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If someone else is asking you to post this in place of them rddvet it should be pretty obvious they shouldn't be talking about it and that neither of you have permission to post this stuff...
And if you have to question in your own post whether or not to post this thread that should've been 3 red flags.
The fact that the moderators wont take it down because it doesn't break any rules but breaks any and all morals is pretty sad.
I disagree as there are people on the team (I won’t attempt to say how many since someone will try n disagree) that think the info should be discussed as soon as possible but they are stopped from doing so because they’ll potentially be dismissed from the team.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fastest1
I received a couple of negative messages last night about this thread. The fact that your avatar says this is your first post makes me suspicious you’re one of those people with a new account. Doesn’t matter either way. I’ve had many more ask me to thank the person who requested this posted.
Removing the thread to not upset people has been discussed in depth with the mods. Whatever they decide to do is up to them. IMO this is one of the most civil discussions about a death in a while with much less speculation than typical. I haven’t petitioned anyone to keep this up and actually the opposite is true.
Thanks for posting information on the Ginnie incident. I've never understood why people want to withhold info and silence others. Accident analysis is super important and nothing you posted was disrespectful of the deceased or recovery divers.
He did say the monitor was dead , possibly from the batteryQuote:
Originally Posted by farmerted
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
It’s funny. The people who sent me the most unpleasant messages expressing their unhappiness with details being released are the same people who immediately text all the gory details of other incidents to their inner circle of friends but keep quiet if you’re not their buddy. They’re too clueless to realize that their “friends” then tell everybody they know (including me) and then the game of telephone starts where more and more misinformation and speculation starts. I’ve known all the details of all of the major incidents in the past 7 years immediately all due to the people who now want this thread closed because they can’t keep their mouths shut themselves.Quote:
Originally Posted by UCFKnightDiver
Thank you for the information. It has reduced the anxiety for me and my wife who are both beginning divers studying towards cave certification. The fact that the diver was doing some "extreme" things far beyond an intro dive (sidemount, silty passage, exploration, rebreather, etc...) helps us to understand why an incident occurred.
As someone who thinks 6K in small stuff isn't really that far back, and dives a sidewinder much deeper and longer than this dive, I would be very interested to ultimately find out what oxygen addition method was being used (needle, or factory, or other), what display was being use (NERD, Shearwater Wrist, or other HUD, or multiples) and if the display died during the dive or not (which we may never know.) A whole lot of people are getting into the sidewinder as their first rebreather because it is inexpensive, and easy to learn to dive and maintain a good sidemount profile with minimal training, unlike many other units. Knowing this, if we start seeing more fatalities on this unit, now is the time to change the training and social mindset around it. Right now, many people (including myself) espouse mechanical simplicity at the expense of redundancy, with the understanding that if something fails, immediate bailout to OC is easy and warranted, as the Sidewinder allows for carrying both OC bottles. The "recover the loop" mindset is less prevalent with this unit, because it is so close to diving regular sidemount. Of course, semi-closed is taught, but I would wager that few people actually continue to practice it as dive objective after training, with the preference to bail OC. The real problem is that fully manual CC diving is harder. There is no cushion if you get caught up with your camera, or survey gear. I will admit that I more than once have let my loop O2 get down to less than .2 on a manual rebreather (rEVO) and caught it, busy doing other things, usually near the surface, wearing a NERD. It happens. People with non-manual addition never get to this without a malfunction. The great price point of the KISS, puts the KISS machines in the hands of the people least prepared to deal with a manual addition, the first time rebreather diver, excited by the sudden new lack of time pressure at depth or distance. Despite all the pontification from dive instructors in the last week on the need for a HUD (I don't disagree) it may not necessarily have made a difference. Divers get busy behind the lens or the book, and lose track of their PO2. It's going to happen to everyone sooner or later, and some people wont talk about it, and some people who don't dive manual may never see it happen. Should some of this turn out to be prescient, my recommendation to new KISS divers is that you do opt for a NERD as your primary, or only, if you wish to go that way, and always stay afraid of the machine. That manual addition can and will fail you, and it will be your fault, and always when you least expect it. Be careful about getting task loaded with a manual addition rebreather.
I'm a "newer" sidewinder diver, first rebreather, and have been in the vicinity of this incident in ginnie. We did hours of scr in sidewinder training. People on here are saying there should be no o2 shutoff, that makes me wonder if they have a clue what they are talking about or have ever even dove a manual ccr or why they are even commenting. o2 shutoff is required for scr which can get you out of numerous bad situations (lost visibility, disabled computer, bad o2 cells, ran out of o2) without wasting precious gas. Maybe some people only do scr in training and never later think about it but that is ridiculous. I view it as a required life saving skill. And I can say that having done so much of it, it takes A VERY LONG TIME for your po2 to go from 1.20 down to death. You really have to be paying no attention whatsoever to the unit. You have to not notice that the o2 isn't making noise going through the system. You have to not notice that there is less gas filling your lungs with each breath (unless for some reason you weren't on minimum loop volume). You have to not notice red flashing on the computer and any audible alarm that was set (ted already said that the computer was functioning and only later died between the first sighting of the diver and the recovery). I turn my o2 off all the time. I turn it off simply because my po2 is higher than I want and I don't feel like wasting gas through my nose to fix it so I turn it off until it drops then turn it back on. I've forgotten it was off many times but only for 0.1 po2 or less because it just takes that long to go down unless you're changing depths in which case your eyes would be on that computer anyway.
This screams task loading and complacency to me not gear and training issue. Unless there was a silt out and o2 was off while doing scr and an incorrect number of breaths was used allowing o2 to drop too low in which case it could be a training issue or lack of practicing emergency procedures often enough. Unfortunately task loading and complacency gets to us all eventually and is a part of the sport so if that was indeed the issue, it says nothing bad about the diver involved and is just a reminder to us all that we need to fight to not let it happen to us but unfortunately in any "extreme sport", complacency can and does kill.
Also, we're all having discussions on hypoxia and huds and o2 shutoffs which probably has people pretty confused since no details concerning those things have been officially posted related to this incident only where the diver was and that bailout was intact.
If this was rebreather related, it could have happened anywhere. Doesn't have to be far from the entrace or silty.Quote:
Originally Posted by CaveSloth
Here you go.Quote:
Originally Posted by rchrds
Quote:
Originally Posted by farmerted