem like they would be easier to clip things though.

Never found a line in a cave where this problem would present itself.

I think that on this subject it is going to be "to each his own"...

If someone wants to use suicide clips, are you going to NOT dive with them? If so, then make sure to label that person a STR0KE. :roll:

Either way, there are different clips and they serve different purposes to different people. If someone wants to use a spring loaded boat clip or a suicide clip, then who cares? It is not on YOUR rig... right?

If someone asks why you use a particular clip, then tell them. If they choose a different clip it doesn't make them wrong.

If so, then maybe we should ask for certain people's blessings on the color zipties we use...?
11-01-2006 04:02 PM
FW

Actually, nothing is inherently unsafe, as long as you understand the risks involved with it.

If you make sure the gate is *inside* (towards your body) "suicide" clips usually don't catch on the line. If you get the line between you and the tank, it will still catch, but if that happens, you were already in trouble anyway.

Ken is right, in that that they can come off if twisted. Just make sure they can't get twisted.

FWIW, I don't usually use what most people think of as "suicide" clips, but the small carabiners a lot of sidemount divers use, have similar problems.

Bolt snaps can come off too. I lost several spools before I figured out how they come open. All you have to do is get the spool caught between you and a tank, and the snap will open against the spool, and you loose another one :(
11-01-2006 08:12 PM
skip

my training

I was taught to use bolt snaps that were large enough to put a finger through. This allowed the use of the opposable thumb to open and close it easily and with control of direction.

Someone also posted that the bolt snap can snag line under the thumb lever. True, but the same motion that attaches the snap also removes the snag quite easily; it's not a captive snag as with marine snaps.

-skip
11-02-2006 07:49 AM
Jordan

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jay

Russell,

...by using the suicide clips they are stepping outside the bounds of their training and approach to technical diving.

What!??? Phew, you could make a good GUE technical writer :smt019
11-02-2006 09:40 AM
Jay

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jordan

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jay

Russell,

...by using the suicide clips they are stepping outside the bounds of their training and approach to technical diving.

What!??? Phew, you could make a good GUE technical writer :smt019

It's not a GUE thing, Jordan. Like I said it is a decision process.
Which Training Agency advocates suicide clips or which Instructor advocates them. I do not think you will find one. Hence it is outside your training. It's just part of the decision process people have to make when they rig their gear or do their dives. Am I going to dive the way I was trained or outside those boundaries. A lot of people dive outside the boundaries of their training, but it should be a concious decision, not a whim because they saw some else do it or use it or read it on the internet. :) They should consider the alternatives and risks involved every step of the way.

That's why I gave all my suicide clips to TJ. :lol:
11-02-2006 10:46 AM

Re: suicide clips

I don't use suicide clips for diving. I use bolt snaps or locking screw gate carabineers. I remember seeing someone attached by a suicide clip that needed to be rescued by another diver. :roll:
11-02-2006 11:32 AM

http://cavediver.net/temp/boltmarineb.jpg

Don't remember getting any Marine clips from you Jay, but I'll take them. :D

Over the years, I've used all kinds of clips, and will continue to use different ones on my gear. Each kind of clip has its benefits and shortcomings. I've got all of them caught or snagged in line before. Probably the bolt snaps more than any because their knob sticks out. On very rare occasions, I've gotten line caught inside both the marine clips and Bolt snaps (the bigger ones mostly), even when they were facing towards my person. I have no recollection of any problems resolving.

Bigger fasteners (any kind) make for easier use, especially when wearing gloves, which isn't something you think much about in Florida.

Locking carabineers stink. Once, when I wanted to remove my sidemounted tanks, because I was nearly stuck and about to nomount through a low/tight crawl area, I could not because of the sand in it. I'll never use them again.

Regular carabineers had come loose and unhooked on me on a few occasions, so I don't use them.

Smaller bolt snaps work great for lights and 2nd stages, and I prefer these to the bigger marine clips there.

For my cameras, stages and anything on/off frequently, I prefer the marine clip since it is much easier to put on. Great for quick hookups since you don't have to 'open them', just face towards your person (and the d-ring) and press on.

In no visibility and tight places, when the line is likely next to you, everything is out to grab it... and I find the bolt snap knobs, grab it the most. Though minor if you can reach them, it gets annoying.

....

However, my advice to anyone new to cave diving, who just doesn't have the personal experience dealing with the different clips, is to follow the advice of your mentors (instructors and experienced cave divers) that do.
11-02-2006 02:47 PM
Jay

Quote:

Originally Posted by tj

http://cavediver.net/temp/boltmarineb.jpg

Don't remember getting any Marine clips from you Jay, but I'll take them. :D

I just clipped them off on you when you weren't looking!!!

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